Wigan 1-1 Chelsea

[The Big Drog 1,110]

His assumption is more likely than yours given that we played far better (we still played bad) before the last two subs were brought on

Did we? Wigan had more of the ball still, we got the goal while playing the 4-2-3-1 but that was simply a moment of brilliance via Ashley Cole, not some intricate, beautiful move. Also after we went ahead, Wigan did push forward and they did get a few attempts on goal before AVB brought Mikel on so clearly he was worried about the growing threat of Wigan and wanted to make the midfield more solid, I have no problem with the manger wanting to do that and we are playing away and leading.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Rubbish.

A poor Mata is better than Kalou, but doesn't mean Kalou shouldn't be brought on to try something different when Mata is not playing well.

Would you risk a Mata-burn out?

[Sheva. 5,373]

Ironically a lot of the posts on this thread say that Mata should have been kept on (despite playing poorly) and that Kalou shouldn't be brought on. However even Kalou when he comes on seems to be more involved in the game than Torres does.

Kalou was not a bad sub imo. He created a chance for Drogba - one of the very few chances we had in the game.

I would bring on Kalou every fucking game instead of Malouda who does nothing to help us.

Back to my point - Because Drogba is better than Torres atm doesn't mean Torres should not come on when Drogba is playing badly.

Drogba at the end of the day did nothing, you can't say for "certain" Torres would have been the same.

Yes i know he's not scored forever and all that crap

[Sheva. 5,373]

Would you risk a Mata-burn out?

Definitely not when we have another big game in a couple days.

Subbing Mata for me was the right decision.

[Hd123 5]

Did we? Wigan had more of the ball still, we got the goal while playing the 4-2-3-1 but that was simply a moment of brilliance via Ashley Cole, not some intricate, beautiful move. Also after we went ahead, Wigan did push forward and they did get a few attempts on goal before AVB brought Mikel on so clearly he was worried about the growing threat of Wigan and wanted to make the midfield more solid, I have no problem with the manger wanting to do that and we are playing away and leading.

Romeu should have never gone off in the first place given Meireles and Lampard being on. We played this game with 9 men.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Kalou was not a bad sub imo. He created a chance for Drogba - one of the very few chances we had in the game.

I would bring on Kalou every fucking game instead of Malouda who does nothing to help us.

Back to my point - Because Drogba is better than Torres atm doesn't mean Torres should not come on when Drogba is playing badly.

Drogba at the end of the day did nothing, you can't say for "certain" Torres would have been the same.

Yes i know he's not scored forever and all that crap

I don't think Didier did nothing, he was up against 3 centre backs on his own and some of his link up play was very clever and we did see one trademark Drogba move and header which narrowly missed. Obviously AVB wants to stick with him, and Torres will get his chance to justify himself as a Chelsea player come the ACON.

[Waterfall 893]

You made a post trying to show how idiot are people blaming the manager for the result when in fact it was Cech's fault. If we werent suffering pressure in the end GK wouldnt made such a mistake, or perhaps if we were winning 2-0 that mistake would means nothing.

Sure but GK's are not supposed to make such mistakes in ANY situation. It's not something the manager should be accounting for because it's something so basic. Not sure how you can blame that mistake on AVB.

[bababoom 4,478]

I actually do. If we had unlimited number of substitutions available, it would have made sense to bring on Torres. But why use one of three available to replace a striker for another striker - the one that's been struggling for last 12 months at that - when the midfield's not been creating anything for the CF?

I am not defending Torres, i know he's been poor the last couple of games (when he played more than 10 minutes), but Drogba was poor as well a month or so ago. To be honest Torres was looking good before he got that sending off against Swansea.

What i was trying to say is that we shouldn't just write him off and say that he is automatically going to play bad, therefore we shouldn't play him.

Even a poor Drogba looks better than Torres these days and lets not forget, Didier had a couple of good moments too, some of his one touch passing was very clever and he was unlucky not to score in the first half with a header.

I felt he played poor and he was ineffective.

