bleed_blue

There is some massive over rating of Coutinho going on. He has struggled whenever he has faced a more than average defense. He was subbed off at half time after staying anonymous during our game against Livepool. He was anonymous in the liverpool tottenham game as well and he was subbed off after arnd 60 minutes. Liverpool later came back from 1-2 down to win the game 3-2 Similarly against Everton and West Ham. His goals have come against Swansea ( in a 5-0 win when they were resting most of their starting XI for Capital One Cup), Southampton and QPR. His assists have come vs Wigan, Aston Villa, Newcastle and Fulham. He does not have the defensive work rate/responsibility of Oscar.

Chelsea's results with David Luiz in PL 2012-13 When David Luiz started in defense Games played: 22 Wins: 14 Draws: 5 Defeats: 3 Points: 47 Goals for: 40 Goals against: 18 Win percentage: 63.6% Loss percentage: 13.6% Points per game: 2.13 Goals scored per game: 1.81 Goals conceded per game: 0.81 When David Luiz started in midfield Games played: 7 Wins: 5 Draws: 1 Defeats: 1 Points: 16 Goals for: 19 Goals against: 5 Win percentage: 71.4% Loss percentage: 14.2% Points per game: 2.28 Goals scored per game: 2.71 Goals conceded per game: 0.71 When David Luiz did not start Games played: 9 Wins: 3 Draws: 3 Defeats: 3 Points: 12 Goals for: 16 Goals against: 16 Win percentage: 33.3% Loss percentage: 33.3% Points per game: 1.78 Goals scored per game: 1.78 Goals conceded per game: 0.81

He had such a poor game yesterday. He had no business winning that tackle in the middle of the field that led to the Torres goal. That is not how good holding midfielder behave. They should be closing down passing channels and the opposition will automatically give up possession. </sarcasm>

This is the only reason that makes me wish that FSW stays. Now excuse me while I wash my mouth.

I wasn't quite sure you could top your "Mikel is the 2nd best holding midfielder in England after Carrik" line but I was wrong. How can someone say this with a straight face? "I mean Arteta who can't pass for his life"

Let us talk about being unfair. The games in which Mikel was subbed in 1. vs. West Brom at home: we were winning the game 1-0 when he came on for the final 30 seconds of injury time and the score stayed the same. 2. vs West Ham at home: we were winning the game 2-0 when he came on for final 4 minutes and the score stayed the same 3. vs Fulham away: we were winning the game 3-0 when he came on for the final 14 minutes and the score stayed the same. It is completely wrong to add these games under Mikel's name. Infact I have been lenient to him. Here are some of the games where he was subbed out and the games changed 1. vs Reading at home: We were losing 1-2 when he was subbed off after 68 minutes and then we ended up winning the game 4-2 2. vs Stoke at home: we were drawing the game 0-0 when he was subbed off after 81 minutes and we ended up winning the game 1-0 So by your method it would have been 19 games started, 7W/6D/6L. That makes an even more depressing reading, 36.8% winning percentage.

Anyways now that the season is over, here is a look at Chelsea's results in Premier League with Mikel starting vs Mikel not starting With Mikel starting Games: 19 Wins: 9 Draws: 5 Defeats: 5 Points: 32 Goals For: 31 Goals against: 23 Goal Difference: 8 Win %age: 47.3% Loss%age: 26.3% points per game: 1.68 goals scored per game: 1.63 goals conceded per game: 1.21 Without Mikel Games: 19 Wins: 13 Draws: 4 Defeats: 2 Points: 43 Goals for: 44 Goals against: 16 Goal difference: 28 Win %age: 68.4% Loss %age: 10.5% Points per game: 2.26 goals scored per game: 2.31 goals conceded per game:0.84

1. You talk about Luiz leaving the defense open and vulnerable when he plays in midfield. Here is something for you: Luiz started 15 games in midfield. We won 12, drew 1 and lost 2 of those. The 2 we lost with Luiz in midfield were against QPR (when Rafa had a brainfart and rested Ramires, Mata and Hazard) and against Swansea in CoCup (Ivanovic back passes anyone?). So clearly him leaving the defense open and vulnerable has worked well for our results. OR alternatively you are just making stuff up and the ground reality is completely different. 2. Somebody needs to tell you that going to ground and not staying on your feet is not the only way to win tackles. You can stay on your feet and still win tackles. If the job of holding midfielder is to block channels an divert traffic towards lesser dangerous positions, then mind explaining why Chelsea conceded 1.53 goals per game when Mikel started the game vs 0.89 goals per game when Mikel did not start. Clearly this blocking channels strategy of Mikel is not working. OR alternatively you are just making stuff up and the ground reality is completely different. 3. People dont say that we area settling for Luiz, Iva, Azpi, Rami or Oscar because they actually contribute to the team. Regarding your proposition that Mikel is easy to single out because he does an unnoticeable job, mind sharing with us why the same things are not said about other players like Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Schweinstiger, Martinez, Carrick etc. OR alternatively you are just making stuff up and the ground reality is completely different. Finally you lost all credibility with this statement

Exactly. It is like the Vermaelen situation all over again. A defender comes from Ajax to a top level club in England, scores a few goals and suddenly everyone is raving about him. Vermaelen was also in the team of the year in his first season. We all know how that has turned out.

Laughable really. Squawka says Ramires wins 57% of his duels while Mikel wins 53% of his duels (tackles, fouls etc). But what would they know May I suggest an eye examination?

