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Jason

6. Thiago Silva

Started by Jason,

181 posts in this topic
11 hours ago, petre.ispirescu said:

No disrespect to Azpilicueta he is a big influence at the club, but he is no captain material if you ask me, Thiago Silva should be given the armband the second he steps a foot at Cobham and he should definitely be the loudest on the pitch, genuine WC defender hopefully his presence will have a similar impact to Van Dijk's arrival at Liverpool. Granted they have better defenders, but still T. Silva's presence alone should be of massive importance.

Nah, silva is 36,we have to see how he can cope with epl especially if we defend the same way as last season. 

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12 hours ago, Jype said:

Really excited by this signing.

JT had one of the best seasons of his career at 35 and played every single minute of the PL season in 14/15 so let's hope Silva can still have a big impact too. 

At his age he might not be able to play two games a week anymore but he's still a big improvement and most importantly he's an in-game leader that team have been crying out for since JT left. Expecting big things from him, even if relying on him is not a long-term plan. 

With Silva in the squad for the next season or two the club can start planning for a longer term replacement but the CB area should not be an immediate problem anymore.

Really smart contract management by the club too. A one year deal with club option of a second year minimizes risks but if he's still as good as we're hoping him to be the option will surely be used. If not, he will just play a squad role this season and be released next year. At least he can't be worse than what we saw this year.

Silva would have been a PERFECT partner for Terry back in the day. Can you imagine having Silva coming in as a 23 yo old back in summer of  2007? (2007-08 was .Ricardo Carvalho's last decent year for us, and eve then he was injured)

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43 minutes ago, communicate said:

Nah, silva is 36,we have to see how he can cope with epl especially if we defend the same way as last season. 

he coped damn well with Bayern, etc this season, I don't think West Ham or Brighton, or Arse, or NUFC or Everton, etc etc are going to punk him, and I expect he will fare decently against Shitty and the Bindippers as well

I do not think anyone expects him to be a 35 to 39yo Maldini.(Maldini at 35yo came in 3rd behind Pavel Nedved and Thierry Henry in the 2003 Ballon d'Or on the 22nd of December 2003, and was a month away from turning 41yo , (and still a starter) when he retired in 2009, as a 31 year long one club man, 5 times European Cup/CL winner and 3 times world champion) Maldini was the UEFA European Defender of the Year at 38yo (was actually 39 when he was awarded it it), which is just madness.

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4 minutes ago, Vesper said:

he coped damn well with Bayern, etc this season, I don't think West Ham or Brighton, or Arse, or NUFC or Everton, etc etc are going to punk him, and I expect he will fare decently against Shitty and the Bindippers as well

I do not think anyone expects him to be a 35 to 39yo Maldini.(Maldini at 35yo came in 3rd behind Pavel Nedved and Thierry Henry in the 2003 Ballon d'Or on the 22nd of December 2003, and was a month away from turning 41yo , (and still a starter) when he retired in 2009, as a 31 year long one club man, 5 times European Cup/CL winner and 3 times world champion) Maldini was the UEFA European Defender of the Year at 38yo (was actually 39 when he was awarded it it), which is just madness.

Psg played marquinhos, paredes and Herrera in front of him. 

If we are known to protect our d line, sure no problem. But we ask our defender to defend large space, sometimes both of our fb push up high and we have jorgi and kova as dm. 

 

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2 hours ago, Vesper said:

3 points

1. you are using genetic freaks for examples (I can make a list but I will spare us all), the vast majority of players are shit by 32, 33yo in terms of top 10 teams on the planet play. Iwill grant that there are 4 positions who age better. Strikers, SOME CB's, Pirlo (another genetic freak btw) type deep-lying registas, and obviously GKers.

Trad DMF's, most all wingers, most other types of MFers, and almost all fullbacks are done far sooner

2. we did not have FFP to deal with in the noughties, so 'dead money' buys were ok

3. Silva was a free transfer, Koulibaly will still cost damn near £70m or so, I would wager, and he showed slippage last season

Im just saying its pointless to point out age for every single player, nevermind state he is soon 30, should avoid etc.

