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Jason

Team of the Decade

Started by Jason,

33 posts in this topic
18 minutes ago, Jason said:

It's just a team on paper, no need to read too much into the actual position. And I think you're bothering too much with Azpi's recent showings at LB. His best work, his most consistent years - especially defensively - came when he was playing at LB from 2013 to 2016, before being moved to CB in Conte's system. He rarely played at RB (before Sarri & Lampard). It's similar to Ivanovic as well on the other side. He could play as a CB but his best work came at RB and I seem to remember he was less reliable at CB than he was at RB. As for Cole, his impact after 2009/10 was minimal at best. Sure, there was the Champions League win and all but he certainly was no longer a strong force then than the years before, and of course, he got replaced by Azpi.

everyone is obviously entitled to their own opinions but I am not moved in the slightest from mine

I also am not shorting out Azpi, just putting him in his correct slot

I remember the struggles Azpi had as a wrong footed fullback back pre Conte on the offensive end, that simply cannot be overlooked

and I remember many superb games from Ivanovic at CB

we also could make a back 3 team with same players plus Cahill added at CB with Azpi and Terry, Branislav at RWB (or fli Azpi there) and Cole at LWB as Cole maintained his offensive prowess long than his defensive, as he aged out

and to say that  

Quote

his impact after 2009/10 was minimal at best

is just silly IMHO

he was our internal  Player's Player of the Year after that

a5562fbff606c6fc24f4fe0bfe167bdc.png

and also....

PFA Team of the Year (2010/11 Premier League)

https://www.fifa.com/photos/galleries/pfa-team-the-year-2010-premier-league-1439472#ashley-cole-chelsea-1390226

Ashley Cole of Chelsea

Ashley Cole of Chelsea

 

for the calendar year 2010 he was on the UEFA first team as well (the 2nd time he made it)

 

1264209dea6b1481e7763d227c5d600e.png

He was also the winner of the FA England player of the year for calendar year 2010 and 3rd place in 2012

450a4665ed62a86c78b505f32e3dec0a.png

and as late as calendar year 2013 (announced in 2014) made FIFA FIFPro Men's World XI 4th team

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/fifpro-announces-reserve-teams-of-the-year-but-luis-suarez-and-arjen-robben-wont-be-laughing-while-9062047.html#gallery

38d634928d354991cca02d5b3c8e2bdc.png

ae348b41aec9e087723319ac044f1c1f.png

f1de6a6ec1bd9c7f2b9a6dcf6a916627.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Vesper said:

is just silly IMHO

he was our internal  Player's Player of the Year after that

a5562fbff606c6fc24f4fe0bfe167bdc.png

and also....

PFA Team of the Year (2010/11 Premier League)

https://www.fifa.com/photos/galleries/pfa-team-the-year-2010-premier-league-1439472#ashley-cole-chelsea-1390226

Ashley Cole of Chelsea

Ashley Cole of Chelsea

 

for the calendar year 2010 he was on the UEFA first team as well (the 2nd time he made it)

 

1264209dea6b1481e7763d227c5d600e.png

He was also the winner of the FA England player of the year for calendar year 2010 and 3rd place in 2012

450a4665ed62a86c78b505f32e3dec0a.png

and as late as calendar year 2013 (announced in 2014) made FIFA FIFPro Men's World XI 4th team

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/fifpro-announces-reserve-teams-of-the-year-but-luis-suarez-and-arjen-robben-wont-be-laughing-while-9062047.html#gallery

38d634928d354991cca02d5b3c8e2bdc.png

ae348b41aec9e087723319ac044f1c1f.png

f1de6a6ec1bd9c7f2b9a6dcf6a916627.jpg

You know these individual, Team of the Year awards don't mean much, right? It's just like how the UEFA Team of the Year - or whatever it's called these days - always has the likes of Sergio Ramos, Marcelo etc in it even when they were not the best defenders that year. IIRC, there was the silly inclusion of Pogba in last season's Premier League Team of the Season and another example more closer to home, Hazard winning the 2018/19 Europa League Player of the Year award, even though Giroud was more deserving of it. 

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13 minutes ago, Jason said:

You know these individual, Team of the Year awards don't mean much, right? It's just like how the UEFA Team of the Year - or whatever it's called these days - always has the likes of Sergio Ramos, Marcelo etc in it even when they were not the best defenders that year. IIRC, there was the silly inclusion of Pogba in last season's Premier League Team of the Season and another example more closer to home, Hazard winning the 2018/19 Europa League Player of the Year award, even though Giroud was more deserving of it. 

I feel justified in what I said

other posters can agree or not

it is all just opinion anyway

I simply refuse to accept Azpi at LB for our team of the decade

Iggy Doonican likes this

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

It's just a team on paper,

And yet you thought it was worthy of a thread and then berate other posters choices. Someone picks a team why do feel the need to pick the bones through it and how do you know that when a player gets individual recognition it means nothing to them ?

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11 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

And yet you thought it was worthy of a thread and then berate other posters choices.

:lol: I knew that was going to come. Read the full sentence for context...

