Ruben Loftus-Cheek

[Clockwork 1,794]

6 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Sure and next we can try Ross Barkley to see if he will come to the fore and be a good player for more than 4 games a season. Its not worth the risk. 

RLC has shown much more than Barkley. Your position is absolutely ridiculous, no one is suggesting RLC should be guaranteed anything, it is not a waste of time if Tuchel wants to give RLC an opportunity in pre season. It’s pre season, where we have seen many more inferior players play for Chelsea. 
 

RLC was very good under Sarri, and big reason why we finished strong toward the end of the season. If he get that RLC back then it is worth the time in freaking pre season.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

7 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

RLC has shown much more than Barkley. Your position is absolutely ridiculous, no one is suggesting RLC should be guaranteed anything, it is not a waste of time if Tuchel wants to give RLC an opportunity in pre season. It’s pre season, where we have seen many more inferior players play for Chelsea. 
 

RLC was very good under Sarri, and big reason why we finished strong toward the end of the season. If he get that RLC back then it is worth the time in freaking pre season.

that was RLC before his injury tho.

Both barkley and rlc are finished at the top level. if we get any serious money for either we will be very lucky.

[Vesper 28,801]

11 hours ago, Johnnyeye said:

we should never have played that stupid friendly before the Europa final in 2019, sadly RLC may never recover from this. One of the most ridiculous things this club has done in recent years.

 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

12 hours ago, Jas said:

Yes but RLC was known to have a dodgy back and fitness back then. So one would think Sarri would have not played him, especially given the pitch was an artificial pitch IIRC. 

Cant wrap players in cotton wool forever though. Or turn around and say why did the manager not rest him/play him because of the pitch. 

Players are gonna have to play on shit/artificial pitches at some point. You go and play a League 1 team at their ground in the FA cup you can bet the pitch isn’t going to be amazing or good at all. Or you play certain teams away in Europe again they may have these artificial pitches. 

It was the clubs idea to go and play a stupid exhibition game albeit for a good cause, when the season wasn’t finished. I mean why did we do that? 

1 hour ago, Clockwork said:

RLC has shown much more than Barkley. Your position is absolutely ridiculous, no one is suggesting RLC should be guaranteed anything, it is not a waste of time if Tuchel wants to give RLC an opportunity in pre season. It’s pre season, where we have seen many more inferior players play for Chelsea. 
 

RLC was very good under Sarri, and big reason why we finished strong toward the end of the season. If he get that RLC back then it is worth the time in freaking pre season.

Has he really? And even if so, not as if Barkleys a shining example either of a good player to compare him against considering he’s probably been in the paper for being pished more than people praising his performances since coming to the club.

The reality is RLC had a spell of games where he was better in the Europa League than the PL games more often than not, got some goals true enough and looked promising but I don’t think hes shown anything in the past 2 seasons that makes anyone think we need to have this guy in the squad.

What does he bring? Why should he be given a chance? Because he’s bigger physically? He doesn’t score or assist goals or even create chances enough to influence a game. Even then, he still rarely plays over 75 minutes in a game most weeks. He played 1974 mins across 33 games this season in the PL, Carabao Cup and FA cup. On average thats under 60 mins per game he’s completing. He played over 75 minutes in half of his games this season. 

If we want to strengthen the team/squad, he shouldn’t be in it. Neither should Barkley. They may get a chance buts its a waste of time. Sell both. Or will we just give everyone who’s done well in a Chelsea shirt for like 10 games a second chance? 

Edited June 27, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Tomo 21,733]

4 hours ago, Clockwork said:

RLC has shown much more than Barkley. Your position is absolutely ridiculous, no one is suggesting RLC should be guaranteed anything, it is not a waste of time if Tuchel wants to give RLC an opportunity in pre season. It’s pre season, where we have seen many more inferior players play for Chelsea. 
 

RLC was very good under Sarri, and big reason why we finished strong toward the end of the season. If he get that RLC back then it is worth the time in freaking pre season.

I think the point he was trying to make is both when at their best are very good, but it happens so infrequently its absoultely pointless trying to make any sort of plan that involves them in a big way.

Ruben had a run of form under Sarri after nearly the whole season being dragged to the touchline at any and every break in play to be given tactical instructions, he's a very talented guy but simply lacks the nous to make it at this level, when you see Mason Mount or even Conor Gallagher as a comparison the difference in their tactical games are astronomical.

It's the sake argument with Barkley really. If he played like he did vs the two Scouse teams before lockdown he'd be one of our star players, but he doesn't.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Tomo

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Cant wrap players in cotton wool forever though. Or turn around and say why did the manager not rest him/play him because of the pitch. 

