Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Blues Forever said:

 

So from having no money to sign Werner, Liverpool will now sign Thiago and Jota...

[Pizy 17,860]

I know Jota has been solid for Wolves but he has never really caught my eye as the type that was destined for a top club or who would become a top player. Considered him good but not great. There are about 3-4 other Wolves players that I'd have before him.

But knowing Klopp he'll probably mould him into a world beater like Mané & Salah. 😒

 

[Jase 43,479]

22 minutes ago, Pizy said:

I know Jota has been solid for Wolves but he has never really caught my eye as the type that was destined for a top club or who would become a top player. Considered him good but not great. There are about 3-4 other Wolves players that I'd have before him.

But knowing Klopp he'll probably mould him into a world beater like Mané & Salah. 😒

Just like he has turned Oxlade-Chamberlain, Origi etc into world beaters, eh?

[Vesper 27,310]

Just £5m up front – how Liverpool signed Thiago

https://theathletic.com/2070370/2020/09/18/thiago-joins-liverpool-how-the-deal-happened/

It all started with a phone call in June.

Thiago Alcantara was close to signing a lucrative new four-year contract with Bayern Munich, worth around £12 million per year (£230,000 per week), when his head was turned.

The Spain international was informed that Jurgen Klopp wanted him at Liverpool.

A friend of Thiago’s family told The Athletic: “Earlier this year, it seemed certain that he was going to extend his contract with Bayern Munich but then Liverpool’s interest escalated and this suddenly changed everything.

“The serious talks only began around three months ago with Liverpool. There has been speculation about Manchester United but Liverpool’s interest was absolutely clear and direct from the beginning. He’s been sure he’s been going there for several months.”

Klopp had long since admired Thiago and it soon became clear during their discussions that the feeling was mutual. The 29-year-old playmaker had been on the receiving end of Klopp’s Liverpool juggernaut when Bayern were dumped out of the Champions League’s last 16 in March 2019 after a 3-1 defeat at the Allianz Arena. A few weeks earlier he had been blown away by the atmosphere in a goalless first leg stalemate at Anfield.

Watching Liverpool’s march to Premier League title glory in 2019-20 had served to strengthen his desire to one day experience life in England’s top flight.

Having enjoyed a trophy-laden seven years in Germany, he informed Bayern he wanted to pursue a new challenge. That new deal was rejected and, having entered the final year of his existing contract, he knew the serial Bundesliga champions would have little option but to sell him.

When he said his emotional goodbyes to his team-mates at the end of last season he didn’t think he would be returning to the Sabener Strasse training complex. He had already put his house in Munich up for sale.

But Thiago had to be patient. He ended up starting pre-season back at Bayern after this month’s international fixtures.

Finally, early on Thursday, he was informed that the finer details of an agreement between Liverpool sporting director Michael Edwards and Bayern counterpart Hasan Salihamidzic had been completed. He again said farewell to team-mates and staff, and the Bayern manager Hansi Flick congratulated Klopp on signing “an extraordinary player and a great person”.

A source with experience of working with Thiago says: “He is a top guy and one of the most professional players in this world. As for Liverpool, it’s a dream come true for him. The dream for him for years has been the Premier League.”

By then, Liverpool’s club doctor Jim Moxon had flown to Munich to oversee his medical. A four-year deal worth around £200,000 per week was already in place. His favoured No 6 shirt was conveniently vacant following Dejan Lovren’s move to Zenit St Petersburg in July.

Klopp had secured the services of a man he regards as “a game-changer”. The manager had pushed hard for the deal to get done and ultimately FSG president Mike Gordon and Edwards delivered.

For Liverpool, it was always about trying to make the numbers work after revenues were hit heavily by the COVID-19 pandemic. They had long since known that Bayern’s asking price was €30 million (£27 million).

Until recently, their stance was that they would only proceed with thrashing out a deal if another central midfielder was to leave the club. Liverpool had been braced for a bid from Barcelona for Georginio Wijnaldum, who has entered the final year of his contract. However, with no offers forthcoming and with the Dutchman not pushing for a transfer, earlier this week Liverpool made their move for Thiago.