Also Silva is 36, when he was 30 he wouldnt be free transfer.

Football is going in the way where players play for longer thanks to better training and nutrition. Nowdays its not uncommon to have a longer career than before. Modric isnt freak of nature, yet he is still class at 34. Players peak at 30, so if someone is still world class, why not? You dont have entire team of 30 yos, but few are no problem.

If we were a built team ala City, lacking one quality CB, not splashing 80m on Koulibaly just because of age would be the worst reasoning. He could go on another 4 years at top. Shown no slowing down.

Meanwhile if players have injuries or show some decline at 28 ala Kante or Hazard, thats another thing. Most players are fit however.

It also depends on position. Wingers, fullbacks are a risk. Midfielders, CBs and GKs arent 

Cesc was in big physical decline when we signed him, yet he still put a show. And he was in decline. There are many midfielders who cope just fine. 

Thiago from Bayern will likely play at top if he stays injury free for at least 3 years. If someone said he isnt worth buying because of the age, Id laugh.

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1 hour ago, communicate said:

Psg played marquinhos, paredes and Herrera in front of him. 

If we are known to protect our d line, sure no problem. But we ask our defender to defend large space, sometimes both of our fb push up high and we have jorgi and kova as dm. 

 

we still do not know who are going to be our DMF's, not that I expect Rice to come in this window

and Verratti was their normal CMF

assuming Havertz is a done deal before next weekend

I am down to only 4 wants

new GKer <<<<< HAS to happen this year

Rice (next year it looks like) <<< we need him atm far more at DMF than CB (as I think CB migration will take a couple years with him if we go that route)

Skriniar (he probably will be sold this year, but probably not happening for us, unless we get REALLY lucky on selling players) << the not happening means Upamecano (who I prefer over Skriniar anyway) next year (we have the X-Man coming in 2 or so years up the food chain so do not need BOTH Skriniar and Upemecano, even I am not THAT greedy, roflmaoooooooooooo

Camavinga  for Rice's double pivot partner (unless Ampadu explodes in the next 2 years, which would be sooooooooooo sweet) IF Rice is moved to CB, then we need another DMF as well, a real cruncher type, like Denis Zakaria (ideal) or maybe even Aurélien Tchouaméni (if he keeps progressing at Monaco) or perhaps Leander Dendoncker (who I have always rated going back to 2014/15 and REALLY was sold on when he overall bullied Manure for Anderlecht back in spring 2017 (fucking Rashford 107th minute extra time Old Trafford goal was the only reason Manure snuck through in the EL)

 

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25 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Im just saying its pointless to point out age for every single player, nevermind state he is soon 30, should avoid etc.

Also Silva is 36, when he was 30 he wouldnt be free transfer.

Football is going in the way where players play for longer thanks to better training and nutrition. Nowdays its not uncommon to have a longer career than before. Modric isnt freak of nature, yet he is still class at 34. Players peak at 30, so if someone is still world class, why not? You dont have entire team of 30 yos, but few are no problem.

If we were a built team ala City, lacking one quality CB, not splashing 80m on Koulibaly just because of age would be the worst reasoning. He could go on another 4 years at top. Shown no slowing down.

Meanwhile if players have injuries or show some decline at 28 ala Kante or Hazard, thats another thing. Most players are fit however.

It also depends on position. Wingers, fullbacks are a risk. Midfielders, CBs and GKs arent 

Cesc was in big physical decline when we signed him, yet he still put a show. And he was in decline. There are many midfielders who cope just fine. 

Thiago from Bayern will likely play at top if he stays injury free for at least 3 years. If someone said he isnt worth buying because of the age, Id laugh.

I never said Thiago Alcântara would be a bad buy now, his style/methods of game play and his position do not toss up warning signs.

I always judge players when it come to age on individual, very holistic bases

1. quality of play they maintain (Silva is a go)

2. cost (as a free, he is a go)

3 what is out future-forward prognosis for that particular position versus immediate needs (Silva is a perfect bridge player there)

 

as soon as we were linked I said do it, instantly (and I am sure shocked some people here when I did so, but I have more than laid out my rationale)

at the same time, Koulibaly fails my tests, as he is far too expensive for his age (the dead money rule), and is already showing signs of age-related deterioration of play (I watched him a LOT this past season) He can likely rebound for a couple years or so, 3 max, but not enough to justify £70m or so,.as after 2 more years, he is then in a season where he turns 32yo in January 2023. Unlike Silva, KK is far more reliant on his pace and physicality.

