Wigan 1-1 Chelsea

[Waterfall 893]

why Fernando Torres was not played tonight ? can tell me someone??

Because he's been really bad last 11 months, and the striker position wasn't even the biggest problem today. To think Torres would have made a difference is putting blind faith in the biggest transfer flop of all time.

[teignman 441]

Tough result, but not undeserved. As happens so often in sport, a team gets a hard-fought emotional victory only to follow it up with a flat, lackluster performance against lesser opposition. I don't agree with taking Mata off, or Sturridge for that matter. I do see AVB's logic behind the subs. He had to get some stability in the midfield after he took Romeu off, so off came Mata for Mikel. I guess the main sub I had an issue with was taking Danny off. I thought if AVB wanted to go more defensive, he should've taken off Drogs for Malouda. It would've improved our odds to get back in the game if they equalized (which looked entirely possible from the flow of the game and Wigan's attacks). Danny even looked rather surprised that he was being taken off.

Yet, the story/stories of the game are the stories of our season. The bad parts at least. We looked lifeless out there and lacked any real intent and decisiveness. I know it's tough to play against a 5 man back, but we were lackadaisical. This ultimately lead to an individual mistake that cost us 2 points. Some may not agree, but I do not want us going into an ultra-defensive strategy nursing a 1 goal lead with more than a quarter of the game left against a lesser side.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

So what you're saying is, even if Drogba is having a poor game, we might as well keep him on because Torres is not going to do much better.

I do not agree with that at all.

Even a poor Drogba looks better than Torres these days and lets not forget, Didier had a couple of good moments too, some of his one touch passing was very clever and he was unlucky not to score in the first half with a header.

[Hd123 5]

Do you not know that succumbing to pressure in this manner is absolutely unacceptable?

Are you an idiot or something? If one team keeps more pressure on the other, they have a higher chance to score. How is this even debatable?

[Cosmin 2,484]

Are we arguing the performance or the two points lost?

Both? The performance lost the points for Chelsea, not Cech. It shouldn't have come to that mistake.

[Henrique 9,133]

Do you not know that succumbing to pressure in this manner is absolutely unacceptable?

Are we arguing the performance or the two points lost?

You made a post trying to show how idiot are people blaming the manager for the result when in fact it was Cech's fault. If we werent suffering pressure in the end GK wouldnt made such a mistake, or perhaps if we were winning 2-0 that mistake would means nothing.

[Kostas 1,468]

Are you an idiot or something? If one team keeps more pressure on the other, they have a higher chance to score. How is this even debatable?

I apologise for bothering.

Both? The performance lost the points for Chelsea, not Cech. It shouldn't have come to that mistake.

That's where we disagree. While I couldn't possibly defend the performance, we looked more than capable of taking the 3 points with us, and would have had it not been for an individual mistake.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

You made a post trying to show how idiot are people blaming the manager for the result when in fact it was Cech's fault. If we werent suffering pressure in the end GK wouldnt made such a mistake, or perhaps if we were winning 2-0 that mistake would means nothing.

The problem with your theory is that you are going on the assumption that we would have scored a second had we stuck with the 4-2-3-1 and that is complete guess work, I could just as easily argue that we would have lost 2-1 had we kept with the 4-2-3-1, of course my argument would have no basis in fact, just like your argument has no basis in fact.

[Hd123 5]

Because he's been really bad last 11 months, and the striker position wasn't even the biggest problem today. To think Torres would have made a difference is putting blind faith in the biggest transfer flop of all time.

Ok, so Torres has been bad in his time here. Does this mean we should NEVER start or sub him on again? Is that what you're saying? Because I can assure you that is hypocritical given that Kalou, Malouda, Bosingwa, Mikel are getting gametime. If we can't trust him against Wigan I don't know who we will then. Maybe Portsmouth, will you be ok if Torres starts against them or should we start Drogba again?

[Sheva. 5,373]

Even a poor Drogba looks better than Torres these days and lets not forget, Didier had a couple of good moments too, some of his one touch passing was very clever and he was unlucky not to score in the first half with a header.

Rubbish.

A poor Mata is better than Kalou, but doesn't mean Kalou shouldn't be brought on to try something different when Mata is not playing well.

[Hd123 5]

The problem with your theory is that you are going on the assumption that we would have scored a second had we stuck with the 4-2-3-1 and that is complete guess work, I could just as easily argue that we would have lost 2-1 had we kept with the 4-2-3-1, of course my argument would have no basis in fact, just like your argument has no basis in fact.