Edwards is a famously tough negotiator and the passage of time had strengthened Liverpool’s hand. Thiago’s heart was set on Anfield and Bayern were keen for the saga not to overshadow the start to their new season.

The breakdown of the fee is extraordinary given the calibre of the player Liverpool have signed. They will pay a guaranteed £20 million with the rest to potentially follow in add-ons related to team success and individual awards. However, The Athletic understands that £20 million will be spread over the course of Thiago’s contract, with an initial outlay of just £5 million. Put into context, Edwards sold striker Dominic Solanke to Bournemouth for £19 million last year.

“It’s a fantastic deal for the football club,” says a Liverpool source close to the negotiations. “With Thiago having some time off and then the international fixtures at the start of the month, there was no rush to get it done. Klopp wanted the player, the player wanted Liverpool and Bayern were willing to deal.”

It’s a statement signing and the sense of excitement among supporters when the news of a fee being agreed was broken by The Athletic was replicated at Melwood when Klopp’s squad arrived for duty on Thursday.

“All the boys were talking about it,” one dressing-room source tells The Athletic. “A signing like this gives everyone a boost. It shows that the club really mean business and extra competition for places puts even more hunger in the squad.

“We’re not talking about someone coming in as back-up, we’re talking about an elite player who has won loads of trophies and can really make a big difference on the field. He fits the ilk of the kind of player you want to see Liverpool bring in.

“The midfield is one area that Klopp regularly rotates and, with the schedule as it is, the more options we have in there the better.”

The signing of Thiago, whose father Mazinho was a World Cup winner with Brazil in 1994, represents a significant departure from the transfer policy that helped Liverpool win the Champions League, UEFA Super Cup, Club World Cup and the title in the space of 13 months. Owner FSG has always favoured a model of investing in younger talent with big potential.

Klopp has traditionally elevated players into the world-class bracket rather than bought gems at the peak of their career who didn’t need polishing. Even big-money buys such as Virgil van Dijk and Alisson weren’t serial winners the way Thiago is.

In fact, prior to Thiago, the only player over the age of 26 who Liverpool had paid a fee for during Klopp’s reign was Estonian centre-back Ragnar Klavan, a modest £4.2 million stop-gap purchase from Augsburg of Germany in 2016.

This wasn’t a signing being pushed over an extended period by Liverpool’s esteemed team of data analysts. In fact, he was outside of their prescribed remit. However, when Edwards asked them to examine the numbers on Thiago, their findings backed up why Klopp was so desperate to bring him on board.

His expert range of passing and creative spark are well-known. But just as important to Liverpool was the data in terms of winning back possession and operating in tight spaces by keeping the ball when under pressure. He ticked all the boxes.

Thiago suffered a serious knee injury in 2014 which ruled him out for a year but Liverpool had no concerns on that front. He had proved his robust nature by clocking up 220 games for club and country over the past five seasons.

The absence of any real sell-on value, given that he will be 33 when his contract runs out, was deemed unimportant given the relatively low transfer fee and the commercial benefits his signing will undoubtedly yield. Shirt sales since Nike took over from New Balance as the club’s kit supplier this summer are already up by more than 20 per cent and Thiago’s arrival is bound to fuel demand further.

“The player made a strong, early commitment to come to us,” a senior member of staff at Melwood tells The Athletic. “Looking at the fixture list, we knew we needed depth in midfield. Thiago can play the final ball and that’s something that was missing. He’s also outstanding in terms of being press-resistant and he has a superb football brain.”

Klopp and his backroom staff had a drink together in Hotel Gut Brandlhof, close to the picturesque town of Saalfelden, watching the Champions League final during last month’s pre-season training camp in Austria. All eyes were on Thiago, who ran the show and was integral to Bayern’s triumph over Paris Saint-Germain.

It was a performance which reinforced Klopp’s belief that he was an elegant player who could give Liverpool a new dimension. Klopp regards him as one of the most complete and balanced midfielders he’s ever seen.

He and assistant Pep Lijnders often talk about the need for Liverpool to stay “unpredictable”. They like to keep opponents guessing. It’s why they work to ensure that the style of the team evolves from year to year.