 

 age-related deterioration of play <<< of all my calls, this area I have been extremely accurate in for dozens and dozens of big name players, especially so for (and I was very contrarian in regards to most of the press) for Real Madrid and Barca key players, including Hazard (he may, may rebound, but those 11 years at Lille and us he was just POUNDED on due to his style of play and far too often being the main focal point)

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40 minutes ago, Vesper said:

we still do not know whp is going to be our DMF's, not that I expect Rice to come in this window

and Verratti was their normal CMF

assuming Havertz is a done deal before next weekend

I am down to only 4 wants

new GKer <<<<< HAS to happen this year

Rice (next year it looks like) <<< we need him atm far more at DMF than CB (as I think CB migration will take a couple years with him if we go that route)

Skriniar (he probably will be sold this year, but probably not happening for us, unless we get REALLY lucky on selling players) << the not happening means Upamecano (who I prefer over Skriniar anyway) next year (we have the X-Man coming in 2 or so years up the food chain so do not need BOTH Skriniar and Upemecano, even I am not THAT greedy, roflmaoooooooooooo

Camavinga  for Rice's double pivot partner (unless Ampadu explodes in the next 2 years, which would be sooooooooooo sweet) IF Rice is moved to CB, then we need another DMF as well, a real cruncher type, like Denis Zakaria (ideal) or maybe even Aurélien Tchouaméni (if he keeps progressing at Monaco) or perhaps Leander Dendoncker (who I have always rated going back to 2014/15 and REALLY was sold on when he overall bullied Manure for Anderlecht back in spring 2017 (fucking Rashford 107th minute extra time Old Trafford goal was the only reason Manure snuck through in the EL)

 

I don't think we will sign a dm this season so nothing really change. I have tons of question about this signing because of his age but it is free and his contract is 1+1.  He can probably offer some "mentoring" for our defender which is a big plus.

So all in all, low risk but I dont expect him to transform our defense. 

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10 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

tbh this dude is example how funny people look when they constantly say stuff like ohh Koulibaly or xyz is soon 30 etc...

If we signed Thiago when he was 29, he would deliver at least 5 seasons at the top level. Same with Ramos. 

Ballack and Maka were also "old" when we signed them.

 

To still be competing at 36 makes Thiago an exception not the norm, you point out Maka and Ballack but both were long finished by that age. Out of our entire old guard only Terry made it to mid 30s still at a level to play well for Chelsea week in week out.

Koulibaly could do down Thiago's/Terry's route but he could also go down Carvalho's (who declined so badly post 30 even Jason Scotland had the beating of him).

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To still be competing at 36 makes Thiago an exception not the norm, you point out Maka and Ballack but both were long finished by that age. Out of our entire old guard only Terry made it to mid 30s still at a level to play well for Chelsea week in week out.
Koulibaly could do down Thiago's/Terry's route but he could also go down Carvalho's (who declined so badly post 30 even Jason Scotland had the beating of him).


Both Carvalho and especially Ballack had big injuries, which shortened their career. JT rarely had any injuries when he was in his thirties.



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17 minutes ago, killer1257 said:


 

 


Both Carvalho and especially Ballack had big injuries, which shortened their career. JT rarely had any injuries when he was in his thirties.



Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk
 

 

Fair enough but Ivan didn't and he was done at the top level in his early 30's, Lampard despite maintaining good goalscoring stats declined as an all round player post double. You never know when a player is susceptible to drop post 30, if the worst happens with Thiago S he can be our Terry under Conte type dressing room personality and we can both say thanks and goodbye next May, sign Koulibaly for £90m only for him to do an Ivan/Alexis style drop would put us in an awful situation.

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7 hours ago, communicate said:

Nah, silva is 36,we have to see how he can cope with epl especially if we defend the same way as last season. 

