Global Revolution

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 12/12/2011 at 15:04, Clevemayer said:

what I'm trying to say is this: "we should all stop to accuse other ppl and start to accept our own wrongdoings..."

I'm fully with blueschick, too...

but neither america nor Lybia or any other country is free of wrongdoings... so we should stop to think we can prejudge ppl from an nation/country because of some numbers...

No one has judged any "people" in this thread. We were merely discussing world politics and expressing our opinions.

Forgive me, but your logic, though morally admirable, is naive. The point you are missing is that those politics that we are judging and accusing influence the lives of billions and inevitably you and me, which for me grants me every right to criticize and complain about them. By your logic, if someone beats me up and steals my wallet, I should not complain about it or report him to the police because he just made a mistake like all humans do and because I too commit mistakes in my life.

[Clevemayer 764]

  On 12/12/2011 at 15:19, CHOULO19 said:

No one has judged any "people" in this thread. We were merely discussing world politics and expressing our opinions.

Forgive me, but your logic, though morally admirable, is naive. The point you are missing is that those politics that we are judging and accusing influence the lives of billions and inevitably you and me, which for me grants me every right to criticize and complain about them. By your logic, if someone beats me up and steals my wallet, I should not complain about it or report him to the police because he just made a mistake like all humans do and because I too commit mistakes in my life.

wrong...

I was saying you should start to realize that you have no right what so ever to criticise some nations for wrongdoings you're own nation is doing too...

and if you've got enough power to change America, than please change Brittain, Germany....

you're hatering against particularly America at this thread, albeit there are so many other nations involved.... just realize you should start something and move something before you throw accusations around in an footballforum... this has barely an effect...

[DDA 9,772]

I will one day rule this world so none of you will have anything to worry about ever again! Chelsea fans will live like Kings!

[warnie_666 1,081]

  On 12/12/2011 at 15:26, Clevemayer said:

wrong...

I was saying you should start to realize that you have no right what so ever to criticise some nations for wrongdoings you're own nation is doing too...

and if you've got enough power to change America, than please change Brittain, Germany....

you're hatering against particularly America at this thread, albeit there are so many other nations involved.... just realize you should start something and move something before you throw accusations around in an footballforum... this has barely an effect...

I like how the ones that make the anti America brigade on this thread are british. Almost all of them have let it rip at US. The Irony is they haven't said much about their own country which according to the rest of the world is US's bitch as it follows US everywhere. But not a single word against their own govt. It's all about US. US is in it for oil, gas, etc etc. What about UK? What business does it have to follow US everywhere.? What about your governments foreign policies? UK has long been as biased as US. Sending SAS to guard the rich oil kings/dictators against his own people who have been living in poverty.

Had your govt had a spine you wouldn't have been a target of jihadis. And before someone points out to india being a target of jihadis inspite of not supporting US I would suggest you think before you write that.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 12/12/2011 at 16:03, warnie_666 said:

I like how the ones that make the anti America brigade on this thread are british. Almost all of them have let it rip at US. The Irony is they haven't said much about their own country which according to the rest of the world is US's bitch as it follows US everywhere. But not a single word against their own govt. It's all about US. US is in it for oil, gas, etc etc. What about UK? What business does it have to follow US everywhere.? What about your governments foreign policies? UK has long been as biased as US. Sending SAS to guard the rich oil kings/dictators against his own people who have been living in poverty.

Had your govt had a spine you wouldn't have been a target of jihadis. And before someone points out to india being a target of jihadis inspite of not supporting US I would suggest you think before you write that.

I have followed this thread since it started. This thread has included a discussion of politics in the US, UK, Iran, Syria, Israel/Palestine, Libiya, Egypt....... It has included criticism to all the governments of the countries I just mentioned. Here are a few things said directly criticizing the UK government:

  On 09/11/2011 at 18:39, RZA said:

5,000+ students march in protest in central London today, Trafalgar Square.

Yet the emphasis is on the police control. The whole aim/cause of it, is being ignored by mass media.

  On 01/11/2011 at 08:34, RZA said:

That's good. Not surprised Britain abstained.. After all, they don't want to piss off big-brother.

  On 22/10/2011 at 07:33, Fulham Broadway said:

All of Tony Blairs mates seem to be getting attacked or killed -Mubarek, Murdoch, Gaddafi....