13 hours ago, Jason said:

It's just a team on paper, no need to read too much into the actual position.

 

11 hours ago, Iggy Doonican said:

Someone picks a team why do feel the need to pick the bones through it and how do you know that when a player gets individual recognition it means nothing to them ?

Berate other posters choices? Pick the bones through it? Maybe I phrased the initial reply in a slightly non-polite manner but can't people debate about the choices? Aren't we in a forum?

And the point wasn't about the individual feeling the recognition but more so about the validity of these Team of the Year, Player of the Year. I'll give you that the club's individual awards, especially when voted by the players, are fine but those other kinds are usually just popularity contest. 

manpe likes this

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3 hours ago, whats happening said:

jesus christ.

Don't think he'd make the final 11 not a fan of crosses :)

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11 hours ago, Jason said:

It's just a team on paper, no need to read too much into the actual position. And I think you're bothering too much with Azpi's recent showings at LB. His best work, his most consistent years - especially defensively - came when he was playing at LB from 2013 to 2016, before being moved to CB in Conte's system. He rarely played at RB (before Sarri & Lampard). It's similar to Ivanovic as well on the other side. He could play as a CB but his best work came at RB and I seem to remember he was less reliable at CB than he was at RB. As for Cole, his impact after 2009/10 was minimal at best. Sure, there was the Champions League win and all but he certainly was no longer a strong force then than the years before, and of course, he got replaced by Azpi.

I'm opening myself up here but I feel Cole on had two very top season's with us and Azpi is far above him if we're judging on season by season consistency .

First season he was pretty wack (all be it recovering from an injury that kept him out most of his last season at Arsenal) and the second under Avram solid but unspectacular. It was under Scolari we saw him recover form and become the version we saw at Arsenal and then we got absolute prime Ash for two season's. Then after that he was still solid enough defensively (until about 2013 when he declined in that aspect also) but became non existent as an attacking threat which hindered us big time down that side.

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16 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I'm opening myself up here but I feel Cole on had two very top season's with us and Azpi is far above him if we're judging on season by season consistency .

First season he was pretty wack (all be it recovering from an injury that kept him out most of his last season at Arsenal) and the second under Avram solid but unspectacular. It was under Scolari we saw him recover form and become the version we saw at Arsenal and then we got absolute prime Ash for two season's. Then after that he was still solid enough defensively (until about 2013 when he declined in that aspect also) but became non existent as an attacking threat which hindered us big time down that side.

I think a lot comes down to your personal preference. I agree that Azpi has been the more consistent player for a longer period of time in the decade but the couple of stellar seasons that Cole had, for me, were at a much higher level than any seasons that Azpi has produced. To be honest even defensively Cole in his prime I don't think there was anyone better. Those two legs against Barca (especially the second leg where he played centre back) and the final were incredible performances that probably didn't get the same recognition as the likes of Cech and Drogba did.

So do you go for longer term consistent play, or shorter term high level play.

I think a similar argument could be put between Willian and Mata. Willian has been here much longer but been a little up and down in performances and form, compared to Mata who only had two seasons here but won player of the year in both years (deservedly so too).

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This isn't an argument of whose better. This is an argument of who performed better this decade. 

Cole's prime for us was arguably 07-11. That is one year of consistent form this decade. Azpilicueta played everywhere along the back line, and was solid throughout until the end of 2017. That is roughly 5 years of consistent performances. 

This isn't about a balanced XI. This is about fielding the best performers of this decade. 

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1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

This isn't an argument of whose better. This is an argument of who performed better this decade. 

Cole's prime for us was arguably 07-11. That is one year of consistent form this decade. Azpilicueta played everywhere along the back line, and was solid throughout until the end of 2017. That is roughly 5 years of consistent performances. 

This isn't about a balanced XI. This is about fielding the best performers of this decade. 

Or maybe let people interpret their team of the decade how they want :) It's all just fantasy fun anyway. I find valid arguments for both sides (Ash or Dave) and there really is no true or false, no need to get all mormon and preach one truth. :) 

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This may be questioned by many but here we go fuck it. From 2009 onwards. Matic and Cesc were tough to leave out but for me Ramires (was a huge favourite of mines) and Lampard deserved places. Suppose a bench would have Courtois, Cole, Matic, Cesc, Willian and Mata maybe 😂

Cech

Ivan - Cahill - Terry - Azpi

Ramires - Kante - Lampard

Hazard

Costa - Drogba 

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On 1/5/2020 at 2:17 PM, Jason said:

You know these individual, Team of the Year awards don't mean much, right? It's just like how the UEFA Team of the Year - or whatever it's called these days - always has the likes of Sergio Ramos, Marcelo etc in it even when they were not the best defenders that year. IIRC, there was the silly inclusion of Pogba in last season's Premier League Team of the Season and another example more closer to home, Hazard winning the 2018/19 Europa League Player of the Year award, even though Giroud was more deserving of it. 

Totally agree. Trying to justify your opinion using the "team of the year" argument is just lol.

We can crib all we want, azpi is our best left back of the decade. Sad, but true.

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