Juan Mata

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Don't think Xavi & Iniesta's sats can be used as a relevant comparison. Xavi plays deeper. Iniesta has been inconsistent this season and last (by his standards). Also Barcelona's system completely centres around Messi.

What kind of an identity can a system really have if the no.10 hasn't managed to make a single assist in 14 games?

The team relies on Xavi and Fabregas to pull the strings . Just cause he is deeper doesn't mean that the team doesn't revolve on the two of them. Barcelona's system no longer centres around Messi. Their main complaint last season was that they had no plan B. Martino employed the concept of using verticalidad and shifted the tactics revolving around Messi as plan B. They are much more effecient with Fabregas and Alex Song playing as false 9's , and Busquets + Xavi recycling and distributing possession.

[dee25 1,044]

They're integral cogs to the way Barca play and whilst they may not make that all important final ball they bring others into the game. That's what Oscar has done in many of his games this year. The simple answer might just be to say an identity that doesn't require the number 10 to make that final pass.

Agreed. Xavi and Iniesta bring others into the game but then there's also Fabregas who often is the one that provides the final pass.

If we're going to play with 2 dribblers on the wings then the no.10 needs to be able to provide incisive passes into the box otherwise you'll struggle to penetrate the opponent's defence. The point of the no.10 role is to give freedom of movement to the player occupying the position so he is able to influence the game, get into dangerous areas and get on the ball as often as possible.

If our system isn't set up for the no.10 to be a playmaker then the creative outlet needs to come from somewhere else but it hasn't so far. If you look at Bayern last season, Muller who was employed in the 10 role wasn't that creative and he played a similar role to Oscar. That worked for them though because they had schweinsteiger behind Muller and they had two extremely good attacking fullbacks.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

1 goal and 1 assist isn't good enough.

2 goals and 1 assist isn't much better.

That's the stats in La Liga for Iniesta and Xavi respectively, but these players make the team tick. Oscar has been at the heart of pretty much everything good we've done this season and has about half-a-dozen man of the match awards.

I agree with what you say about Mata not really fitting Mourinho's system and that's a shame because he's a great guy but if we're going to establish an identity then maybe he has to move on. If you look at the Musondas and Bogas that we're hoping to develop and take up that number 10 role going forward then they combine skill and vision with a physicality that more closely resembles Oscar's play than Mata's. Maybe he can reinvent himself as a left-sided inside forward but I'm not sure.

Xavi and Iniesta have both been played as central midfielders this season and not #10s which is a massive difference in what they are supposed to do. They both have passing rates of over 90% and take a combined 1.9 shots a game. Their job is to set up Messi, Neymar, Fabergas, Alexis, etc...to lead the attack. Oscar himself takes 2.1 shots a game. His role, when done well, should result in good statistics. Your #10 needs to be scoring and setting up goals and chances and Oscar is 7th on our team in key passes per game. he has zero assists and has the lowest passing accuracy of any of our attacking midfielders. It's not near good enough for a #10.

Earlier in the season (up until about 10 games ago) it was a little different because he was playing quite well even when he wasn't producing statistically but since then, he's been poor. I certainly don't see him as the hub of what we've done well this season. I think he and Mata should be switching off as #10s depending on the competition and who is playing in central midfield for us but Mourinho doesn't see it that way obviously .

[Barbara 15,149]

I disagree he's been given the opportunity or that he isn't good enough to build a team around. Two straight years as player of the year for Chelsea proves that he is certainly a good enough player to be playing regularly in his favoured position. I really do think that Mata just isn't ever going to fit in the system Mourinho wants. Managers can, to a large extent, make players succeed or fail. For example, if Mourinho required Ronaldo to work more defensively and to pass in a tight system, then he would obviously be a much worse player. A lot of Ronaldo's success is based around the fact that Real Madrid is set up for Ronaldo and that he has free reign to do whatever he wants even if it means he shoots 10 times in a game from 35 yards. If Mourinho had Ozil try to play like Mata is now, he'd also have struggled. The point is not just that Mata has played largely out of position (which he has) it's that the way Mourinho wants Mata to play is guaranteed so make sure he isn't productive. Mata needs to be in space to create and to be able to have some freedom to move. He needs to get the ball in dangerous areas and do something with it. Our system doesn't allow him any freedom. He barely touches the ball in dangerous areas at all. Mata has taken a total of 10 shots in 9 starts which is the lowest ratio of any of our attacking midfielders. (Yet, still also has the best key pass-start ratio). I understand Chelsea allowed Mata to shirk his defensive duties a little too much the last couple of years, but an in-form Mata is exactly what we're lacking and the main reason we haven't been able to break down teams. There is a balance between getting him to do more defensive work and sidelining him. Chelsea need more balance in their attack because right now it's just dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot from distance. I would have loved to have seen Mata been given a few games in a row as a #10 starting with Hazard and Willian/Schurrle on the right but that isn't going to happen with Mourinho. Mata is going to need to be sold because he is never going to work in Mourinho's system but that says as much about Mourinho's inflexibility as a manager as it does Mata's as a player.

