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Jason

closed Chelsea 0-2 Liverpool

Started by Jason,

Man of the Match   17 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your Man of the Match?

    • Kepa
      2
    • James
      1
    • Zouma
      1
    • Christensen
      0
    • Alonso
      0
    • Jorginho
      0
    • Kovacic
      0
    • Kante
      2
    • Werner
      8
    • Havertz
      0
    • Mount
      0
    • Tomori (sub)
      3
    • Abraham (sub)
      0
    • Barkley (sub)
      0

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

865 posts in this topic
2 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Which Man City game are we talking about? The 2:1 win for us, in which Pulisic punished the Mendy mistake and Fernandinho getting a red card+penalty rewarded. Willian then scored the penalty.

I just remember we played very deep against City and Pulisic and the Fernandinho red combined with the rewarded penalty won us the game.

Willian btw is much better player as Mount and I am not even a Willian fan.

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That game or the away game but the point is, we showed that we can compete with those teams in a game, without our new signings last season. So, it doesn't make sense to suggest that missing some players meant that we should be forgiven for being so passive today.

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2 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Maybe not. If him playing in the middle is really much better, its not a bad shout. My point was that is unrealistic to expect too much from him so soon., at least after his Brighton showing.

Ironically though, I thought the few contributions he made in today's game were pretty decent. His square pass in the first half to set up Kante (of all people) was brilliant. Hope to see more of that.

No one is asking Havertz to score or assist in every game, especially not at his point, but at least let him feel comfortable, build his confidence by playing him right. Last thing we would want is, before he even settles, we destroy his confidence because he's not able contribute to the team.

4 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Yes, it might have meant more attacking threat. But that's a big MAYBE. What is more certain is that we would have been more open in midfield.

I will admit that you can question the manager and ask why he didn't ask the players today to get closer to Liverpool.

Anyway in hindsight, its possible to name a lot of options that may have worked better, given that we got the worst possible result from the one option he went with.

Granted it wasn't a full strength Liverpool XI back then but it was still close to being that, we played Gilmour, Barkley, Kovacic, Willian, Pedro and Giroud against them in the FA Cup and won with a very good performance. 

Not saying we would have won today but would say a front six of Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Havertz, CHO and Werner not have able to produce a similar kind of performance at the very least? 

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That game or the away game but the point is, we showed that we can compete with those teams in a game, without our new signings last season. So, it doesn't make sense to suggest that missing some players meant that we should be forgiven for being so passive today.


We could compete and still lost the match regardless.

Today, if Jorgi scored the penalty, we would have lost 2:1. If AC does not get his stupid red, maybe even 1 point or a win was possible. Kepa also does not help winning games. Pool looked clueless against us and we were competing with them. It is hard to compete against Pool with 10 men. We still had chances with Werner and Tammy. And "being passive" . I mean it worked really well til AC got sent off with an unnecessary challange. We defended well overall, even with 10 men. We won many games in the past by being passive like with Mou and Conte.

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1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

We could compete and still lost the match regardless.

If we are gonna lose, then we might as well go down swinging. 

1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

Today, if Jorgi scored the penalty, we would have lost 2:1. If AC does not get his stupid red, maybe even 1 point or a win was possible. Kepa also does not help winning games. Pool looked clueless against us and we were competing with them. It is hard to compete against Pool with 10 men. We still had chances with Werner and Tammy. And "being passive" . I mean it worked really well til AC got sent off with an unnecessary challange. We defended well overall, even with 10 men. We won many games in the past by being passive like with Mou and Conte.

There is a lot of ifs and buts there. Maybe we have different definition of "competing" here. Restricting the opposition while setting up to counter attack is one thing but have a go at the opposition, have a clear idea how to go about hurting them on the counter attack. We did the former well but did we do the latter right? Are you gonna tell me lumping long balls up to Havertz was a legitimate plan? Other than that, the plan was hoping Werner did something. Otherwise, nothing was coming from Mount and from the midfield as well as the full backs. 

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With Werner, I see a similar pattern to Hazard when he arrived in 2012. He also won 2 penalties in his first two League games and in the third match, he scored one pen himself. Timo will be the same against WBA :cig:

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

If we are gonna lose, then we might as well go down swinging. 

