🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Gary Cahill

[The Skipper 20,609]

LOL...

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[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

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A little melodramatic don't you think? Chelsea fans in Peril over JT having yet another great year?

[DYC. 7,542]

I agree with that but I know for sure that JT can still give us one more year at the top. He's had a long rest this summer not being involved in the WC, he's looked good in pre season and looks lean and fit. I think he can give us one more season at the top for sure.

Fair enough. Hope you're right. Really want JT to lift the PL trophy this season.

[Barbara 15,149]

Yeah it wasn't a comment aimed at you, just seems the general notion around the forum that a new CB is suddenly a must because we didn't look solidly defensively on Monday, with a few saying JT must be replaced which I find ridiculous, hence my comment.

JT - Cahill, JT - Iva or Cahill - Iva as our 3 main CB partnerships this season is fine IMO. We can start pursuing a new CB next year where we can adjust the squad from the start of the season, it's too late to start shuffling around the squad now to bring in a non HG player.

forgot to address the first part of your post, I'm okay with our 3 CBs available and as I said many times, the only piece this squad is missing is a better quality second striker. My point earlier this morning on Iva's thread and last page were more about how we set up our defense than our defense having a problem. If we set up Iva as the leader and Cahill complimenting him, we're good. Either way I want Cahill to look more comfortable on the ball.

Common denominator being sideshow.

The guy's a freelancer, a mock-defender so unsurprising that we looked shaky with him

Ivanovic could be that main guy but they're few and far between which is why they cost so much. Hummels, Kompany (at his best) and Varane are the three that spring to mind in Europe at the moment (maybe Chiellini too, not Benatia though who again looks like a Carvalho rather than a JT). Vidic used to be one too.

We've just been very spoilt with having JT there for the last few years. He'll be a massive ask to replace.

Luiz had ups and downs during his time with us, but under Rafa he was our best defender... but I think we're better off without him now. He finally convinced me that he won't overcome his mental approach of the game and will do irresponsible things more often than I think a top club can afford.

I'm not sure I understood the bold part. You mean Ivanovic could do a job temporarily - let's say this season if we needed him - and then next season we should pursue one of those guys? I couldn't follow you, I guess.

And the last line of your post is absolutely true. We've been insanely spoilt with JT, not only technically, but the leadership, the commitment, the dedication. Everything about that man is absolutely fantastic and everything he's given to us during all his time here, but especially the last years is invaluable and he can't be replaced at all. We can maybe find a player to fill his shoes as a CB (even then it's hard because he's incredibly technical in such a way his weaknesses don't compromise his end product), but we'll never replace the leader, the legend, the captain. That's going to take a long time, if ever. It's not only about his attitude, but also who he is.

[The Skipper 20,609]

A little melodramatic don't you think? Chelsea fans in Peril over JT having yet another great year?

Melodramatic it might be, but too often have I seen JT written off year after year after year, only for him to come back and prove he's still a valuable asset, and I believe that trend will continue this year.

[Daniel1980 1,425]

Common denominator being sideshow.

The guy's a freelancer, a mock-defender so unsurprising that we looked shaky with him

Ivanovic could be that main guy but they're few and far between which is why they cost so much. Hummels, Kompany (at his best) and Varane are the three that spring to mind in Europe at the moment (maybe Chiellini too, not Benatia though who again looks like a Carvalho rather than a JT). Vidic used to be one too.

We've just been very spoilt with having JT there for the last few years. He'll be a massive ask to replace.

Nah, Benatia is the leading defender at Roma. He makes Castan play better. All Roma fans praise him for his influence and leadership on the pitch.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Melodramatic it might be, but too often have I seen JT written off year after year after year, only for him to come back and prove he's still a valuable asset, and I believe that trend will continue this year.

I don't think any Chelsea fan would be upset if you were right or wrong. He's been a long standing incredible player for us, if he continues great, if not who can be upset by what he's given the club?

[DYC. 7,542]

Nah, Benatia is the leading defender Roma. He makes Castan play better. All Roma fans praise him for his influence and leadership on the pitch.

True. I used to follow Udinese and he did the same for them.

[Namika 922]

I like the guy, he has his quality but I feel that a ball playing CB next to JT would take our side to another level. When we sit deep, he's very good no doubt about that (Semi against Barcelona/ away Atleti) but when we have to take the ball against a team that press the shit out of us he becomes a liability, he starts panicking, rushes his decisions and loses important ball. If you watch our game against Atleti at home last year you'll see how Diego run at him but not at JT (because he has no problem with having the ball).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Ivanovic can lead from the back, more so than Cahill. Remember Liverpool away last season, when Ivanovic had Kalas next to him?

