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Jason

closed Bayern Munich 4-1 Chelsea

Started by Jason,

Man of the Match   11 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your Man of the Match?

    • Caballero
      1
    • James
      0
    • Christensen
      0
    • Zouma
      1
    • Emerson
      0
    • Kante
      0
    • Kovacic
      0
    • Barkley
      0
    • Mount
      0
    • Hudson-Odoi
      7
    • Abraham
      2
    • Giroud (sub)
      0

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489 posts in this topic

The discussion probably deserves it's own thread, but personally I don't think it's that easy to designate the "best team in the world" especially over a long period. For starters, not every candidate for that title plays in the same league so it's difficult to judge them fairly. Obviously there's the UCL but it's a single elimination format so it's impossible to have concluding results. And even if the candidates somehow came to play in a league of their own, there's always some unpredictable factors like the fitness of the players, injuries, refereeing etc..

In recent memory, the only team I could confidently call the "best team in the world" was Pep's Barça because they were so ridiculously good that the gap between them and their peers was too big. Everyone else was debatable IMO.

Everyone have their diferent criterias to designate a winner so it's really difficult to come up with an objective answer that will satisfy everyone.

bigbluewillie and Puliiszola like this

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10 minutes ago, Vesper said:

atm Bayern

if they win CL then they are easily, in an utter cakewalk the best

IF PSG win the CL, then them (as they will have won all 5 trophies they could have and will have an easy run it to equal Pep's linear Septuple)

if neither of those win the CL, it gets really murky, and I would say that IF they had won the FA Cup, you might have then made a case to Liverpool, and if they had won the CS and the league Cup, then for sure, but they failed 4 times,2 of them part of the big 3 ( CL, main Cup,(they won the league, which is the third pat of the ultimate treble) plus the not so important CS and then LC)

I think it is almost impossible to name the best team if both PSG and Bayern fail, Shitty, if they win will try and claim it, but they were mediocre in the league <<<< so put thsi all down to be determined

last season, (2018-19) Shitty or Liverpool, its flip a coin (if Shifty had made it to the SF or final in the CL and then lost, then them for sure for sure, as they won the domestic quad  and took every trophy from the dippers save for CL

(we never discussed year by year) as you went right to naming them the best in the last TWO years

the year before, Real, in a cakewalk

some years it is just hard to say who is actually the best team, other years it is easy

as long as Bayern or PSG win the CL (I picked them preseason as the two favourites) then it will be an easy year the main 3 teams who could fuck it all up are Atleti , Shitty, and Barca

Barca and Shitty (Shitty due to their buying their way out of just punishment) are the only two teams  left that would make me angry to see win the CL

I would love to see Atletico Madrid win it finally, always have loved Simeone and I love defensive football (that is pretty obvious when you look at my player wants and see who I bash the msot (it is lamsot always for shit defence, the only I have conssitently went off on players over offence is Azpi/Emerson as a left back, Jorginho when he slows the fuck out of the game (same for Willian) and then Bats. All the others one I am very patient with in terms of offensive cockups, save for Kante and Barkley at times (CHO has played so little it is hard to judge)

Fair enough on a lot of points.

Main thing is what weight does a person give to what criteria. For me, results throughout the season and specially in the league are far higher than trophies. Simply because trophies can be mis-leading. Taking psg and bayern as example. PSG already has a treble, but is that even worth mentioning? They are so far above any of their domestic rivals that its a given. Same with Bayern. Winning bundesliga and Pokal should be the base minimum given their class and the difference with even the 2nd best team - BVB. Hence CL becomes paramount to judge these teams. In which the recent history does favour Liverpool. 

The whole discussion and matter is so subjective. I mean none of these discussion will take into consideration that liverpool played an u23 team against villa because their first team was in another continent playing the club world cup within the next 24 hours. Priorities have to be made and more so in english football compared to any other league. And then there are the respective leagues.

Liverpool:

2019/20: P38 W32 D3 L3

2018/19: P38  W30 D7 L1

Oveall: P76, W62, D10, L4. Win% - 84.2%, PPG - 2.57

PSG:

2019/20: P27 W22 D2 L3

2018/19: P38  W29 D4 L5

Overall: P65 W51 D6 L8. Win% - 78.4%, PPG - 2.44

Bayern:

2019/20: P34 W26 D4 L4

2018/19: P34 W24 D6 L4

Overall: P68 W50 D10 L8. Win% - 73.5% PPG - 2.35

This is just an unbelievable stat and one of the main reasons for me to say they have been the best. Again very subjective and depends on person to person. But to have a better win % than PSG and Bayern in their respective leagues and that too in such a competitive league like PL, its just out of this world, imo. That Level of consistency - A1. 

Again, no wrong or right in this. But I can understand your opinion, or mine or someone else's. Different opinions and preferences define a person's choice.

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16 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Fair enough on a lot of points.

Main thing is what weight does a person give to what criteria. For me, results throughout the season and specially in the league are far higher than trophies. Simply because trophies can be mis-leading. Taking psg and bayern as example. PSG already has a treble, but is that even worth mentioning? They are so far above any of their domestic rivals that its a given. Same with Bayern. Winning bundesliga and Pokal should be the base minimum given their class and the difference with even the 2nd best team - BVB. Hence CL becomes paramount to judge these teams. In which the recent history does favour Liverpool. 