The problem is we'll never know because the plan never had the opportunity to play out. If it was still 0-0 going into the last 10-15 minutes and we could start to impose ourselves on them then it would have been deemed a Mourinho esque masterstroke.

We lost at Anfield last season in the first half being far too bold and open trying to fight fire with them. With the players we had out today, and Werner and Havertz still adjusting, it would have been suicidal to use this approach. 

Our biggest problem continues to be huge individual mistakes. It could have cost us against Brighton and it definitely did today.

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17 minutes ago, killer1257 said:


 

 


We could compete and still lost the match regardless.

Today, if Jorgi scored the penalty, we would have lost 2:1. If AC does not get his stupid red, maybe even 1 point or a win was possible. Kepa also does not help winning games. Pool looked clueless against us and we were competing with them. It is hard to compete against Pool with 10 men. We still had chances with Werner and Tammy. And "being passive" . I mean it worked really well til AC got sent off with an unnecessary challange. We defended well overall, even with 10 men. We won many games in the past by being passive like with Mou and Conte.

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Exactly my point.

For once, we did not look tactically naïve against a big team.

Eliminate those mistakes, and we would have most likely come away with a point at least. Which is not bad, considering the lack of first 11 players.

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There is a lot of ifs and buts there. Maybe we have different definition of "competing" here. Restricting the opposition while setting up to counter attack is one thing but have a go at the opposition, have a clear idea how to go about hurting them on the counter attack. We did the former well but did we do the latter right? Are you gonna tell me lumping long balls up to Havertz was a legitimate plan? Other than that, the plan was hoping Werner did something. Otherwise, nothing was coming from Mount and from the midfield as well as the full backs. 


We won the title with Mourinho and in almost every big match, we basically parked the bus and then Cesc played one World class pass to Costa, who scored the goal. We did nothing else in those matches. It worked and we won the title. And playing long balls is something Chelsea used to do all the time. I do not remember a time, in which we played Barcelona tiki taka football. It was always long balls to Drogba or Costa. Werner is not able to be a target man and Havertz has to do his part. Neither Kante,Mount Kova nor Jorgi are world class passers like Thiago or Cesc are. If we had one truly world class ball playing midfielder, our play would look much better. Sadly, we will go for a guy like Rice next lol.

For me, Alonso and Mount are not good enough and RJ is nowhere near the level of Lamptey for instance. I do not expect much from them anyway. Alonso could have gone more forward and Salah would have had a much better game. I mean, Salah and Mane are no joke. Mane said in his post match that they really struggled against us til AC got a red card. That is exactly how I saw the match as well.

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6 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The problem is we'll never know because the plan never had the opportunity to play out. If it was still 0-0 going into the last 10-15 minutes and we could start to impose ourselves on them then it would have been deemed a Mourinho esque masterstroke.

We lost at Anfield last season in the first half being far too bold and open trying to fight fire with them. With the players we had out today, and Werner and Havertz still adjusting, it would have been suicidal to use this approach. 

Our biggest problem continues to be huge individual mistakes. It could have cost us against Brighton and it definitely did today.

No one is asking us to go gung-ho on Liverpool them but is it asking too much for a bit more attacking intent?

And since playing offensively or defensively makes no difference at the moment because of the individual mistakes, yeah, might as well have a bit more of a go. 

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24 minutes ago, Jason said:

No one is asking Havertz to score or assist in every game, especially not at his point, but at least let him feel comfortable, build his confidence by playing him right. Last thing we would want is, before he even settles, we destroy his confidence because he's not able contribute to the team.

Granted it wasn't a full strength Liverpool XI back then but it was still close to being that, we played Gilmour, Barkley, Kovacic, Willian, Pedro and Giroud against them in the FA Cup and won with a very good performance. 

Not saying we would have won today but would say a front six of Kante, Kovacic, Mount, Havertz, CHO and Werner not have able to produce a similar kind of performance at the very least? 

Well, then the real question is whether CHO and Havertz would have done better in lieu of Pedro/Willian and taken the game to Liverpool. And mind, Gilmour was having the game of his life against the Liverpool midfield in that game.

Firminho was also absent for that game (including Henderson, if I'm correct).

Might have to agree to disagree here, but I have my doubts whether we would have been able to replicate those tactics with the players we had today.