If we're going to build from the back, Iva-Cahill partnership is very worrying. Neither can distribute from the back. Remember the League Cup semifinal against Swansea? If the opposition press them, we're screwed.

[Barbara 15,149]

If we're going to build from the back, Iva-Cahill partnership is very worrying. Neither can distribute from the back. Remember the League Cup semifinal against Swansea? If the opposition press them, we're screwed.

that match was completely atypical. We can't take anything from that. Iva was on spoiled drugs that day...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

that match was completely atypical. We can't take anything from that. Iva was on spoiled drugs that day...

I disagree. I think if we play that match a 100 times with the same lineup, we'll give away similar goals in 90 of them. In that very same game there were 3-4 close calls from both Gary and Brana. It's very simple, they both don't have great technique on the ball and they had their passing options cut down by Swansea. It was only natural that they end up losing the ball in dangerous areas.

Granted they'd have more passing options if we continue with the 4-3-3, but I still think it's a major disadvantage to have two CBs who are incapable of distributing the ball well from the back unless we play Drogba up top and have them hoof it.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I disagree. I think if we play that match a 100 times with the same lineup, we'll give away similar goals in 90 of them. In that very same game there were 3-4 close calls from both Gary and Brana. It's very simple, they both don't have great technique on the ball and they had their passing options cut down by Swansea. It was only natural that they end up losing the ball in dangerous areas.

Granted they'd have more passing options if we continue with the 4-3-3, but I still think it's a major disadvantage to have two CBs who are incapable of distributing the ball well from the back unless we play Drogba up top and have them hoof it.

In goal for that game was Turnball. In midfield we had Ramires and Luiz, and then Mata, Hazard and Oscar ahead of them.

A scratch back-four is always going to struggle especially with that type of protection. Give those two time to gel, under a proper manager in a decent system and they'd be fine much like they were in the Europa League Final.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

In goal for that game was Turnball. In midfield we had Ramires and Luiz, and then Mata, Hazard and Oscar ahead of them.

A scratch back-four is always going to struggle especially with that type of protection. Give those two time to gel, under a proper manager in a decent system and they'd be fine much like they were in the Europa League Final.

The goals that came in that match had absolutely nothing to do with who was in midfield or in goal. They came because of Iva and Cahill's inability to distribute the ball from the back.

In the EL final we played with 10 men behind the ball for the vast majority of the game; distribution from the back was not an issue hence why I originally said it will be an issue to pair them together if we're going to build from the back.

[The only place to be 11,313]

The goals that came in that match had absolutely nothing to do with who was in midfield or in goal. They came because of Iva and Cahill's inability to distribute the ball from the back.

In the EL final we played with 10 men behind the ball for the vast majority of the game; distribution from the back was not an issue hence why I originally said it will be an issue to pair them together if we're going to build from the back.

And who in that game was supposed to drop off and pick the ball up from the back four?

The goals came from uncharacteristic errors from Ivanovic but the problems lied (as usual) in the pivot. Building from the back sounds great but that ball has to go through the midfield too and theres' a reason Ramires and Luiz weren't picked often in midfield - they're shit distributors of the ball. Their movement is poor and they don't provide options for any of the back four defenders. It's why we played Lamps in the EL Final.

Despite that we actually created a lot of chances in that match.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

And who in that game was supposed to drop off and pick the ball up from the back four?

The goals came from uncharacteristic errors from Ivanovic but the problems lied (as usual) in the pivot. Building from the back sounds great but that ball has to go through the midfield too and theres' a reason Ramires and Luiz weren't picked often in midfield - they're shit distributors of the ball. Their movement is poor and they don't provide options for any of the back four defenders. It's why we played Lamps in the EL Final.

Despite that we actually created a lot of chances in that match.

It doesn't matter who was in the pivot (both Luiz and Ramires naturally drop to receive the ball). Swansea had the front two press our CBs and they had the first bank of four just behind them. Cahill and Iva simply don't have the ability to pick out the pivot players under pressure hence why they ended up hoofing it to no one in particular or play it back to the keeper who would himself do the same.

And we created next to nothing in that match. We could have played another 90 minutes and not score.

[The only place to be 11,313]

It doesn't matter who was in the pivot (both Luiz and Ramires naturally drop to receive the ball). Swansea had the front two press our CBs and they had the first bank of four just behind them. Cahill and Iva simply don't have the ability to pick out the pivot players under pressure hence why they ended up hoofing it to no one in particular or play it back to the keeper who would himself do the same.