85.2% passing accuracy is disgusting passing. Thanks for letting us know. As for shit load of fouls, in Premier League this season (2012-2013) Ramires: 1.5 fouls per game Mikel: 1.6 fouls per game

Which is obviously not true. Yaya Toure has played 31 games this season in PL for ManCity. They have won 20, drawn 7 and lost 4 of those. Win ratio 64.5% and points per game 2.16 without him, they have played 6 games, winning 3, drawing 2 and losing 1 of those. Win ratio of 50% and points per game 1.83 So, Clearly your claim is FALSE Even if it were not, you have to look at distribution. 31 vs 6 is not a fair comparison because 6 is too small a sample size. Edit: Here are the games they played without Yaya 1. Arsenal away, City won 2-0 2. Fulham at home, City won 2-0 3. QPR away, game drawn 0-0 4. Liverpool at home, game drawn 2-2 5. Everton away, City lost 2-0 6. WBA at home, City won 1-0

Funny you did not reply after your last post, waited for one such reply and then generalized it to everyone.

He said Dzeko is better than Falcao? I read that article about Mikel which Choulo posted and thought to myself that someone has really written a deluded piece, but sweet lord this Dzeko better than Falcao takes the cake.

That is a very poor article. Full of flaws and misunderstandings of stats. But even if one were to take that at face value and assume that Mikel is suited to the CM/CDM role, I will ask the same question again "WHAT IS THIS DEFENSIVE PROTECTION AND SOLIDITY THAT MIKEL PROVIDES WHICH ACTUALLY ENDS UP HURTING OUR RESULTS?

This whole "role of CM is supposed to be one you don't notice", "He'll go about his role unnoticeable" is a hogwash. Busquets plays as CM/CDM in Barcelona's 4231. Do you hear people saying that he goes unnoticed? Xabi Alonso played that role for Liverpool and now does the same for Real Madrid. I don't see people saying he goes unnoticed. Same holds for Schweinsteiger and Martinez at Bayern, Michael Carrick at Manchester United. You say Luiz creates massive gaps in our midfield, Lampard does not offer enough protection. How does that explain our goals conceded per game jumping from 0.89 to 1.53 when Mikel starts. Somehow the CM job that Luiz/Lampard/Ramires end up messing up ensures that we concede lesser goals than with Mikel who does that CM job 'effectively and remains unnoticeable'. While when people point out Mikel's shortcomings, apologists revert back with the usual comment "You don't understand football if you can't appreciate what Mikel does for the team". When I see stats like Our win ratio jumps from 44% to 67% when Mikel is not in the playing XI Our loss ratio falls to 14% from 34% when Mikel is not in the playing XI Our goals conceded per game decrease to 0.89 from 1.53 when Mikel is not in the playing XI Our goals scored per game increase to 2.53 from 1.69 when Mikel is not in the playing XI I ask myself once again What is this defensive protection and solidity that Mikel provides which actually ends up hurting our results?

There is no use arguing with you. It says in your profile that your fav player is Mikel.

Exactly mate. Considering all that trash talk he had done and then his p!ss poor performances, he should at least have had the courtesy to let the players who actually contributed take the center stage. We had 5 europa games where Mikel played no part ( neither Starting XI nor sub) and we won all 5 of them (Sparta Prague away, Rubin Kazan home, Basel home, Basel away and Benfica) He started 3 europa games, we won 1, lost 1 and drew 1 He came on as sub in one game and we went from winning that game 2-1 to losing it 3-2

@Choulo19: Unless we buy another CM/CDM, this Luiz in midfield experiment will continue. No sane manager will start John Obi Mikel ahead of him. I guess you will just have to deal with it.

There has not been a Mikel transfer rumour in the last 7 years and unfortunately there won't be one for the next 4 years as well. Who would want him?

#203

Choulo19, your blind love for Mikel is ruining this conversation. Anyways here are the games where Luiz played in DM and the results 1. Monterray: Chelsea won 3-1 2. Leeds in FA Cup: Chelsea won 5-1 3. Aston Villa in PL at home: Chelsea won 8-0 4. Norwich away in PL: Chelsea won 1-0 5. Everton away in PL: Chelsea won 2-1 6. QPR at home in PL: Chelsea lost 1-0 7. Southampton in FA Cup: Chelsea won 5-1 8. Swansea CoCup 1st leg: Chelsea lost 2-0 9. Wigan at home in PL: Chelsea won 4-1 10. Brantford home in FA Cup: Chelsea won 4-0 11. Basel away in Europa: Chelsea won 2-1 12. Swansea at home in PL: Chelsea won 2-0 13. Basel at home in Europa: Chelsea won 3-1 14. Spurs at home in PL: match draw 2-2 15. Villa away in PL: Chelsea won 2-1 That is 12 wins, 1 draw and 2 defeats in 15 games. In the QPR defeat, our genius manager decided to rest Mata, Hazard and Ramires while in the Swansea loss, Ivanovic had 2 'moments' You can invent new ways to criticize him but the bottom line is we get the results when he is in DM.

At a club that is used to John Obi Mikel's regularly disappearing on the field, his toothless back passing; I would say each and every game that Luiz has started in midfield has been 'great'

kneejerk much? Who would you rather play in the midfield then out of our other midfielders? Yes he was at fault for the second goal but its not like our other midfielders don't make those mistakes. Mikel lost Nasri in the FA CUp semi but with Luiz you have an upside that he will contribute the occasional goal and also he will make something happen with our possession rather than passing them back to our CBs.

Since Mikel's return from African's Nations Cup, he has started 9 games for us. We have won 3, drawn 2 and lost 4 of them. In the 14 games during this period when Mikel did not start, we have won 12, drawn 1 and lost 1. The one we drew, he played as a sub for 38 minutes and the one we lost, he came on after 60 minutes when we were leading 2-1 and ended up losing 3-2.