So much of their attacking threat currently comes from the wide areas, with the quality provided by full-backs Trent Alexander-Arnold and Andy Robertson. But with Thiago on board, they will have someone capable of dissecting defences from central areas. The front three of Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino should be licking their lips.

“Improving this title-winning team isn’t easy,” says another senior Melwood source. “But Thiago is one of the few who can. In the end, the deal was a no-brainer.”

His presence will give Klopp give greater flexibility in terms of whether to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. It also makes signing another centre-back to replace Lovren less important, given that Thiago’s presence frees up Fabinho to play in the back line when needs must.

Liverpool insist the arrival of Thiago doesn’t mean that another senior midfielder is inevitably on the way out. Wijnaldum has indicated he wants to stay put for the coming season following positive talks with Klopp but a number of fringe men will depart to generate cash. The first of those appears to be Holland youth international Ki-Jana Hoever, who looks set to join Wolves for a fee of over £10 million.

“Klopp knows he needs to sell but he wants to as well,” says a source close to the owners. “He’s wary of the squad becoming bloated.”

Having suffered at the hands of Bayern cherry-picking the likes of Robert Lewandowski, Mats Hummels and Mario Gotze when he was in charge of German rivals Borussia Dortmund, Klopp has now lured an elite midfielder in his prime away from the new European champions.

It’s testament to Klopp’s pulling power and Liverpool’s current status globally. Six years ago, Liverpool’s attempts to sign Toni Kroos involved Brendan Rodgers asking Steven Gerrard to send the Germany midfielder a text message.

Thiago had also been linked with Manchester United this summer but although they held discussions with his representatives there were no direct talks with Bayern.

He had been pursued by both Arsenal and Chelsea in recent years, too. Bayern put feelers out to those two clubs once again in the hope of creating a bidding war with Liverpool, but it never developed. Sources indicate that other potential suitors were quoted salary demands of £17 million a year (£327,000 per week). Barcelona did consider re-signing him, but swapping Arthur for Juventus’ Miralem Pjanic was deemed a more sensible financial decision.

Thiago and his wife, Julia Vigas, had previously expressed a wish to live in London, so when Liverpool became an option some around him weren’t sure if it would appeal to him but he soon put them right. A move to Manchester City and a reunion with Pep Guardiola, who had taken him along in 2013 when he swapped the Nou Camp for Bayern, was never on the cards.

“They had a good professional relationship but as with many players under Pep’s management, the experience together was too intense. Very, very few go running back to him,” one source close to the player and to Barcelona explains.

Thiago really should have graced the Premier League long before now. In 2013, a deal was effectively done to take him from Barcelona to Manchester United. United had tracked him for years and had a mountain of scouting reports, from his days playing for Spain Under-16s right through to life as a full international.

He was 22 and the retiring United manager Sir Alex Ferguson viewed him as one of his two leaving presents to his successor. The other was to bomb out Wayne Rooney following their fallout. However, incoming manager David Moyes decided to keep Rooney and dithered over Thiago.

Both the fee and personal terms had been agreed but Moyes got cold feet. He decided that he didn’t feel comfortable spending money on a player he had never seen play live. Moyes even had a clause in his contract that allowed a certain number of private jets each season for watching players.

The deal collapsed and Moyes ended up going back to previous club Everton to sign Marouane Fellaini for £27.5 million on deadline day. Moyes had also wanted Cesc Fabregas but that failed to materialise too.

Seven years on, Thiago has finally arrived in the Premier League and Klopp’s Liverpool have the show of ambition in the transfer market which will fuel the belief they can retain their crown.

[Pizy 17,860]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

Just like he has turned Oxlade-Chamberlain, Origi etc into world beaters, eh?

Salah, Mané, Robertson, TAA. All bought in for reasonable or no fees and have become world class under him. Even bang average players like Henderson and Milner have gone up a level under him. They've bought some duds, yes, but still. Odds on players improving considerably there are sadly pretty damned high.

