robsblubot

Eto lacks pace -- big surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

Eto lacks pace -- bit surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

Eto lacks pace -- bit surprise... Off-the-ball movement has been atrocious.

we are talking about different things here. Quality is quality! Let's not label it or categorize it, just recognize it can be bought and top clubs do just that. That's why guys like David are worth big money too! What I am talking about, however, is the trick of making quality players produce the defensive work necessary to win titles; that's what makes Mourinho a top manager in my view. We could go into single-elimination ratios and goals, but bringing Basketball or American football in the discussion is wrong because those are higher scoring games, and football/soccer is a low scoring game. Especially in single-elimination competitions conceding a goal is often the end of it, especially in finals. Go trhough many finals and look at the scores; they are going to be low... very low and whoever scores first has a huge advantage. Now, I don't think mata can defend if you hold a gun to his head. I hope I am wrong, but that's how I see him. Allow me illustrate my point: is Ribery a defensive player? Or the fact he can apply pressure on the ball and regain possession high up the pitch a defensive trait? Does it help scoring goals? If so, how can it be defensive? The fact Mata is not very good defensively cannot be seen as a mere characteristic, but rather what it is, a deficiency! Yes, he's still an excellent player, but just not as good as make him out to be here... again very IMHO.

Yes, it's all about the defense; it does win titles btw (while offense sells tickets and shirts). For me, and I reckon Mourinho too, the bold dilemma above is no dilemma at all. I'm very aware of Mata's numbers. It is my belief, however, that 2 Matas are already 2 too many (Hazard being the other one). Same reasoning why you would not play with 3 or 4 players with Mata characteristics, or play a player like that as CM. It's just that at certain level these details do matter and I think that's exactly where Mourinho excels: handling the finer details of top top level sides.

what's his contract situation? I heard he was in talks for a renewal, but nothing since then. I reckon this is certainly part of what is going on. Perhaps Chelsea (no so much Mourinho) are showing Mata he is not *that* important for the money his agent may be asking... I maintain my position that it is very difficult to accommodate both Hazard and Mata in any starting XI.

agree in principle, but not about the cash-even top ones.. GK aren't sold for a lot of cash, perhaps the position least valuable in football. I think Petr is a top GK but I don't agree he is number one; I see many other GK just as good, especially these younger ones. Lloris is already fantastic! What he did against Arsenal, even though they lost that match, was incredible. Not that Arsenal played that much better, but they had a clear cup chances in counters which were stopped by LLoris. Liverpool's Mignolet is class too-a lot better than the overrated Reina. I too think it would be a mistake to lose Courtois and if the right offer comes in, Petr should be sold. It'd be a good thing for him too because they do make money out of the transfer itself, bonuses etc. It could be a nice farewell gift/"last contract" for him.

I'm just not sure it's about quality, but rather characteristics (and yes a bit of quality too). Giroud can play in tight spaces, Ba and Torres need space to maneuver, which was honestly a big disappointment (for me) concerning Ba because I thought a guy of his build would be able to use his body to play in tight spaces. Neither have the short passing, quick dribbling that you see Oscar do for example (from futsal). Neither can head the ball very well. Giroud I reckon has more of that, but I agree we still need to see it happen. Playing for a big club like Chelsea is a bit different (understatement) than playing for newcastle, all due respect. That's *probably* the reason Chelsea are still not convinced Lukaku is really ready, because WBA play counter-attacking football and Lukaku had a lot of space to work with. Everton will be the real test for him as they play more as a possession side, even their strikers/players aren't that quick. Anyway, can't wait... this season is shaping up real good.

No, I did not. Because it adds nothing to a discussion or a thread. Same to you buddy. Imagine if we bought players as poor as Torres and Ba for the amount of money we did (including wages here spec for Ba) Chelsea would be in the gutters... How about we start discussing the merits of the argument rather than how we feel about each others opinions? I am entitled and do feel the same way about opinions contrary to mine, but at least I take the time to argue. This is going to be Giroud's second season in the Premiere, so I reckon he's going to surprise a lot of people. He's a good footballer. I look at him, not just go to whoscored.com, and see a player who can go past his man (more so now because he's gained some pace), can head the ball, and is OK playing in tight spaces. Neither Ba nor Torres can do all of that (spec heading part). So, in my personal opinion, Giroud is better and more complete than both. BTW, Ba would have joined Arsenal on loan to replace Bendtner, not Giroud who would be the starter, as he should be.

lol moron! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL :lol: wow feel younger already...

lol I'd trade Giroud for both Ba and Torres in a heartbeat....