His assumption is more likely than yours given that we played far better (we still played bad) before the last two subs were brought on

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Rubbish.

A poor Mata is better than Kalou, but doesn't mean Kalou shouldn't be brought on to try something different when Mata is not playing well.

Ironically a lot of the posts on this thread say that Mata should have been kept on (despite playing poorly) and that Kalou shouldn't be brought on. However even Kalou when he comes on seems to be more involved in the game than Torres does.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

His assumption is more likely than yours given that we played far better (we still played bad) before the last two subs were brought on

Did we? Wigan had more of the ball still, we got the goal while playing the 4-2-3-1 but that was simply a moment of brilliance via Ashley Cole, not some intricate, beautiful move. Also after we went ahead, Wigan did push forward and they did get a few attempts on goal before AVB brought Mikel on so clearly he was worried about the growing threat of Wigan and wanted to make the midfield more solid, I have no problem with the manger wanting to do that and we are playing away and leading.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Rubbish.

A poor Mata is better than Kalou, but doesn't mean Kalou shouldn't be brought on to try something different when Mata is not playing well.

Would you risk a Mata-burn out?

[Sheva. 5,373]

Ironically a lot of the posts on this thread say that Mata should have been kept on (despite playing poorly) and that Kalou shouldn't be brought on. However even Kalou when he comes on seems to be more involved in the game than Torres does.

Kalou was not a bad sub imo. He created a chance for Drogba - one of the very few chances we had in the game.

I would bring on Kalou every fucking game instead of Malouda who does nothing to help us.

Back to my point - Because Drogba is better than Torres atm doesn't mean Torres should not come on when Drogba is playing badly.

Drogba at the end of the day did nothing, you can't say for "certain" Torres would have been the same.

Yes i know he's not scored forever and all that crap

[Sheva. 5,373]

Would you risk a Mata-burn out?

Definitely not when we have another big game in a couple days.

Subbing Mata for me was the right decision.

[Hd123 5]

Did we? Wigan had more of the ball still, we got the goal while playing the 4-2-3-1 but that was simply a moment of brilliance via Ashley Cole, not some intricate, beautiful move. Also after we went ahead, Wigan did push forward and they did get a few attempts on goal before AVB brought Mikel on so clearly he was worried about the growing threat of Wigan and wanted to make the midfield more solid, I have no problem with the manger wanting to do that and we are playing away and leading.

Romeu should have never gone off in the first place given Meireles and Lampard being on. We played this game with 9 men.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Kalou was not a bad sub imo. He created a chance for Drogba - one of the very few chances we had in the game.

I would bring on Kalou every fucking game instead of Malouda who does nothing to help us.

Back to my point - Because Drogba is better than Torres atm doesn't mean Torres should not come on when Drogba is playing badly.

Drogba at the end of the day did nothing, you can't say for "certain" Torres would have been the same.

Yes i know he's not scored forever and all that crap

I don't think Didier did nothing, he was up against 3 centre backs on his own and some of his link up play was very clever and we did see one trademark Drogba move and header which narrowly missed. Obviously AVB wants to stick with him, and Torres will get his chance to justify himself as a Chelsea player come the ACON.

[Waterfall 893]

You made a post trying to show how idiot are people blaming the manager for the result when in fact it was Cech's fault. If we werent suffering pressure in the end GK wouldnt made such a mistake, or perhaps if we were winning 2-0 that mistake would means nothing.

Sure but GK's are not supposed to make such mistakes in ANY situation. It's not something the manager should be accounting for because it's something so basic. Not sure how you can blame that mistake on AVB.

[bababoom 4,478]

I actually do. If we had unlimited number of substitutions available, it would have made sense to bring on Torres. But why use one of three available to replace a striker for another striker - the one that's been struggling for last 12 months at that - when the midfield's not been creating anything for the CF?

I am not defending Torres, i know he's been poor the last couple of games (when he played more than 10 minutes), but Drogba was poor as well a month or so ago. To be honest Torres was looking good before he got that sending off against Swansea.

What i was trying to say is that we shouldn't just write him off and say that he is automatically going to play bad, therefore we shouldn't play him.

Even a poor Drogba looks better than Torres these days and lets not forget, Didier had a couple of good moments too, some of his one touch passing was very clever and he was unlucky not to score in the first half with a header.

I felt he played poor and he was ineffective.

My point is that we shouldn't automatically say he's not going to play well, he could've played well, especially since Wigan was chasing the game.