[Vesper 27,310]

Thiago, the man who makes gaps appear

https://theathletic.com/2070542/2020/09/17/thiago-liverpool-wijnaldum-formation/?article_source=search&search_query=thiago

In the summer of 2004, Liverpool were about as far away from the position they are in now as they could be. A new cycle was beginning under Rafa Benitez. Chelsea were trying to sign Steven Gerrard. The captain needed support in midfield but a deal for Xabi Alonso did not look like it was going to happen. Real Madrid wanted him but they wondered whether he was too slow and ended up messing him around for too long. This created an opportunity for Liverpool.

The reports about Alonso started on Merseyside almost as soon as Benitez was appointed. Two and a half months later, he was finally a Liverpool player and Gerrard was still there. He and Jamie Carragher had seen a bit of him on Sky because of Real Sociedad’s rise up the league during the 2002-03 season when the Basques finished second.

Keen, established footballers are observers of new signings as much as fans are — but of course, they know better about which smaller details to look out for. To Carragher at least, there was something about the way Alonso tied his bootlaces that reinforced the impression that he might be half decent. Alonso pulled them really tight, like he meant business – in comparison to Igor Biscan who was sitting next to him, it has to be said. Then he adjusted his shin pads, ensuring the top of his training socks were almost at knee level. Out on the grass, Alonso started to make passes.

He was unafraid to make difficult choices but always thundered them towards team-mates, testing their touch. As much as he was being watched, he was watching them; trying to gain an understanding of the new technical abilities around him. “Stevie and I knew straight away that Xabi would be a success,” Carragher remembered.

What would you pay to watch footage of that session at Melwood? What, indeed, would you pay to watch football of the first session that involves Thiago Alcantara all these years later? There are comparisons to be made between Thiago and Alonso because both have filled the same roles with the same national team as well as Bayern Munich with such distinction. Both have been raised by fathers who were successful professional footballers in La Liga. Though Periko Alonso played a decade earlier than Mazinho, the pair were regarded not only as the brains of enterprising sides from San Sebastian and Vigo but the lungs as well.

From a position on the side of a pitch at Bayern’s training facility, Alonso once told me that he appreciated what a footballer looked like because of his experiences helping warming up the reserve goalkeepers of clubs like Tolosa, Beasain and Eibar where his father had managed. He understood what it took to become a footballer and he understood what it took to maintain standards. Weirdly, it was at that point Thiago – then a team-mate in the Bayern midfield – walked past. Alonso embraced him firmly and said as he trotted away, “A player, a player…” Great footballers know other great footballers…

Jurgen Klopp has a way with words and it seems now that he really meant it when he said recently that Liverpool would not defend their Premier League crown, they’d instead, “attack it.” The task he faces is a new one in his career because he hasn’t had to sell any of his best players like he did at Borussia Dortmund after each of his Bundesliga titles. Throughout the summer there has been no sense of absence or loss at Anfield.

For Klopp, the questions instead are a very different ones: how do you keep improving a world-class team where the individuals are approaching their peak even though they have already won the game’s most coveted prizes? Motivation at a base level should not be a problem but how to you push them to their farthest extreme? Can you get even more out of personalities you already know so well?

It will not just be Liverpool’s competing midfielders watching Thiago closely when he puts his boots on at Melwood the first time. Despite his achievements, he’ll be desperate to impress them and in turn they’ll be desperate to impress him. Training standards will increase. Mohamed Salah, Sadio Mane and Roberto Firmino will be salivating at the thought of the service they’ll be getting. Virgil van Dijk and Alisson Becker will be confident they’ll be receiving better protection because Thiago does that side of the game well too.

Though some gaps remain in the squad, the team itself had seemed almost impossible to improve. Only a select few of the world’s best players were capable of making Liverpool’s starting XI better than it already was but Thiago — arguably the best player on the pitch during the Champions League final — will do that. His passing range probably isn’t as extensive as Alonso’s but his shorter game is more incisive and he leaves you with the impression that his movement and thought is quicker in tight spaces. He is always trying to find a way forward.

At Bayern, the much taller and rangy Leon Goretzka moved from box to box and Thiago’s responsibility was a deeper one but you could not describe him as a sitting midfielder. So often over the last few seasons especially, his pass has been the one before the assist and this reflects a willingness to join the attack. “He does not wait for the gaps to appear,” reflected Michael Ballack, the former Bayern and Chelsea midfielder. “He makes them appear.”

