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With all due respect to Nigeria, the country, but their national team still has some ways to go to be comparared to Brazil. Just saying that breaking into Brazil's team, especially at a young age as Oscar did is no small feat. Think about the Brazilian players who DID NOT make it - not called up - this time around. Just to mention a few: Fernandinho (21m City player), William, our own Ramires, Kaka, and we could go into less known players whose valuation would still be above 10m. BTW, Oscar started in every match... Still kudos to Mikel for a good performance in the Conf Cup.

starting for Chelsea means he will get one or at the most two opportunities to score when we play one of our rivals (or any tough CL match). It's really unfair to demand that level of effectiveness from a 20-year-old.

Andre actually impressed me against AC Milan. Fitness level varies tremendously amongst the players on the pitch, so I expect some players, especially the pacey/powerful ones to have an early advantage in these types of games. However, what I am looking for is in the details: first touch (key), the non-obvious pass, the shooting, the overall technique. Andre has very good first touch and that is very important in an attacker because he never given much time on the ball. That's IMO what differentiates a decent/good squad player from a rotation/first team player. I see potential in him to fight for a starting position very soon.

someone ought to tell Ramires he is playing a friendly match...

interesting points. We've been playing long balls for a decade now. I bet we've played even more long balls when Drogba was with us as it would only make sense. I will still take it with a grain of salt considering that applying pressure to our deepest midfielder can't be done by any BPL teams but the absolute top. And frankly I just thought he was just not great regardless of opposition or conditions, under pressure or not. I just look at him and see an average player who does nothing terrible, but isn't influential enough in that key position. All in all, considering your fair points, they at the most make Mikel a good/decent squad player, perhaps even rotation in the right condition, but not a starter. Again, because our opponents have players in the same position (or similar) who are just better, more versatile, that can contribute in different ways and conditions. I am certainly looking forward to the beginning of the season. I'm terribly curious about how much the short squad affected our overall play last season. I honestly believe the lack of options did hurt, but it's been overstated. It's a fan's wishful thinking where his players are never at fault; they just did not have enough rest. I just don't buy that.

#1) obviously we have different preferences, but at the end of the day what matters is the team. Fact is that our pivot was not strong enough last season, and Mikel was part of that as was Lampard and Ramires. Winning ratio is the only stat that matters. #2) I have a real hard time with that statement. Most of Mikel supporters claim his atrocious attacking stats are due to him sitting very deep, and now you say he's constantly under pressure... BTW, I reckon we just value certain attributes differently: you praise his ball retention skills and I think it's one of the most overrated abilities. There are tons of mediocre players (mean average) who can hold and protect the ball well. Gareth Barry is a prime example of a player who does little else. Scott Parker is another one. These guys actually do ok in England but get destroyed in Europe.

Same as any other stats including the ones you point to: it's all relative to opponents tactics as well. When the opponent considers mikel not an offensive threat, and rightfully so, they don't pressure him and then he has more freedom with his passing than other players.Personally, I pay more attention to the team numbers than the indidual's; it's a team sport after all. Key word his is average.

Liking/wanting and actually pulling it off are completely different things. Good luck playing counter against a bottom-feeder at home. So, how do you see Moses in the upcoming season? What are your predictions? Mine is that he's squad player and not even rotation. Once again would love to be proven wrong (wish Ba had done that) but I doubt it.

trying and take players on is certainly not what Suarez is known for, so I'm surprised you ever thought that. Suarez is a poacher and not a passive one; he will harass the defenders until they make a mistake and then he will score. That's exactly what he did against us in the dying minuted of the match when they tied us @the bridge.

^^ right on! still remember his poor performance against Corinthians. He just couldn't handle tight marking and the physical game proposed by Corinthians in the WCC final. He is a pacey player who needs spaces and he will find plenty of those in friendlies with very loose marking. He can improve as he is still pretty young. I reckon the Oscar/Hazard boat has sailed for him though - that quality is just not attainable. However, as I've said a few times before, judging player potential is far more difficult than current ability.

OK, we completely disagree on the following: 1. You think Mikel is hindered - somehow - by Chelsea team even though he's been through several different managers and teammates. He's been playing for Chelsea for a long time and I've never seen any evidence pointing to managers telling him to sit back. I believe he doesn't have the movement/pace to do it, and since the whole Nigeria team play for him, his lack of pace isn't so much a problem for them. That will NEVER happen at CHelsea. 2. You say Nigeria are not mediocre (moderate quality, ordinary), but you also say Mikel is their best player, but is just a good player for Chelsea. So, how can a "just good DM" be Nigeria's best player if they are so good a side? BTW, ACN means very little to me - far less than Copa America. Sorry just don't think much of African football. 3. You believe he is good enough. I believe any of the players mentioned, including Khedira would be a vast improvement over Mikel. Because I believe our midfield has not been good enough and fielding the same players will just hand the title to City once again. 4. Finally, for being so bad attacking--think we all agree on this--he should be IMO at lot better defensively! Like a Makelele. BTW, Luiz Gustavo starts for Brazil and Khedira (not long ago) was a regular starter for Germany... I won't go into football pecking order...