My point is that we shouldn't automatically say he's not going to play well, he could've played well, especially since Wigan was chasing the game.

[Kieran. 6,317]

People are forgetting Torres' horrible miss against Blackburn, which seemed to have turned Andre completely off towards him.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Romeu should have never gone off in the first place given Meireles and Lampard being on. We played this game with 9 men.

Im assuming the reasoning behind that is that Romeu is naturally a holding midfield player and perhaps AVN felt he wouldn't have been as comfortable playing in a midfield 2 which would have played higher up the pitch than he is used to, also taking off Romeu meant it was an easier and more natural switch once we went 1-0 up to bring on Mikel and create the midfield 3 again, whereas had Romeu stayed on then it likely would have been McEachran (our only other recognised central midfielder on the bench) to come on.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

You made a post trying to show how idiot are people blaming the manager for the result when in fact it was Cech's fault. If we werent suffering pressure in the end GK wouldnt made such a mistake, or perhaps if we were winning 2-0 that mistake would means nothing.

Don't play that card!

Your criticisms of André are fine to debate, but I know you are of the same opinion it was an unforced error by Cech that shouldn't have happened no matter the situation.

Edited December 17, 2011 by RZA

[The Big Drog 1,110]

I am not defending Torres, i know he's been poor the last couple of games (when he played more than 10 minutes), but Drogba was poor as well a month or so ago. To be honest Torres was looking good before he got that sending off against Swansea.

What i was trying to say is that we shouldn't just write him off and say that he is automatically going to play bad, therefore we shouldn't play him.

I felt he played poor and he was ineffective.

My point is that we shouldn't automatically say he's not going to play well, he could've played well, especially since Wigan was chasing the game.

5 defenders, playing deep, and the least creative Chelsea performance of the season, I feel pretty safe saying it wouldn't have been pretty.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Don't play that card!

Your criticisms of André are fine to debate, but I know you are of the same opinion it was an unforced error by Cech.

You are forgetting that beneath Petr's helmet there is an aerial which picks up on signals sent via a a controller which Andre Villas-Boas works on the sidelines.

[bababoom 4,478]

5 defenders, playing deep, and the least creative Chelsea performance of the season, I feel pretty safe saying it wouldn't have been pretty.

Once we were 1-0 up they took one defender off, and started chasing the game. That's when Torres should of came on in my opinion. Drogba was offering nothing. But instead we decided to bring on Mikel and just sit back, and let them attack us.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Once we were 1-0 up they took one defender off, and started chasing the game. That's when Torres should of came on in my opinion. Drogba was offering nothing.

If you think so mate but given the service Drogba got (even when there was 4 defenders) and Torres's new found ability to fade into the background, I don't think it would have made a positive impact, imo.

[Sheva. 5,373]

I don't think Didier did nothing, he was up against 3 centre backs on his own and some of his link up play was very clever and we did see one trademark Drogba move and header which narrowly missed. Obviously AVB wants to stick with him, and Torres will get his chance to justify himself as a Chelsea player come the ACON.

Drogba was well off his game today. You could just see it from the opening 10 minutes.

Not really his fault though, he should not be playing so many minutes as far as i'm concerned.

[bababoom 4,478]

If you think so mate but given the service Drogba got (even when there was 4 defenders) and Torres's new found ability to fade into the background, I don't think it would have made a positive impact, imo.

We shouldn't of gone so defensive once we were 1-0 up, why did we bring on Mikel? we were against Wigan not Man city. Torres should of at least got some minutes.

[Hd123 5]

If you think so mate but given the service Drogba got (even when there was 4 defenders) and Torres's new found ability to fade into the background, I don't think it would have made a positive impact, imo.

Drogba is older than Sturridge, he is more tired as the game goes on

Malouda is crap in possession

Torres would be completely full of energy and would attack tired centrebacks

I'm not saying it would have worked. But it would sure be 100% better than Malouda being on. And no, Sturridge minor knock was not that big a deal