During Liverpool’s briefest of pre-seasons, Klopp has experimented with new team shapes and one of those used was his old 4-2-3-1 formation from his Dortmund days. Perhaps this reveals what he might do with Thiago, who was nevertheless reared at Barcelona, where 4-3-3 is sacred. In the most important games over the last two or three seasons his midfield has been a three of Jordan Henderson, Fabinho and Georginio Wijnaldum and it would appear that the latter’s position will face the most scrutiny following Thiago’s arrival, possibly even leading to a departure. Sources at Liverpool have this morning told the The Athletic that the club’s fourth captain is expected to remain at Anfield until the end of the season, however.

Thiago’s signing is untypical of Liverpool because he is a 29-year-old with a status of superstar proportions and this is a club with a history of moulding rather than buying them. Not so long ago, Klopp insisted he did not want to coach Kylian Mbappe but the next Kylian Mbappe. The recruitment of Thiago is hardly a surprise given the length and depth of the conversation about him since he was first linked but his arrival is a departure from Klopp’s original thinking.

Despite some impressions of Klopp, he does not subscribe to dogma – nor is he stubborn. This might be perceived as a weakness when really it should be considered a strength. The challenge is always changing in football and nobody predicted COVID-19 or its impact. In those empty stadiums where opponents have been better placed to soak up pressure because of the lack of frustration or urgency from supporters, he must surely have been able to see that Liverpool needed something different in midfield.

Thiago changes the schemes of rival managers who might have started believing they understand Klopp better, as well as his already brilliant title-winning team.

[Jase 43,479]

22 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Salah, Mané, Robertson, TAA. All bought in for reasonable or no fees and have become world class under him. Even bang average players like Henderson and Milner have gone up a level under him. They've bought some duds, yes, but still. Odds on players improving considerably there are sadly pretty damned high.

Not saying Klopp doesn't improve players because that would be ignorant but the talent and quality of Salah and Mane were already clear to see at their previous. Only normal they would improve given their age and trajectory of their careers.

Henderson and Milner have been solid players but nothing more. In Milner's case, it's of no surprise considering he pretty much did the same job at Man City.

I don't know if TAA was as good at youth level but if he isn't, fair enough. Same goes to Robertson, who has turned out to be their Azpi (and not talking about what they specialize in...). 

[Jase 43,479]

Telles to United is on apparently...

[Valdo 583]

 

[Valdo 583]

Werner really did reject the scousers didn't he 

[Valdo 583]

 

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

So Jota, Thiago and LB from Greece. This is 80m pounds. And apparently Klopp wants new CB as well.

[Magic Lamps 11,449]

we should really go for Telles as back up to Chilwell. Alonso is an utter liability and will cost of tons of points if Chilwell continues to be absent.

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

 

[NikkiCFC 7,580]

Just now, Magic Lamps said:

we should really go for Telles as back up to Chilwell. Alonso is an utter liability and will cost of tons of points if Chilwell continues to be absent.

He will be 1st choice there or in PSG so no sense from his pov.

[prehuman 119]

Alex Telles is a great player.
There are good left-backs on the market.
Tagliafico, Gosens, Grimaldo.
We went for the most expensive of all and not necessarily the best.

Jota's situation was strange.
Surprising that Liverpool buys him, who supposedly had no money for anything, they must have won the lottery because they are so poor according to Klopp.

Mendes promised that a Premier club would buy Semedo from Barcelona.
It will be Wolves, won't it?
Money from Jota to Semedo.

Wolves lost Doherty, does any other club need a right back and have money for him, besides being in Mendes' hand?

Semedo at Wolves in the next few hours.

[Unionjack 7,531]

We were bloody stupid to miss out on Telles, Will really strengthen Manure.

[prehuman 119]

9 minutes ago, Unionjack said:

We were bloody stupid to miss out on Telles, Will really strengthen Manure.

No doubt, Telles and Tagliafico were the best options, in terms of value for money.

It should have been Man Utd doing the same thing they did with Maguire, buying an overvalued player, but in this case Lampard wanted to play that role.