BTW, I don't think Oscar has done anything to earn the #10 role either and this is part of what I was talking about allowing players to succeed or fail. Oscar and Hazard are given every chance to succeed and the freedom in the system to do so. Oscar has 5 goals and 0 assists in 14 games which is hardly setting the world on fire and after his great start to the season, he's actually been pretty poor for quite a while. (1 goal and 0 assists in his last 6 Premier League games, 1 goal, 1 assist in his last 9 games overall including a lot of games where he's been invisible).

Freedom? Are you telling Oscar has freedom? Sorry, mate, I can't agree with that. He's the player with more responsibilities when he plays because he has to tackle, to transition, to defend, to press, to knit the team together, to go deeper to get the ball when the opposite defense is well posted waiting, he has to give passes for the strikers and others AM's in the final third. What freedom does he have? I'm not saying he executes all of those down to a T, but he has all those responsibilities. Which freedom are you talking about?

The main point of my post was WHEN Mata is in THE ATTACKING THIRD with the ball on his feet he hasn't done the magic he normally does. Did he unlearn how to give an assist? Is that what you (and others) are trying to convince us of? If you tell me because of other responsibilities he has he doesn't find himself in that position as often as in the past, then I'll agree with you - because that's true. I'm not talking about how many minutes or which % of his playing time he spends there. I'm questioning what he's been doing when HE IS THERE.

I'm not interested in giving a thousand excuses as why Mata doesn't play even 50% of his potential these days (I guess he's playing around 20-30%). I'm interested in finding real reasons for that so they can be worked around. We would spend the rest of our lives giving all excuses in the book for him; blaming Mourinho, Oscar, Willian or whoever. The lack of minutes, the lack of playing on his favorite position (despite being a winger all his life in Spain), the lack of motivation, the lack of happiness, exhaustion from previous seasons, injury during pre-season, lack of form. The list is endless. Still they are only excuses as they don't change anything.

I'm also not interested in giving up on him so easily, you won't see me saying or liking posts saying he should leave in January or in the summer window because it's the best for him because he doesn't fit anymore. I don't want Mata gone. I'm convinced he won't be the player he used to be in this system, but we don't need him to be that player, we need him just to be more effective. If Ozil could work with Mourinho in a very similar 4-2-3-1 system (where he had very similar responsibilities to Mata - both defensive and offensive) and made him produce the stats he did for three seasons, then I'm convinced Mata can as well (although I think Ozil is a better player, which is subjective and anyone can think otherwise). So instead of giving 1000 reasons why he isn't producing, I think it should be addressed he needs to get his shit together - even if it got all over the place because of things he couldn't control (injury, missing pre-season, having too many matches under his belt in previous seasons, new manager, unfavorable system, etc...).

No one, not even Mourinho himself will convince me that this system is so anti-Mata, that he can't provide a decent amount of assists. I don't need him to repeat his numbers, I just need him to create more (especially as he shoots even less now than in the past) when he has the ball on his feet in the attacking third. Stats also show me he has plenty of passes in the final third, so it's not like he didn't receive the ball in his favorite zone of the pitch enough times. He did, he just did nothing with that and your stats show me that - more than 50% of his key passes come from corners and horizontal passes yards out of the box when a player decided to go for a shot from a casual pass that was never intended to be an assist, but as Luiz, Ramires, Lampard, Hazard, Willian or whoever decided to shoot, then it counts as a key-pass. The only exception this entire season has been the Southampton match. Against Sunderland he had 3 KP (a short pass for Willian inside the box in a 2x1 play; a pass for Lampard who took a chance in a shot outside the box, and a pass for Hazard outside the box where he cut in, passed by a few opponents and shot). Against Palace he had 1KP - a ball outside the corner of the box for Ivanovic. Against Stoke only 1 KP (a very good through ball for Cahill at the edge of the box) and I could go on and on... Is that everything he can give us? Key passes that happen more often in zones that are unlike to become goals? What's so wrong in our current system that among all his many passes in the attacking third that's all he's produced in those matches?

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to another poster (don't remember who), I never said he was moody, I said IF he was moody (more like a psychological thing like, lack of motivation, being down, or whatever happens that the player CAN'T control, it has NOTHING to do with attitude) then it's a problem (I guess it's a poor choice of word anyway). If a player needs to feel like he's the cherry in the cake to produce (and some just need), it's a problem for the manager. I never said he has this problem, I said if that's the case then this is a problem. Maybe he needs to have such confidence, trust and appreciation from his manager to produce his best. Have seen tons of people (in all fields) that need this.

[The Skipper 20,593]

Mata has played a lot recently but can anyone seriously say he's been playing or has been allowed to play as a true number 10?