Just the simple fact that the club signed TS makes me somehow calm and shows that FL acknowledged that defence is a big problem because to be honest I was a bit worried he'd might only sign Chilwell for the back line and ignore the other important area, the center of defence, where there is actually a very big problem because the way I see it Chelsea probably have THE worst centre backs out of all the big clubs, I have written on this board before but I think they are simply useless, especially Rudiger who I do not rate at all because he simply lacks the basics and the intelligence to play for a big club, I still can't get over that reckless tackle v Arsenal when there was no need for it and left the defence wide open it just shows how poor he is and what a low footballing IQ he has, he is an abysmal football player.

If it was me I would pair TS with Azpilicueta at CB. Rudiger, Zouma and Christensen are not good enough.

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On 8/29/2020 at 3:45 PM, petre.ispirescu said:

Just the simple fact that the club signed TS makes me somehow calm and shows that FL acknowledged that defence is a big problem because to be honest I was a bit worried he'd might only sign Chilwell for the back line and ignore the other important area, the center of defence, where there is actually a very big problem because the way I see it Chelsea probably have THE worst centre backs out of all the big clubs, I have written on this board before but I think they are simply useless, especially Rudiger who I do not rate at all because he simply lacks the basics and the intelligence to play for a big club, I still can't get over that reckless tackle v Arsenal when there was no need for it and left the defence wide open it just shows how poor he is and what a low footballing IQ he has, he is an abysmal football player.

If it was me I would pair TS with Azpilicueta at CB. Rudiger, Zouma and Christensen are not good enough.

Actually I don't believe we have the worst cb, they are fine,not great, fine. I have said countless of time, we don't need good cb, we need a great commanding cb. That is why silva is signed, we need leadership at the back. Not sure I like the signing because I have major doubt of silva ability to last in epl due to his age and the way we defend. But it is a very low risk signing so no problem. 

People don't give credit of how our defender need to deal at people running at them at will especially when kante is not playing. We have only one ball winner in the team albeit a wc one, but when he is not playing or not fit or not playing well, all hell break lose. 

Btw saying that we need leadership at the back is not a shot at azpi. I am 100% think azpi is our captain. Imo those people who said azpi should not be captain and can't organize defense need to get their head checked. FB can't organize defense. How in the hell azpi can instruct LB to do anything plus fb also need to go up and support the attack, good luck organizing your defense after making overlapping cross

 

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On 8/29/2020 at 8:52 AM, Vesper said:

we still do not know who are going to be our DMF's, not that I expect Rice to come in this window

and Verratti was their normal CMF

assuming Havertz is a done deal before next weekend

I am down to only 4 wants

new GKer <<<<< HAS to happen this year

Rice (next year it looks like) <<< we need him atm far more at DMF than CB (as I think CB migration will take a couple years with him if we go that route)

Skriniar (he probably will be sold this year, but probably not happening for us, unless we get REALLY lucky on selling players) << the not happening means Upamecano (who I prefer over Skriniar anyway) next year (we have the X-Man coming in 2 or so years up the food chain so do not need BOTH Skriniar and Upemecano, even I am not THAT greedy, roflmaoooooooooooo

Camavinga  for Rice's double pivot partner (unless Ampadu explodes in the next 2 years, which would be sooooooooooo sweet) IF Rice is moved to CB, then we need another DMF as well, a real cruncher type, like Denis Zakaria (ideal) or maybe even Aurélien Tchouaméni (if he keeps progressing at Monaco) or perhaps Leander Dendoncker (who I have always rated going back to 2014/15 and REALLY was sold on when he overall bullied Manure for Anderlecht back in spring 2017 (fucking Rashford 107th minute extra time Old Trafford goal was the only reason Manure snuck through in the EL)

 

i'm quite impressed for camavinga,,he's mixing between Kante (for tackling) and Pogba (for Driblling & Passing). hope next season our scout will fight for him,,don't let Madrid or Barca get this kid. this could be their best DMF for the next 10 years...