Players are gonna have to play on shit/artificial pitches at some point. You go and play a League 1 team at their ground in the FA cup you can bet the pitch isn’t going to be amazing or good at all. Or you play certain teams away in Europe again they may have these artificial pitches.

The point isn't so much about not playing RLC on artificial pitches but more so about managing his game time, given his dodgy fitness and back condition back then. He had played lots of minutes leading up to that friendly. So god knows why Sarri felt the need to play him then when he could have given just the time to some other players instead. 

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

11 minutes ago, Jas said:

The point isn't so much about not playing RLC on artificial pitches but more so about managing his game time, given his dodgy fitness and back condition back then. He had played lots of minutes leading up to that friendly. So god knows why Sarri felt the need to play him then when he could have given just the time to some other players instead. 

21 players played that game. RLC came in at HT and got injured after less than 25 mins. 

I never understood any critics for club or Sarri about this game more than 2 years ago and even less that people are still speaking about it. CHO got same injury in the game so it happens. Just bad luck... 

When we had 17 days between games arranging one friendly was perfectly logical thing to do. You may say we could do it in London or closer but guess what, some of our players went to USA on their own, on free weekend just to see NBA game so it's not a big deal anyway. And game had a good cause. 

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

21 players played that game. RLC came in at HT and got injured after less than 25 mins. 

I never understood any critics for club or Sarri about this game more than 2 years ago and even less that people are still speaking about it. CHO got same injury in the game so it happens. Just bad luck... 

Just bad luck? It was entirely preventable because (a) it was only a friendly game and (b) in RLC's case, he should not have played at all given his fitness and back issues. He wasn't exactly a 100% healthy, fully fit player etc like the others. 

Even though it was for a good cause, the club got criticized because they arranged a friendly ahead of a cup final. They risked players getting injured and unfortunately, one happened.

20 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

When we had 17 days between games arranging one friendly was perfectly logical thing to do. You may say we could do it in London or closer but guess what, some of our players went to USA on their own, on free weekend just to see NBA game so it's not a big deal anyway. And game had a good cause. 

Are you seriously comparing the two situations? USA or not, going to watch an NBA game without having to exert oneself physically (e.g. playing the game) is completely different to actually playing a game!

[R2D2 368]

Maybe worth a try in pre season but I think he is done at this club, rather have more faith in Barkley than him at this point.

[Clockwork 1,794]

11 hours ago, Tomo said:

I think the point he was trying to make is both when at their best are very good, but it happens so infrequently its absoultely pointless trying to make any sort of plan that involves them in a big way.

Ruben had a run of form under Sarri after nearly the whole season being dragged to the touchline at any and every break in play to be given tactical instructions, he's a very talented guy but simply lacks the nous to make it at this level, when you see Mason Mount or even Conor Gallagher as a comparison the difference in their tactical games are astronomical.

It's the sake argument with Barkley really. If he played like he did vs the two Scouse teams before lockdown he'd be one of our star players, but he doesn't.

At their best at Chelsea, Ruben is miles above Barkley. RLC looked like he was on his his way to be a special player. He was a big reason why we finished strong under Sarri, going to Europa final and capturing 3rd place. You know a player is class when others are playing well, and he is able to stand out. Barkley at his best looked like a depth player at Chelsea. 
 

Naturally some players are better fit for some managers; Kovacic and Zouma were beneficiaries  from Lampard management and tactics, while Rudigar, AC, and Jorginho. You could also make an argument about Kante too, his performances were day and night under Tuchel and Lampard. Maybe RLC benefits the same way under Tuchel. It is worth exploring in pre season. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

10 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

At their best at Chelsea, Ruben is miles above Barkley. RLC looked like he was on his his way to be a special player. He was a big reason why we finished strong under Sarri, going to Europa final and capturing 3rd place. You know a player is class when others are playing well, and he is able to stand out. Barkley at his best looked like a depth player at Chelsea. 
 

Naturally some players are better fit for some managers; Kovacic and Zouma were beneficiaries  from Lampard management and tactics, while Rudigar, AC, and Jorginho. You could also make an argument about Kante too, his performances were day and night under Tuchel and Lampard. Maybe RLC benefits the same way under Tuchel. It is worth exploring in pre season. 

Oh give it a rest. Miles better than Barkley?

RLC's form under Sarri is the most overrated pile of tripe since the Oscar double vs Juventus bollocks. As if this small sample of good performances is enough justification to keep them after years of bad form. What is Ruben's best by the way? Aside a few goals against bottom half premier league clubs and Europa league standard opposition, RLC gave virtually nothing off the ball on a tactical standpoint. Zero. The Achilles injury set him back sure, but he was never going to be a player that would unlock defences in the final third or be a tactical component that managers love utilising. He offers nothing. 