He's been out wide for most of it as well. Versus Stoke when it was him, Schurrle and Hazard it was Schurrle playing at number 10 as a shadow striker and Mourinho had Mata playing on the right wing as an inside forward which is what he's been playing as for the majority of this season. He isn't close to as effective there as he is when given the freedom to be the organiser in attack.

I honestly can't believe a player who scored 20 goals and got 30+ assists last season is being marginalised like this, especially when the system we have going on right now isn't as effective either.

Oscar at number 10 with the responsibility he's given would work a lot better if we had attacking fullbacks and a decent distributor in the pivot but we don't have the latter and Mourinho refuses to implement the former.

The fact that we have great creative players like Mata, KDB, Hazard, Willian and Oscar that are not producing enough assists or goals (bar Oscar for the latter) shows that there's something wrong with the system we're implementing right about now and that's understandable given that we've only had Jose for the last 5/6 months but there aren't any signs of progression just yet which is exactly what's worrying me atm.

[BleedsBlue 1,549]

The problem at Chelsea is that we are not a selling club and have never looked to benefit from sales of players,especially consistent performing ones.

There were times when we could have sold Essien for a large sum but chose not to because we believed in him and thought he'll get back to his normal self.Unfortunately that did not happen.

Now I am not comparing Mata to Essien but the situation now is that we have the players to replace Mata.Also Mata isn't playing his preferred position,he's been forced to adapt but that really is not a problem this season because he wants to prove to his manager that he can improve and be a better all round player but what will happen next season.Will Mata still be comfortable with this kind of role and knowing that he isn't the best at that this kind of adapted role,does it really make sense playing him for the whole team in general?

Mata is a class player and is worth the 30m+ PSG are offering, but whats more important is that the Spaniard enjoys his football and gets to play every week. We all love Mata here,he's a gentleman and loves the club a lot but if we really look at this whole situation,a move to PSG or some other top club is the best decision for both parties.

I know its sad but we have to accept the facts and deal with it.

[Mustafa 885]

Throwback to when Mata ran the show at Chelsea

[Sheva. 5,373]

Just play him every home game vs the 'lower sides'. Criminal he did not get an assist today with the passes to Eto'o, and the dangerous corners.

[Milan 17,836]

He created several good chances, either for Eto'o or for Hazard. If we had a decent striker, Juan would be praised for his assists.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Just magical at times. My MOTM.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

He was immense I think his our only natural playmaker which is why we should keep him, he is really differnt from all the other trio but in a special kind of way.

[Mustafa 885]

Just play him every home game vs the 'lower sides'. Criminal he did not get an assist today with the passes to Eto'o, and the dangerous corners.

So that means he'll play only 10 games throughout the season.... Sad isn't it

[The Skipper 20,593]

Should've had a couple of assists yesterday, decent game from Juan.

[Sidzeret 2,257]

Hate to see him leave when he is still at his prime. Sad he is not getting the deserved recognition from Mourinho.

[Mustafa 885]

[Mouri_Matic 560]

Will be dropped for the Liverpool game because he doesn't track back enough and isn't suited to the parking midfield plan.

[Tomo 21,685]

Unlike the Torres fanboyism (which quite frankly has me banging my head against a brick wall) i can understand why Chelsea fans are so defensive with Mata and to be honest don't really blame them.

We were just off the back off an dreadful season in 10/11 and a frustrating transfer window up until the end of August, all off a sudden we finally get that creative midfielder we have been fantasizing about to the point of obsession and he really did stand out like a star in a stale, stagnant Chelsea team that have hit father time. Then go further into the season (for example, Naples), our club was in such a mess it actually got the point where Mata was the only shining light in a dark, dark tunnel, literally the only aspect of our club at the time we could talk about without cringing, let alone brag about.

Mata was our hope, the one player that was on form and we could enjoy watching during a horrible run of form and the club in a crisis, Mata was their to make everything that little bit less painful, like a young child's mum when the child is poorly, or your best friend when you are on a job on the other side off the world, living in a tent with complete strangers (apart from your best friend), getting 4 hours sleep only every night and waking up to Porridge.

I will always love and be grateful to him for single handedly getting me through most of that season, and the sentimental part of me is a little bit sad we are unlikely to see him in that sort of form under Mourinho, but my happiness that we had a great player on top form like Mata back then, that feeling was overpowered with the sadness of the state the club was in on a whole, just like now my sentimental sadness that Mata is looking a shadow of what he was back then, is overpowered by the fact i am really happy we are still in the title race and look to be making an effort to sort out problem position's in January.

To cut a long story short, i will always love Mata, but club comes before anyone.

[mac.bo 48]

Will be dropped for the Liverpool game because he doesn't track back enough and isn't suited to the parking midfield plan.

I think he tracks back enough for our most creative player,if we had better/more cm/dm then we could have better turnover of the ball/possesion and give all of our am more ball in the last 1/3 of the pitch to do what they do best !