Cliff Richard must be shitting himself

  On 02/12/2011 at 10:05, Fulham Broadway said:

Back to the here and now -

The system is fucked, because yesterday the european central banks failed to get credit lines from the Chinese or the Arab oil nations, because the politicians and bankers are using words like ‘apochalyptic’, ‘facing the abyss’ and about how there will be ‘massive wealth destruction’ and a ’50% drop in output across europe’ should one bank or nation default on their debt, because by the end of this year, or the beginning of 2012 the credit markets will crash and they’ll drag equities with them- this is why London is still full of cops from other parts of the country- When the banks start to crash, and make no mistake they will, credit lines to major companies will be cut, banks will be forced to take bank holidays and limit withdrawls to prevent panicked savers pulling all their cash out in a huge bank-run, distribution of goods will seize up and the shelves of supermarkets and the ATMs will rapidly empty, companies will issue mass redundancies, there may well be power cuts…

All the banks and governments are doing now, is delaying the inevitable, rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic

..happy days ahead....

If you failed to see those, it is because you insist on playing the part of the victim.

[Kostas 1,468]

I seriously don't see why criticizing one country's wrongdoings is perceived as taking sides or being blind to your own country's methods.

I didn't follow this thread mostly due to its name (either naive or blatantly false IMHO) but since I picked up today from page 2 I've almost run out of rep points due to how surprisingly decent and levelminded a political discussion on a football forum is.

[warnie_666 1,081]

  On 12/12/2011 at 16:34, CHOULO19 said:

I have followed this thread since it started. This thread has included a discussion of politics in the US, UK, Iran, Syria, Israel/Palestine, Libiya, Egypt....... It has included criticism to all the governments of the countries I just mentioned. Here are a few things said directly criticizing the UK government:

If you failed to see those, it is because you insist on playing the part of the victim.

If there are 2 posts against UK govt for it's shoddy internal affairs there are 15 posts on US for it's external affairs by the same people. I still haven't seen a single post questioning why UK has to follow US everywhere. All I see is US and it's external affairs. I made a point on this in past and yet no posts on it.

[Clevemayer 764]

  On 12/12/2011 at 17:40, Kostas said:

I seriously don't see why criticizing one country's wrongdoings is perceived as taking sides or being blind to your own country's methods.

I didn't follow this thread mostly due to its name (either naive or blatantly false IMHO) but since I picked up today from page 2 I've almost run out of rep points due to how surprisingly decent and levelminded a political discussion on a football forum is.

its abaout the relation between both parties, lets better say sides... I'm not gett'n involved in this but it feels for me like... you're weighing up with different approaches... you have to give exactly the same tollerance or intollerance in this case to anybody... All I say is, if you really want to criticise... you wont get finisched in 100 years... but if you do so... be fair and not subjective like many of the posts here are... they cant differ from countrys they have sympathy and others they don't have

[warnie_666 1,081]

  On 12/12/2011 at 17:40, Kostas said:

I seriously don't see why criticizing one country's wrongdoings is perceived as taking sides or being blind to your own country's methods.

Not a problem if your own country is not guilty of the same wrong doings that US has been guilty of. My problem is with the Brits who are quick to pounce on US when their own govt is equally guilty of it but I don't see many questioning UK and it's foreign policies.

Someone mentioned US attacked Afghanistan for Gas another mentioned they also are big on opium. Now should I interpret that as US attacked Afghanistan for opium? Laughable!!

The other day someone was hooked on to Hiroshima and Nagasaki accusing of genocide when I pointed out the Nanking massacre and how the Japs tortured raped and killed millions in China during WW2 they just ignored it and instead kept accusing the US of genocide. Like I mentioned in the past I don't take sides but I use the same yardstick to evaluate every country and it's policies. If it weren't for the fat man and little boy the Japs would have continued torturing and murderig millions. It's sad that it took another genocide to stop them but FFS look at the other side too

[LDN Blue 7,903]

BluesChick. I understand what you're saying but I don't think anyone's directly offended American citizens. Just your government and their foreign policies. I don't think that's a reflection on their citizens, like yourself or Warnie.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

  On 12/12/2011 at 17:51, warnie_666 said:

The other day someone was hooked on to Hiroshima and Nagasaki accusing of genocide when I pointed out the Nanking massacre and how the Japs tortured raped and killed millions in China during WW2 they just ignored it and instead kept accusing the US of genocide. Like I mentioned in the past I don't take sides but I use the same yardstick to evaluate every country and it's policies. If it weren't for the fat man and little boy the Japs would have continued torturing and murderig millions. It's sad that it took another genocide to stop them but FFS look at the other side too

And as I said during then.. They're both guilty. But one country's genocide doesn't excuse the other's.