Bloke can't get into a relegated Fulham's team at CAM and Fulham fans were begging their club not to sign him permanently. But yeah, let's give him a shot here. 

[Clockwork 1,794]

34 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Oh give it a rest. Miles better than Barkley?

RLC's form under Sarri is the most overrated pile of tripe since the Oscar double vs Juventus bollocks. As if this small sample of good performances is enough justification to keep them after years of bad form. What is Ruben's best by the way? Aside a few goals against bottom half premier league clubs and Europa league standard opposition, RLC gave virtually nothing off the ball on a tactical standpoint. Zero. The Achilles injury set him back sure, but he was never going to be a player that would unlock defences in the final third or be a tactical component that managers love utilising. He offers nothing. 

Bloke can't get into a relegated Fulham's team at CAM and Fulham fans were begging their club not to sign him permanently. But yeah, let's give him a shot here. 

I feel like I am on a crazy pill, it’s preseason for god sake. People really have issues with giving a guy a chance in preseason and letting the manager form his opinion. If this a controversial take, this forum has lost all sense. Seem like all the fair minded posters have left this board.

Before RLC injury, the Barkley vs RLC debate was dusted. Go argue with a wall.

[Tomo 21,733]

12 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

I feel like I am on a crazy pill, it’s preseason for god sake. People really have issues with giving a guy a chance in preseason and letting the manager form his opinion. If this a controversial take, this forum has lost all sense. Seem like all the fair minded posters have left this board.

Before RLC injury, the Barkley vs RLC debate was dusted. Go argue with a wall.

Put it this way, if he had no connection with us and we were linked to signing him after his last season at Fulham would you be keen?

The problem with your pre season idea is there's other players that have simply done more to earn that spot (and more crucially suit Tuchel's system better), Gallagher for instance.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Tomo

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

First couple of weeks of pre season no one from our 4 midfielders will be here. 3 on vacation after EURO and Billy on loan. So RLC, Gallagher and Bakayoko will fill the spot. Probably someone else as well. 

[R2D2 368]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

First couple of weeks of pre season no one from our 4 midfielders will be here. 3 on vacation after EURO and Billy on loan. So RLC, Gallagher and Bakayoko will fill the spot. Probably someone else as well. 

You missed the mighty Drink and Barkley.

[Vesper 28,801]

35 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

You missed the mighty Drink and Barkley.

aka The Alcopops

Edited June 28, 2021 by Vesper

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

8 hours ago, Jas said:

The point isn't so much about not playing RLC on artificial pitches but more so about managing his game time, given his dodgy fitness and back condition back then. He had played lots of minutes leading up to that friendly. So god knows why Sarri felt the need to play him then when he could have given just the time to some other players instead. 

Managing his game time? Cmon man.

He only started 10 or 11 games the whole season. If starting 10 or 11 games all season means you need your minutes managed (which btw he came on at HT in that friendly?) maybe theres more questionable things than why did Sarri feel the need to play him. Good job he doesn’t play in the championship also because the Saturday/Sunday then playing again Tuesday/Wednesday would kill him…..

The injuries he had were back related and he does his ACL. Its just bad luck, look at how he did it, he basically took a ball down under pressure, bumped into someone and stumbled over, overextending as he fell so regardless of pitch, how many minutes he played likelihood is it would of happened regardless in same scenario. 

The friendly itself, whilst for a good cause, was a very stupid idea but Sarri playing the guys who played was hardly an issue as we had 17 days between that and the EL final IIRC so they all had to get some sort of match minutes in and a game is 100% more competitive and intense than training sessions. 

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Managing his game time? Cmon man.

He only started 10 or 11 games the whole season. If starting 10 or 11 games all season means you need your minutes managed (which btw he came on at HT in that friendly?) maybe theres more questionable things than why did Sarri feel the need to play him. Good job he doesn’t play in the championship also because the Saturday/Sunday then playing again Tuesday/Wednesday would kill him…..

The injuries he had were back related and he does his ACL. Its just bad luck, look at how he did it, he basically took a ball down under pressure, bumped into someone and stumbled over, overextending as he fell so regardless of pitch, how many minutes he played likelihood is it would of happened regardless in same scenario. 

The friendly itself, whilst for a good cause, was a very stupid idea but Sarri playing the guys who played was hardly an issue as we had 17 days between that and the EL final IIRC so they all had to get some sort of match minutes in and a game is 100% more competitive and intense than training sessions. 

So what if he started only 10-11 games the whole season? The point is he had a dodgy physical condition that needs to be managed carefully and he played a decent amount of minutes towards the end of the season. 

That friendly was played just 3 days after the final league game of the season. Not sure how much of a difference playing the players in that game made a difference considering it was still almost 2 weeks without a game going into the Europa League final.