It's not that Mikel is not aggressive enough, but rather he's actually very passive for the role of an enforcer. He should be able to infringe physical pain when things get rough and I just don't see that in him; Toure does that, and so does Ramires. I like Tiote as well, but he's too much like Ramires, like you said. I'd rather go a for a tall midfielder, who is still more mobile and aggressive than Mikel, perhaps Capoue (now @Spurs). Perhaps MVG is going to be molded into the role (CM rather than DM though).

Just don't understand the surprise by the club that they were unable to unload Ba... Something predicted by a few of us on Demba Ba's Thread. He's a decent player on high wages, which is a bad combo. Chelsea wouldn't want to loan him and still pay over 50% of his wages, and only a club like Arsenal would be able to afford his full wages. No surprise we've been having trouble unloading unwanted players... thought WC proximity would help more in that regard.

agreed. And I reckon he won't be getting too many games at pool either. I don't think he's good enough for Rotation at Chelsea. We now have rotation players who can come on and influence the game, which is something Moses cannot do. Andre, KDB, and Willian are far better footballers.

Completely agree! he scored(?!) the goal, but that was it. Poor first touch, movement, decision making... he had a poor game actually. Always goes for the dribble vs the assist/pass. Suarez is twice the player. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have him than Ba, but then don't think Ba asked for a first team/key player deal which is what I reckon Sturridge did.

Oscar has short passing, short dribbling skills that are extremely helpful in tight spaces aka big matches... He started playing soccer in futsal, saloon football with a smaller heavier (lighter these days) football. Always fucking hated playing futsal, because of the constant tight spaces, but that's why I'm a better tennis player than footballer. The fact a 21/22 yo consistently starts for Brazil should be all evidence one needs.

yeah but I don't think Chelsea (not just Mou) want Terry playing twice a week.

That's debatable. Ba is still with us because of his relative high wages, which is the same reason we cannot move Torres. It would be a lot fairer if Torres and Ba were earning the same amount. However, I agree that we could say Ba is a better deal for the buck right now, but if we cannot move him without having to pay part of his wages, then he'd be in the same boat as Torres: the unflushables...

All players are greedy by definition, that's what being professional means; that means you only do what you do for money, never for free. All professional players I've ever met think about two things: money and girls. Yes, playing the CL also means more exposure, which leads to more money (not only salary but sponsors). So, people get all excited when a player wants "CL football" even though it really means play for a bigger club that offers more exposure, which leads to more money. A hefty paycheck can squash any idea of seeking an adventure here or there, especially if the professional has a family. it becomes difficult to justify, esp to the better half, why not go for the better deal possible. Remember footballer's careers are relatively short, especially for strikers. So, they must make all the money they can in 10 or so years, or life can become interesting later on. BTW, companies do the same. They have incentives like stock grants (RSUs) which are internally called "golden locks." Just for fun: http://www.salary-money.com/fernando-torres-salary-euro-450000.php#.Uh-uwLxhLkE

He does (want to do better) but all that changes every time he goes pick up (figuratively) his paycheck... wonder why...

Fair enough, but Spain were not very good in the conf cup. Italy gave them a much harder time than Nigeria for example - not to mention Brazil trashing. Mickel also, when playing for Nigeria, hardly gets harassed when carrying from deep, so he has time to build up his own speed. BPL games are far more dynamic and Mikel lacks pace. That's less of a problem for Nigeria than it is for Chelsea. Although I wish we had better than Mickel, I do agree that we cannot afford to sell him without getting a replacement. Unless Essien miraculously recovers some of his game.

Cahill is English... and Ba was a panic signing. That explains a lot about what's been going on with Mata; they must be having some very serious money talks.

That agent needs a name change ASAP ^^ well, he might panic in Jan if he is not getting enough games and is dropped by Nigeria, like Ba was (by Senegal).

^^ yeah what BMK wrote. Work rate can be improved to some extent but not much. It's more of a physical and mental trait. Ramires for example is on the other end of the spectrum from Mata, when work rate is concerned. Mata is not that quick either and I doubt there is much he can do to fix that. However, I don't think Mata and Oscar have much in common and should not compete for the same spot. In fact, I like Oscar best when he plays deep and dictate tempo. Then again, perhaps Mourinho doesn't really want to employ a pure CAM like Mata and want a player who can drop deep when needed, and that is Oscar. So, this decision is more about strategy than names. But then, why isn't Mata playing on the wings either? Mata could've done what KDB did against United for ex.

Yeah but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Maybe his agent is a real douche and/or Mata might have instructed him to play hardball and get that key player deal he wants. Or maybe they really have no intention of selling him and just getting his fitness levels up; or perhaps Mourinho truly does not rate him as highly as most of us here do. Difficult to know for sure from the outside.