BIG CLUBS

[zolayes 14,489]

A topic which usually causes arguements but perhaps a diversion from transfer rumours.

The difficulty usually arises fro the different perceptions of what actually constiutes a" big club"

I will set out my criteria which you are welcome to dispute provided you keep offensive remaarks within bounds. It is acceptable to call me "an old Fool" but not an Idiot.

My criteria:

1 Success on the field .. This is deliberately vague as I will explain later.

2 A large domestic fan base.

3 A world wide fan base.

4 Consistently large attendance figures.

5 Top class facilities and Academy

6The ability to attract the World's best players.

7 The ability to attract sponsors.

Returning to the first criteria ,,I would expand this to prolonged success in winning trophies both domestic and continental.

Now for MY opinions

ENGLAND

1 without question the club which most easily satisfies all 6 of the criteria is

Manchester United. If anyone disputes this I can bore the ass off them with stats

2 close but my second would be

Arsenal ...again they tick all the boxes despite no trophies for 8 years. Again a study of their history should convince sceptics

3 The team I despise most of all

Liverpool.

Well that is my English BIG CLUBS .

Chelsea ... We are a work in progress our success started in the last 10 years

we are still not nationally well supported but it is growing as is our world wide fan base as witnessed by the membership of our forum.

Kenyon was widely derided and his talk of domination ill conceived but he did start to build us a name to be recognised on the global stage.

We do need a larger stadium as do Liverpool.

Summing up ...we are moving closer to matching my criteria ,,perhaps in another 10 years we will be there.

And now north of the border ...

A wonderful country inhabited by savages ..

but two BIG CLUBS ..

It is almost impossible to separate them ... certainly don't get between them on an Old Firms day.

Celtic and Rangers ...Complete domination of the domestic scene ..

now perhaps they lack the finance to attract the World's best but on their reputation and world wide fan base must be considered BIG

and now to Italy ,,,a country and people I love ... I must admit to not being a fan of Italian football.

Putting aside this antipathy

1 Juventus ... the most successful ,,best supported by far of the Italian clubs . Recent times they are in a slump but they are a giant both in Italy

and beyond .

2 I will leave it to members to differentiate between the two Milan rivals .

and that is my Italian BIG 3

we're off to visit sunny Spain ...

Costa Brava in Summer Costa Del Sol in winter.

an undisputed Number 1

Real Madrid ....

2 Their politcal and football rivals

Barcelona

again I could swamp you with stats..but will spare you that ...

Now the floor is yours ...I am hoping that our overseas members will talk about their country and their biggest clubs .

Obviously many couldnt match all the criteria but I would welcome imput about other leagues .

My friend Kostas will I hope talk of Olympiakos and Panathanikos

Kilimanjaro talk of Lyon and Marseilles .

Im not sure if wir habe ein Deutche freund hier.

Finally please Henrique describe the Big Brazillian clubs ..

Look forward to hearin from you.

oh forgot our Irish friends ,,,remiss of me ,,when the first overseas side I saw live was Shamrock Rovers

[dave30 728]

i would say Liverpool are still slightly bigger club than Arsenal . And obviously not in the top few on any other of the criteria but Leeds still have a huge English fan base

[Tomo 21,741]

If you done this on a all fans football forum you would have other fans barrading you with childish comments within seconds, good article never the less tho

Big clubs is not always dependent on trophies, sometimes it can be very misleading, Rangers are considered a big club because they have 52 titles, if they played in English football id be surprised if they even had 5 and if we played in Scotland we'd have a huge number and would have probably one the vast majority of titles since 95 if not all of them.

History is NOT dependent on trophies more tradition, no-one seems to shut up about West Ham's history despite the fact the've never won the league but say we have none even tho pre-Roman or even Bates and Harding we had more than West Ham (even tho bar the thuggery side i cant see how there bigger than us) Rotherham have never won a trophy but id love to see you tell the chuckle brothers that they have no history.

I hate it when we get slated for "lack of youth products" in the last decade as proof our academy's rubbish, so they remember that we produced probably the best forward ever to grace English football? (Jimmy Greaves). Last decade we have fallen short but we have produced great players before and even know we have a fair few that are in playing in the prem or have in the last year or so or a top euro league (Beckford, Cork, C.Cole, Mancienne etc...)

Edited June 2, 2011 by Tomo-91

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Agree with Dave there

1. Manchester United

2. Liverpool

3. Arsenal

[termninja 5,290]

CHELSEA

1 Success on the field +

2 A large domestic fan base (can't answer that because I don't live abroad)

3 A world wide fan base. x (majority of people abroad will answer you United, Barcelona and Real, but we are improving )

4 Consistently large attendance figures. (well SB is full, but 41k isn't that big) +

5 Top class facilities and Academy +

6The ability to attract the World's best players. ++

7 The ability to attract sponsors. +

Just as has been said, we are a growing club with a very big potential.