I think we would have been ripped to shreds, but that's my opinion.

I think playing defensively like we did today was the right call.

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15 minutes ago, Milan said:

With Werner, I see a similar pattern to Hazard when he arrived in 2012. He also won 2 penalties in his first two League games and in the third match, he scored one pen himself. Timo will be the same against WBA :cig:

Is Werner's penalty record good?

Would love to see him take over. It would be nice to give him more ownership of the team.

Jorginho is a big hit or miss for me in that department

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Is Werner's penalty record good?
Would love to see him take over. It would be nice to give him more ownership of the team.
Jorginho is a big hit or miss for me in that department
Scored 10 out of 14 penalties.

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1 minute ago, killer1257 said:


We won the title with Mourinho and in almost every big match, we basically parked the bus and then Cesc played one World class pass to Costa, who scored the goal. We did nothing else in those matches. It worked and we won the title. And playing long balls is something Chelsea used to do all the time. I do not remember a time, in which we played Barcelona tiki taka football. It was always long balls to Drogba or Costa. Werner is not able to be a target man and Havertz has to do his part. Neither Kante,Mount Kova nor Jorgi are world class passers like Thiago or Cesc are. If we had one truly world class ball playing midfielder, our play would look much better. Sadly, we will go for a guy like Rice next lol.

For me, Alonso and Mount are not good enough and RJ is nowhere near the level of Lamptey for instance. I do not expect much from them anyway. Alonso could have gone more forward and Salah would have had a much better game. I mean, Salah and Mane are no joke. Mane said in his post match that they really struggled against us til AC got a red card. That is exactly how I saw the match as well.

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Problem is, that wasn't sustainable as shown the following season. If we want a title or CL at all costs this season fine play as shithouse as nessesery but we're suppose to be building our next great team, in a process like that you play "your way" and take the growing pains on the chin.

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1 minute ago, killer1257 said:

Scored 10 out of 14 penalties.

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Look's like he isn't Eden Hazard then.

 

sigh...miss having penalty takers like Lampard and Hazard. 

Willian was also pretty surefire from the spot.

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1 minute ago, Blue Armour said:

Look's like he isn't Eden Hazard then.

 

sigh...miss having penalty takers like Lampard and Hazard. 

Willian was also pretty surefire from the spot.

I think Havertz might be 100% in his career from the spot.

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5 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Well, then the real question is whether CHO and Havertz would have done better in lieu of Pedro/Willian and taken the game to Liverpool. And mind, Gilmour was having the game of his life against the Liverpool midfield in that game.

That lineup would have Havertz as the No.10 and Mount and CHO as the wingers. Of course, we don't know how that might have panned out but we would have likely given Liverpool more to think about than what we eventually put up.

7 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Might have to agree to disagree here, but I have my doubts whether we would have been able to replicate those tactics with the players we had today.

I think we would have been ripped to shreds, but that's my opinion.

I think playing defensively like we did was the right call.

We didn't exactly play on the front foot all game in that cup game. We were also playing on the break but with far more attacking intent and threat against them. What did we have today besides Werner and to an extent Havertz?

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1 minute ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I think Havertz might be 100% in his career from the spot.

Interesting.

Am hoping he settles in to the team soon enough, so that he can start moving up the pecking order.

Jorginho seems to have no plan B with penalties. Its always about placement. 

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7 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Jorginho is a big hit or miss for me in that department

He has missed only 2 penalties for us - one today and the other in the League Cup final penalty shootout. If anything, it's his style that maybe doesn't fill one with the greatest of confidence.

6 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Look's like he isn't Eden Hazard then.

sigh...miss having penalty takers like Lampard and Hazard. 

Willian was also pretty surefire from the spot.

Scoring 10 out of 14 penalties is hardly a bad record, is it? It's not like Lampard did not miss a few penalties in his career. Same goes with Hazard.

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2 minutes ago, Jason said:

We didn't exactly play on the front foot all game in that cup game. We were also playing on the break but with far more attacking intent and threat against them. What did we have today besides Werner and to an extent Havertz?

No one really, and I think that was accepted from the beginning.

Yes we would have been more attacking with other lineups, but we would have leaked more goals. Would you have accepted that?

Some fans would have. Like @Tomo said, if its part of 'growing pains' then so be it.

 

 

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