[Fulham Broadway 17,102]

The UK foreign policy is just as bad as the US, but on a smaller scale from when the UK ruled Two Thirds of the World in 1870.

However the US has

1. Attempted to overthrow more than 50 governments, most of which were democratically-elected.
   
2. Attempted to suppress a populist or nationalist movement in 20 countries.
   
3. Grossly interfered in democratic elections in at least 30 countries.
   
4. Dropped bombs on the people of more than 30 countries.
   
5. Attempted to assassinate more than 50 foreign leaders.
   

And killed up to 45 million peole since 1945 in the following countries (William Blum, American historian)

• Afghanistan
  
• Albania
  
• Algeria
  
• Angola
  
• Australia
  
• Bolivia
  
• Bosnia
  
• Brazil
  
• British Guiana (now Guyana)
  
• Bulgaria
  
• Cambodia
  
• Chad
  
• Chile
  
• China
  
• Colombia
  
• Congo (also as Zaire)
  
• Costa Rica
  
• Cuba
  
• Dominican Republic
  
• East Timor
  
• Ecuador
  
• Egypt
  
• El Salvador
  
• Fiji
  
• France
  
• Germany (plus East Germany)
  
• Ghana
  
• Greece
  
• Grenada
  
• Guatemala
  
• Honduras
  
• India
  
• Indonesia
  
• Iran
  

• Iraq
  
• Italy
  
• Jamaica
  
• Japan
  
• Kuwait
  
• Laos
  
• Lebanon
  
• Libya
  
• Mongolia
  
• Morocco
  
• Nepal
  
• Nicaragua
  
• North Korea
  
• Pakistan
  
• Palestine
  
• Panama
  
• Peru
  
• Philippines
  
• Portugal
  
• Russia
  
• Seychelles
  
• Slovakia
  
• Somalia
  
• South Africa
  
• Soviet Union
  
• Sudan
  
• Suriname
  
• Syria
  
• Thailand
  
• Uruguay
  
• Venezuela
  
• Vietnam (plus North Vietnam)
  
• Yemen (plus South Yemen)
  
• Yugoslavia
  

[warnie_666 1,081]

And I am sure your spineless govt backed them in those operations.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

  On 13/12/2011 at 16:27, warnie_666 said:

And I am sure your spineless govt backed them in those operations.

Probably so. We make no attempt to say otherwise. Our Government is exactly as you said "spineless".

[warnie_666 1,081]

  On 13/12/2011 at 17:03, RZA said:

Probably so. We make no attempt to say otherwise. Our Government is exactly as you said "spineless".

If only your govt had a spine and said NO to US. US wanted support to invade afghan and Iraq and while countries like India and Turkey refused UK said YES. Why? I have no clue why....there were no major terrorist attacks against the brits by Al Qaida. But then bus bombings happened and now uK is user threat.

May be had UK said no US would have been less bullish on it's foreign policy.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

  On 13/12/2011 at 17:24, warnie_666 said:

If only your govt had a spine and said NO to US. US wanted support to invade afghan and Iraq and while countries like India and Turkey refused UK said YES. Why? I have no clue why....there were no major terrorist attacks against the brits by Al Qaida. But then bus bombings happened and now uK is user threat.

May be had UK said no US would have been less bullish on it's foreign policy.

Perhaps so.

Back then we all said, in a common phrase, "Bush leads, Blair follows". It was a ridiculous decision by our government & despite holding, one of the biggest, protests they still carried through. There's not been a single day where we've been appealing to our Government to leave these countries alone.

There's so much injustice in the UK, by actions of our government. They are as guilty as America for invading Iraq & Afghanistan etc. Our royal family is a travesty. Who has a power which is preposterous, the power to overrule the Courts.

Like the case of Diego Garcia where a court granted these people, who's land was invaded by the UK & USA, to have their rights reinstated to move back home. However the Queen overruled the courts and stopped this from happening. A blatant abuse of power.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 12/12/2011 at 18:46, RZA said:

But one country's genocide doesn't excuse the other's.

This. Very basic logic as I see it, but one that most people don't seem see.