You are focusing too much on goals, and what concerns me the most is there lack of assists, which showcases his narrow range of passing. All players I've mentioned play very deeply in their teams as well. And the formation we've been using for the entire season does not have a DM anyway, so Mikel certainly has the freedom to move up the field, if he had the mobility to do that (he's just too slow though). I don't buy the Nigeria argument either: Mikel has had enough time to display any of the quality you say he has for Chelsea and frankly the numbers speak for themselves: no goals and no assists! It actually worries me we have 3 players from a side as mediocre as Nigeria, but that's a different discussion. It's funny people compare Mikel to Makelele, since the latter was one of the most mobile (pacey too) players I've ever seen while Mikel is the least mobile midfielder I've ever seen. While Mikel is always chasing the play, Makelele could outrun a take the ball away from most other players. Still, the game has changed and I don't see many Makelele's playing for top sides any more.

That's the exact same argument from the ppl who criticize David Luiz for doing too much... Why would a defender score goals? because he has the quality to do it and becomes an asset because of his unique ability. Same goes for a DM. BTW, I've just list the stats of other DMs... so would you call Mikel's inability to create (goals OR assists) in attack an asset?

I don't think you can go any worse than Mikel when you consider how poor he has been (attacking wise) for Chelsea: (played/goals/assists) Gustavo:16(6) 4 1 Khedira: 19(6) 3 2 Mikel: 19(3) - -

Getting Rooney to play him as CAM makes no sense to me. I bet Mourinho has promised him a starting position as a striker. Frankly we've got enough attacking mids in the squad to form two teams. Besides Rooney is not a very good CAM IMO.

Juan Mata: games: 31 Assists: 12 goals: 12 That makes it 24 direct participation in goals in 31 matches. Sometimes, we must revisit our opinions/ideas when reality tells a different story. He certainly has deficiencies, but passing is certainly NOT one of them.

2 subs GK who are not expected to play and who are not homegrown... difficult to understand.

Corinthians vs Gremio on espn3 (online - in the US) pretty good game right now... just started... Sorry OT

Incidentally, Fajitas, Burritos, etc are not found in South America. well, perhaps in the equatorial region. I know that Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina don't have that. First time I ate a Burrito or any "Mexican" food -- authentic or not -- was in the USA. First time I (tried to) eat a Tamale I wasn't aware I wasn't supposed to eat the banana leaves... Back to Mata... I reckon much of the speculation stems from the contract discussions; he's a very expensive player and the club is certainly taking their time negotiating. Mata could, for instance, demand Rooney esque wages to force a transfer, not that I'd expect him to do that though.

imagine we are leading Stokes by a goal away from home when they start? playing long balls into our box exclusively (without the usual sideway pass for good measure). That's one of the very few ways one can diminish the influence of a great midfield and midfielders -- by avoiding them altogether. If you are defending against such strategy, why not replacing a midfielder with a defender? But then you lose a midfielder when you have possession and have trouble keeping it--you end up playing long balls yourself. However, what if you already have a defender on the pitch who can also play in the midfield? Just add another defender and give him even more freedom to join the midfield when in possession. Essentially with David you get the 3rd defender, when defending long balls, without losing the midfielder, because in possession he moves into the midfield. Ppl are missing the point here: David is so special because he has the ability to join the midfield when attacking and sometimes defending (applying pressure with high line) EVEN when playing CB! That's precisely what differentiates him from a simpler defender who can only block and kick it upfield.

Are you guys not talking about "work rate"? Or perhaps work rate with and without possession? Work rate is just as much a mental trait as it is physical. I don't think Rooney has ever shown high work rate, but it has been declining. He even does not look as fit as he once did. Yes, it matters! Dedication during a match won't mean much if the player is physically incapable due to slacking in practice. I'm really unhappy with our striker situation. The only interesting player -- great prospect but awfully young -- is Lukaku.

Sure did. Still think he will not play much -- both Torres and Lukaku will play more even if we don't sign anyone -- and he will still be quite content come next transfer window.

Translation: another leach on wages way above what any other club would offer him... He will never leave.

I think you meant 40m - Torres bid...

No, I understood you point. I just consider Ba an awful player and that's the reason I think Torres is better; Torres is not an awful player, even now. Torres is an awful player if you consider his wages, expectation, and fee. However, as an alternative, he's quite interesting. I just look a their technical ability and really don't see enough in Ba's play to justify him as a Chelsea player. He's got a poor first touch, can't turn, isn't strong enough (goes to the ground way to often for a guy of his build), isn't quick enough, can't link up play. Scoring goals, which he also hasn't been able to do, is just part of the deal for a top team. We cannot afford having a pole in the box these days. Again I compare Ba to our opponent's options and I'd rather have any one of them over Ba. Edit: I guess I'd also take most of them over Torres too. Oh well.