As for english clubs I'd say,

1. Man United

2. Liverpool

3. Arsenal

[- 25 - 167]

  On 02/06/2011 at 21:17, zolayes said:

And now north of the border ...

A wonderful country inhabited by savages ..

Steady.

I would say that we are superior to Liverpool in every one of your listed criteria, they've just got alot more success historically.

[Tomo 21,741]

Can i just say when i went to Bulgaria last summer, we were by far the most popular english club there, both sports shop's in Vratsa were littered with Chelsea geer i thought i was actually in west london, dont know about the rest of the country but we were sure loved in that town.

[Henrique 9,133]

Brasil is a continent itself. We have 10 big clubs, imo.

Some people say its 13 or 15.

[Blue In Green 86]

In the States, the MLS (and ESPN) has been peddling the New York and LA teams HARD, but they haven't won squat in years or in New York's case, ever. The Galaxy played their cross-town derby against Chivas USA last week and their 20k capacity stadium was half full. New York hasn't sold out a single match this season and MLS wants to bring the Cosmos back, ffs.

The pedigree of the league historically has been D.C. United, though they are one of the worst teams right now. The best performing team in the league right now is Real Salt Lake, who nearly won the CONCACAF Champions League.

The largest fan bases are in the Northwest; Seattle and Vancouver are pulling 30,000+ per match and the only reason Portland isn't is because their stadium only seats around 25k. Dallas and Houston draw well when it isn't 40+ degrees Celsius at kickoff. Toronto had strong fan support as well, but crappy management drove some of them away.

(By the way, I hate the policy of MLS to name every team after a well-known foreign club. "Sporting" Kansas City? Really? Kansas City Wizards wasn't "marketable" enough? You think the Portuguese are going to flock to support this crap team that has five points in eight matches because you named it after Sporting Lisbon?)

[SinineUltra 1,170]

In Estonia, the league itself is weak. Nevertheless, 2 dominant sides are FC Flora and FC Levadia. The latter being a tad better imo. Both are clubs based in Tallinn, capital of Estonia. The fanbase is rather divided, majority of Levadia's fans are russian and Flora's estonian. It feels weird for me to read that 25k stadiums are with small capacity, our own A Le Coq Arena seats only around 10k and it's only full when we play some hot-shot, eg Brazil,Italy. Been to Italy game myself, Brazil game tickets where a rip-off so no go. Considering how small nation we really are, i think Estonian football is doing great, both on club and national front. Atm we are holding 4th position in the group with 7 points from 5 games. In front of us are Italy,Serbia and Slovenia, apart from Italy, every side above us has played one game more.

Major clubs that Levadia, for example, has played are Galatasaray,who had Rijkaard at helm (0-5;1-1) and Newcastle (Obefemi Martins made his debut and scored also & the likes of Scott Parker, Duff, N'Nogbia,Carr etc still played for Newcastle )

Apart from that, agree with your lists, though rate Liverpool higher than Arsenal.

Good thread, Zolayes!

[BlueLion. 21,491]

  On 03/06/2011 at 01:10, Henrique said:

Brasil is a continent itself. We have 10 big clubs, imo.

Some people say its 13 or 15.

Well we have 15 or so big clubs in England as well - the fact of the matter is only a handful are recognised worldwide.

You see Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, United and Newcastle (don't ask why, I have no idea) shirts being worn worldwide, because these are massive football clubs.

However, if you were to ask the average football fan who was the biggest team in Brazil, they'd struggle to answer it. Santos, Corinthians, Gremio are probably the three most popular ones people would be able to name in England.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

Crucial criteria for any club to be called big nowdays is

1. An agressive marketing strategy

2. Widespead TV coverage

[zolayes 14,489]

  On 03/06/2011 at 01:10, Henrique said:

Brasil is a continent itself. We have 10 big clubs, imo.