The whole discussion and matter is so subjective. I mean none of these discussion will take into consideration that liverpool played an u23 team against villa because their first team was in another continent playing the club world cup within the next 24 hours. Priorities have to be made and more so in english football compared to any other league. And then there are the respective leagues.

Liverpool:

2019/20: P38 W32 D3 L3

2018/19: P38  W30 D7 L1

Oveall: P76, W62, D10, L4. Win% - 84.2%, PPG - 2.57

PSG:

2019/20: P27 W22 D2 L3

2018/19: P38  W29 D4 L5

Overall: P65 W51 D6 L8. Win% - 78.4%, PPG - 2.44

Bayern:

2019/20: P34 W26 D4 L4

2018/19: P34 W24 D6 L4

Overall: P68 W50 D10 L8. Win% - 73.5% PPG - 2.35

This is just an unbelievable stat and one of the main reasons for me to say they have been the best. Again very subjective and depends on person to person. But to have a better win % than PSG and Bayern in their respective leagues and that too in such a competitive league like PL, its just out of this world, imo. That Level of consistency - A1. 

Again, no wrong or right in this. But I can understand your opinion, or mine or someone else's. Different opinions and preferences define a person's choice.

Bayern has one huge, built in advantage over the rest of the powerhouses (well 2 over the EPL as we still have that 2nd cup to drain off manpower resources as well, we now the only big 5 league leftw with two cups, as the Coupe de Ligue was shuttered by the French footballing association)

They only play 34 league games, so are fresher

the only downside is that the players league and overall stats are lower due to less games (only goals and assists matter in this regard)

The FA and EPL need to close down the League Cup after this coming season, as the FWCC is expanding in 2021 to 24 teams

the top EPL teams will be crushed with too many games. I think it will be possible, if you go deep into all possible cups, to play 70 or more games in one season. That is madness

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23 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Bayern has one huge, built in advantage over the rest of the powerhouses (well 2 over the EPL as we still have that 2nd cup to drain off manpower resources as well, we now the only big 5 league leftw with two cups, as the Coupe de Ligue was shuttered by the French footballing association)

They only play 34 league games, so are fresher

the only downside is that the players league and overall stats are lower due to less games (only goals and assists matter in this regard)

The FA and EPL need to close down the League Cup after this coming season, as the FWCC is expanding in 2021 to 24 teams

the top EPL teams will be crushed with too many games. I think it will be possible, if you go deep into all possible cups, to play 70 or more games in one season. That is madness

Exactly. But it will impact the teams from championship and below. Had read an article which said that it was a decent source of income for them. 

But FA needs to do something. Totally agree.

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On 10/08/2020 at 7:10 AM, Vesper said:

Bayern has one huge, built in advantage over the rest of the powerhouses (well 2 over the EPL as we still have that 2nd cup to drain off manpower resources as well, we now the only big 5 league leftw with two cups, as the Coupe de Ligue was shuttered by the French footballing association)

They only play 34 league games, so are fresher

the only downside is that the players league and overall stats are lower due to less games (only goals and assists matter in this regard)

The FA and EPL need to close down the League Cup after this coming season, as the FWCC is expanding in 2021 to 24 teams

the top EPL teams will be crushed with too many games. I think it will be possible, if you go deep into all possible cups, to play 70 or more games in one season. That is madness

We did it in 12/13 and survived. That season we played every possible round, of every tournament barring the League Cup Final and The Cup Final. The top clubs need the League cup because they need squad harmony. They have the power, their participation cannot be compelled. They control the Premier League and the rest of English football would gladly cut off both arms rather than give up the Premier League handouts. If the Premier League said our clubs are not playing in the League Cup anymore, the football League would try to find a way to keep them in but, ultimately, their response would be 'yes sir'.

If top clubs want out they'd be out. The fact that they are still in is evidence that they've settled for the status quo. They've found an accommodation with it for now but as soon as they want out, they'll be out. I don't think we need to worry about it.

P.S. I never thanked you for the recommending Blueprint For Armageddon and The Guns of August. Both excellent. I enjoyed them a lot and learned lot. That from someone who thought he knew a fair amount on this already. If I had to choose I'd go for the Dan Carlin because he set out to tell a story so his narrative flows but the quality and depth of Tuchman's work is evidenced by the number of times Carlin quotes her.

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1 hour ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

We did it in 12/13 and survived. That season we played every possible round, of every tournament barring the League Cup Final and The Cup Final. The top clubs need the League cup because they need squad harmony. They have the power, their participation cannot be compelled. They control the Premier League and the rest of English football would gladly cut off both arms rather than give up the Premier League handouts. If the Premier League said our clubs are not playing in the League Cup anymore, the football League would try to find a way to keep them in but, ultimately, their response would be 'yes sir'.

If top clubs want out they'd be out. The fact that they are still in is evidence that they've settled for the status quo. They've found an accommodation with it for now but as soon as they want out, they'll be out. I don't think we need to worry about it.

P.S. I never thanked you for the recommending Blueprint For Armageddon and The Guns of August. Both excellent. I enjoyed them a lot and learned lot. That from someone who thought he knew a fair amount on this already. If I had to choose I'd go for the Dan Carlin because he set out to tell a story so his narrative flows but the quality and depth of Tuchman's work is evidenced by the number of times Carlin quotes her.

Awww, yw, I am glad you found them rewarding!!

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Cheer up lads, Bayern lead Barca by 4-1, So we aren't the only "trash side" to be beaten. :ph34r::D And that's at HT only.

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