And we created next to nothing in that match. We could have played another 90 minutes and not score.

We created 28 chances in that match. We had decent chances but Swansea got their tactics right.

What I think is myopic is to try and extrapolate too much from one game, with a dodgy midfield, a poor goalkeeper and a poor manager and apply it to the future performances of a couple of defenders.

I really shouldn't continue this discussion because we simply won't agree. I think Cahill is good on the ball (in fact he's always been fairly well-regarded in that aspect of his play by a number of coaches) and in the current system I'd be fine with him an Ivanovic.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

We created 28 chances in that match. We had decent chances but Swansea got their tactics right.

What I think is myopic is to try and extrapolate too much from one game, with a dodgy midfield, a poor goalkeeper and a poor manager and apply it to the future performances of a couple of defenders.

I really shouldn't continue this discussion because we simply won't agree. I think Cahill is good on the ball (in fact he's always been fairly well-regarded in that aspect of his play by a number of coaches) and in the current system I'd be fine with him an Ivanovic.

Then give an example of where they have distributed well from the back. Garry has a good shot on him but his passing is just about adequate for a CB, Iva is below that. JT is the exception, English CBs are not generally good passers, they're not used to playing from the back and Garry is the same. I would not have them as our main CBs for a prolonged period.

PS: For someone who "hates being patronized", you sure try to do it yourself a lot!

[Joker10 946]

Whats with the Cahill cristim? Am i missing something he was arguably as good as any CB in the PL last season and he started this campign with a good game. As for who in the Terry/Cahill partnership make who look better? They both do, Terry is benefiting playing along Cahill, Terry at this age is not mobile he very much helped by Cahill and his athletiscm who does more of the running between the two CB. Cahill is benefited by playing alongside Terry, who organizes the back four gives instructions to Cahill. Best CB partnership in the PL, and sure this season we will play more attacking and be less protected at times. But you look it another way that by playing more attacking you pin your oppenonent more down, and they will react to our team and play more defensive. Matic-Cesc-Oscar controlled that midfield against Burnley that haven't seen all last season. Those two combination will help our defense, and we might end up with less goals conceded this season.

I know Cahill had many doubters before last season, it seems like some don't want to admit they were wrong. Even though Cahill deservedly ended in the PL team of the season.

Ivanovic-Cahill don't work because of one game against Swansea? One game, yeah that makes sense.

[robsblubot 3,595]

Whats with the Cahill cristim? Am i missing something he was arguably as good as any CB in the PL last season and he started this campign with a good game. As for who in the Terry/Cahill partnership make who look better? They both do, Terry is benefiting playing along Cahill, Terry at this age is not mobile he very much helped by Cahill and his athletiscm who does more of the running between the two CB. Cahill is benefited by playing alongside Terry, who organizes the back four gives instructions to Cahill. Best CB partnership in the PL, and sure this season we will play more attacking and be less protected at times. But you look it another way that by playing more attacking you pin your oppenonent more down, and they will react to our team and play more defensive. Matic-Cesc-Oscar controlled that midfield against Burnley that haven't seen all last season. Those two combination will help our defense, and we might end up with less goals conceded this season.

I know Cahill had many doubters before last season, it seems like some don't want to admit they were wrong. Even though Cahill deservedly ended in the PL team of the season.

Ivanovic-Cahill don't work because of one game against Swansea? One game, yeah that makes sense.

Don't think that's the point of the discussion.

We are merely thinking ahead. We are considering, before it happens, whether our once successful CB pairing will remain as successful as Jose changes the system; whatever helped them last season (deep line, protection) may not be the same this time around. By the end of last season our defense line wasn't as sharp (results and goals conceded against nobodies attest to that) and I reckon it was because the protection wasn't as sharp either - they were more exposed.

Cahill's weak technically... His long balls are pretty poor, and he usually just doesn't every try them. He's got an OK first touch, adequate for a no-nonsense CB, but he's got to give the ball to a teammate ASAP esp when under pressure. These are limitations that can be exploited - it's never binary like some here say: solid non-solid/liability, mistakes vs no mistakes.

He's a good player, but hardly a top CB for me. Godin is twice the player IMO. I'd have gone for Godin instead of Luis, because for me Atletico's spine was formed by Courtois, Godin, and Costa. Their midfield was good too, but more about hardworking players than quality.