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On 28-8-2020 at 2:20 PM, petre.ispirescu said:

No disrespect to Azpilicueta he is a big influence at the club, but he is no captain material if you ask me, Thiago Silva should be given the armband the second he steps a foot at Cobham and he should definitely be the loudest on the pitch, genuine WC defender hopefully his presence will have a similar impact to Van Dijk's arrival at Liverpool. Granted they have better defenders, but still T. Silva's presence alone should be of massive importance.

 

Why is he not captain material according to you? I think for us as fans it's really hard to notice the mutual bond and respect between players. I think a captain should be someone who is respected by the manager and the entire squad really. Lampard, working day in day out with his team, probably has an idea what he wants and expects from a captain, and apparently that's Azpilicuate right now. Also, if you look at our captains in the history, all of them could handle themselves quite well, English wise. Different story for Thiago Silva, from what i've seen.

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4 hours ago, Vincent said:

Why is he not captain material according to you? I think for us as fans it's really hard to notice the mutual bond and respect between players. I think a captain should be someone who is respected by the manager and the entire squad really. Lampard, working day in day out with his team, probably has an idea what he wants and expects from a captain, and apparently that's Azpilicuate right now. Also, if you look at our captains in the history, all of them could handle themselves quite well, English wise. Different story for Thiago Silva, from what i've seen.

Because we got spoilt by our previous generation of players. Now, am not saying Azpi is like Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc. He isn't but because he supposedly isn't screaming or seen constantly organizing the defence, he becomes an easy stick to beat with when things go around, he gets blamed because of the defensive incompetency of others. He isn't quite as consistent and flawless as he was say 2-3 years ago but he's still by far our most reliable defender. He might even feel relieved that Silva has joined!

As for the stuff Azpi does off the pitch, yeah. The club captain has lots of responsibilities off the pitch as well and if you read the news/stories, you'll notice that he does represent the club extremely well and is also well respected by the players as well as being thought highly by by our managers over the years. Only a few weeks ago, Lampard praised him at length after the Champions League game (or maybe the FA Cup final).

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20 minutes ago, Jason said:

Because we got spoilt by our previous generation of players. Now, am not saying Azpi is like Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc. He isn't but because he supposedly isn't screaming or seen constantly organizing the defence, he becomes an easy stick to beat with when things go around, he gets blamed because of the defensive incompetency of others. He isn't quite as consistent and flawless as he was say 2-3 years ago but he's still by far our most reliable defender. He might even feel relieved that Silva has joined!

As for the stuff Azpi does off the pitch, yeah. The club captain has lots of responsibilities off the pitch as well and if you read the news/stories, you'll notice that he does represent the club extremely well and is also well respected by the players as well as being thought highly by by our managers over the years. Only a few weeks ago, Lampard praised him at length after the Champions League game (or maybe the FA Cup final).

People will just pick on Azpi in the same way they did regarding Cahill when he was captain, which is ironic because as soon as someone else criticised a player they liked it was the good old oh just get behind the player and the team. Its just a stupid argument to have.

I mean do you think City fans argued about similar things when David Silva was made captain or Liverpool fans when Jordan Henderson was made captain or United fans when Darren Fletcher was made vicecaptain (he moved not long after as he hadnt played a lot due to his illness but still) or whenever wny club made their captain or vice captain someone totally against the mould of a Terry, Vidic, Gerrard etc? Captains come in different shapes and forms. There is different types of leadership and ways of being a leader which makes me realise that people are so caught up in how captains ‘used to be’ (as if its changed hugely and that every captain was one of these guys mentioned above) that they are totally blinded by the fact that just because someone sits shouting on a football pitch it means they are captain material when it doesn’t mean they are necessarily captain material. They could be shouting a whole lot of shite, I mean weve all played some sort of sport where some fucking idiot will sit talking shite throughout a whole game and you are thinking wtf are you on about... I would imagine some of these professional footballers are more than likely the same and probably some of the coaches can also do this too.

But on regards to having leaders the addition of Thiago Silva is huge for that, all good teams or even looking at businesses have more than one or two ‘leaders’ so to speak, you need a good number of these guys. Its no surprise we were so successful with Cech, Terry, Lampard, Drogba, Cole, Ballack etc because ok while we only had one captain you had several senior leadership figures. 

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