Some people say its 13 or 15.

please feel free to list your own criteria for what a "Big Club "is . But I think most people consider Brazil is a country not a continent

[irishblue 128]

Well, I suppose I'm not the best one to describe what are the 'big clubs' in Ireland, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Success on the field

2. A large domestic fan base.

3. A world wide fan base.

4. Consistently large attendance figures.

5. Top class facilities and Academy

6. The ability to attract the World's best players.

7. The ability to attract sponsors.

Based on this criteria, for a lot of those options, it's not easy to tell. Without doubt, and as zolayes said, Shamrock Rovers are the biggest club in Ireland. They've won the league the most times, have a relatively big support in the country and I would imagine would be the most well known outside of the country too. As for the fourth option, Tallaght has only got a capacity of 6,000 and before that they didn't have a ground since the 80s. I'm not entirely sure on how the youth system is here so I can't comment on the fifth point. As for sixth and seventh, as it stands the county GAA teams usually get better sponsors than League of Ireland teams and the clubs don't have the funds to attract better players. A lot of clubs have went into financial trouble because of overspending, with two in my list alone. Largely based on success mainly, these would be the best teams in the country:

1. Shamrock Rovers

2. Bohemians

3. Shelbourne

It's not showing very well for teams outside of Dublin, with Cork City historically only coming close to those three for a non-Dublin team.

I'll try and give Germany a go as well. I'm pretty sure that Bayern Munich would be top of that list, they've generally gotten the best out of players, but once again, I'm not sure if they produce many youth players of their own, rather than buying from other clubs. Maybe someone can correct me on this. Borussia Mönchengladbach, in terms of overall success are just behind them. With that being said though, they have some very good players of their own down through the years. Now however, they've pretty much went into decline so it's hard to say. Borussia Dortmund are another German club I'd rank in the top three. Very popular worldwide, and as we've seen this year they've won the league with some products of their academy AFAIK. On this basis I'd go with the these as the top three.

1. Bayern Munich

2. Borussia Dortmund

3. Borussia Mönchengladbach

I'm probably way off with some of them, and sorry for such a long, drawn out post but that is how I'd see it at the moment.

[zolayes 14,489]

Thanks for that post ...

[Shane 2,275]

  On 03/06/2011 at 11:08, irishblue said:

Well, I suppose I'm not the best one to describe what are the 'big clubs' in Ireland, but I'll give it a shot.

1. Success on the field

2. A large domestic fan base.

3. A world wide fan base.

4. Consistently large attendance figures.

5. Top class facilities and Academy

6. The ability to attract the World's best players.

7. The ability to attract sponsors.

Based on this criteria, for a lot of those options, it's not easy to tell. Without doubt, and as zolayes said, Shamrock Rovers are the biggest club in Ireland. They've won the league the most times, have a relatively big support in the country and I would imagine would be the most well known outside of the country too. As for the fourth option, Tallaght has only got a capacity of 6,000 and before that they didn't have a ground since the 80s. I'm not entirely sure on how the youth system is here so I can't comment on the fifth point. As for sixth and seventh, as it stands the county GAA teams usually get better sponsors than League of Ireland teams and the clubs don't have the funds to attract better players. A lot have clubs have went into financial trouble because of overspending, with two in my list alone. Largely based on success mainly, these would be the best teams in the country:

1. Shamrock Rovers

2. Bohemians

3. Shelbourne

It's not showing very well for teams outside of Dublin, with Cork City historically only coming close to those three for a non-Dublin team.

I'll try and give Germany a go as well. I'm pretty sure that Bayern Munich would be top of that list, they've generally gotten the best out of players, but once again, I'm not sure it they produce many youth players of their own, rather than buying from other clubs. Maybe someone can correct me on this. Borussia Mönchengladbach, in terms of overall success are just behind them. With that being said though, they have some very good players of their own down through the years. Now however, they've pretty much went into decline so it's hard to say. Borussia Dortmund are another German club I'd rank in the top three. Very popular worldwide, and as we've seen this year they've won the league with some products of their academy AFAIK. On this basis I'd go with the these as the top three.

1. Bayern Munich

2. Borussia Dortmund

3. Borussia Mönchengladbach

I'm probably way off with some of them, and sorry for such a long, drawn out post but that is how I'd see it at the moment.

How can you give the 3rd place to Shels? There broke and can barely get 1,000 people in the gate. 3 Biggest in Ireland for me is

1.Shamrock Rovers

2. Bohs

3. Derry City

[irishblue 128]

  On 03/06/2011 at 11:22, ShaneCFC said:

How can you give the 3rd place to Shels? There broke and can barely get 1,000 people in the gate. 3 Biggest in Ireland for me is

1.Shamrock Rovers

2. Bohs

3. Derry City

Well to be fair, I did say not to expect much from me on LOI football. But that was more based on success if anything, they used to be one of the better teams in the country and then everything went belly-up. I would've put Derry up there as well but they've had their own troubles too.

[Shane 2,275]

  On 03/06/2011 at 11:27, irishblue said:

Well to be fair, I did say not to expect much from me on LOI football. But that was more based on success if anything, they used to be one of the better teams in the country and then everything went belly-up. I would've put Derry up there as well but they've had their own troubles too.

Clubs in Ireland having troubles? Never!