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Tomo

Chelsea's Transfer Targets

Started by Tomo,

3,812 posts in this topic
5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I just read Sancho thread on Blue Moon forum and didn't see one comment as convinced as you are about Sancho going back to City. 

No one is expecting that they will even use first refusal clause. 

After all, Sancho is Chelsea fan just like you and me. What would you do in his position? Plus his best mates are already here. He's from London... 

I have to add, I am not 100% convinced that Shitty would do it, but I am wary of the option

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From Blue Moon forum... 

Not exactly ITK but a friend of mine is best mates with one of the lads in youth recruitment at City, he was involved in bringing Sancho up from Watford etc. He is in contact with Sancho quite a lot and basically the word is that he doesn't want to come back to Manchester. He is targeting a move to Chelsea but he has been hearing they will go for Zaha in January which would stop that move as they already have Hudson-Odoi. Plenty could change of course but just a little snippet of info.

I still think Zaha is smoke screen. No way we go for him over Sancho... 

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47 minutes ago, Vesper said:

wrong

see my other posts on the subject

unless it is written into the contract (which makes ZERO sense for Shitty or any team to do so at it defeats the entire purpose of both a buy back and a right of first refusal clause) a player cannot void the deal. He signed the contract, he must legally abide by it. And if Sane is sold to Bayern, Sancho would have little reason to NOT want to go back to them anyway, as it would be Pep and the club not only admitting they made a huge mistake, but paying dearly to sort that mistake)

I've never before seen or heard of an interpretation of this clause as that.

Otherwise every club would sell their players in that way.

So Burnley sell a player with first refusal and 2-3 years later this player develops into a top drawer player and Barcelona or Real Madrid want him but he is 'forced' to rejoin Burnley because they've matched an offer from those two?! I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to force a player to move back once you've signed over their registration. That level of control would not be allowed.

Similar to a buy-back clause. If we triggered Ake's that doesn't mean he has to move back if he wants to remain at Bournemouth. You'd never want to bring a player in anyway that doesn't want to join your club, especially for £120m.

Now a decision between us and City is completely separate. City are obviously hugely attractive but it's hardly like we are some little club fighting a European heavyweight. There would be lots of reasons why Sancho would possibly choose us over City.

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1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

From Blue Moon forum... 

Not exactly ITK but a friend of mine is best mates with one of the lads in youth recruitment at City, he was involved in bringing Sancho up from Watford etc. He is in contact with Sancho quite a lot and basically the word is that he doesn't want to come back to Manchester. He is targeting a move to Chelsea but he has been hearing they will go for Zaha in January which would stop that move as they already have Hudson-Odoi. Plenty could change of course but just a little snippet of info.

I still think Zaha is smoke screen. No way we go for him over Sancho... 

 

lets hope this is indeed the case

I have gotten my hopes up a dozen times in last 6 years or so only to end up disappointed

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2 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I've never before seen or heard of an interpretation of this clause as that.

Otherwise every club would sell their players in that way.

So Burnley sell a player with first refusal and 2-3 years later this player develops into a top drawer player and Barcelona or Real Madrid want him but he is 'forced' to rejoin Burnley because they've matched an offer from those two?! I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to force a player to move back once you've signed over their registration. That level of control would not be allowed.

Similar to a buy-back clause. If we triggered Ake's that doesn't mean he has to move back if he wants to remain at Bournemouth. You'd never want to bring a player in anyway that doesn't want to join your club, especially for £120m.

Now a decision between us and City is completely separate. City are obviously hugely attractive but it's hardly like we are some little club fighting a European heavyweight. There would be lots of reasons why Sancho would possibly choose us over City.

a buyback clause absolutely locks a player in, they have to go back 

a first refusal (depending on the wording, which is not so clear in this case) is more nebulous so let's hope that Sancho has no desire to go back to Shitty

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'm a big fan of Sancho but I actually think £120m is a ridiculous amount to be having to pay.

Having said that, if the alternative is Zaha and he's £80m then Sancho should be prioritised.

I agree, it is a huge amount to toss the dice on

for that matter, so is £80m for Zaha

I have no idea what is going on with Ziyech, Isco, Nicolò Zaniolo (who is my favourite out of these), etc etc

 

the only 2 players I 100% am sold on are Chilwell and Werner (Werner due to low price, IF he was £100-120m plus as well, then right back to same spot as I am with Sancho)

also (again due to price) a great deal is Thomas Partey for DMF (only £42m RC)

but I have seen zero links and as I have said before, I think the club really wants Declan Rice

Ake for £40m is also in the almost no-brainer because of his ball-playing skills and he also can cover at LB (not sure how good he actually is there at all, I would need to watch some footage)

I think I soon just retreat from all this speculation and toss my faith with the club and Lamps to do the right thing (hopefully they are done with the 2014-18 nightmare decisions)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I agree, it is a huge amount to toss the dice on

for that matter, so is £80m for Zaha

I have no idea what is going on with Ziyech, Isco, Nicolò Zaniolo (who is my favourite out of these), etc etc

 

the only 2 players I 100% am sold on are Chilwell and Werner (Werner due to low price, IF he was £100-120m plus as well, then right back to same spot as I am with Sancho)

also (again due to price) a great deal is Thomas Partey for DMF (only £42m RC)

but I have seen zero links and as I have said before, I think the club really wants Declan Rice

Ake for £40m is also in the almost no-brainer because of his ball-playing skills and he also can cover at LB (not sure how good he actually is there at all, I would need to watch some footage)

I think I soon just retreat from all this speculation and toss my faith with the club and Lamps to do the right thing (hopefully they are done with the 2014-18 nightmare decisions)

 

 

I know the whole landscape of football has changed since the Neymar move and the market is essentially completely broken, but I still feel for that price you should be buying someone who is maybe 23-24 years old with the perfect blend of experience and youth on their side and likely just going into their peak years. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Sancho and would love him here. I just feel he has more to prove to be considered that level.

Having said that, I would have said the same about Mbappe when he left Monaco for such a crazy sum of money and look at how that has turned out. Sometimes I guess you have to take that gamble on some players because if they do reach the potential expected of them they could become amongst the world's very best.

On Ake, I agree. I also believe he would be perfectly suited to playing in a back 3 too. Like some have pointed out I don't expect the back 3 to be an ever-present formation for us, but it should be noted that our two best performances in the league this season (Wolves and Spurs) have come with that formation. Having another player suited and versatile to play both a back 3 and 4 can only help us long term.

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8 minutes ago, Fernando said:

120 is worth it. 

Look at how much Barcelona paid for coutinho and dembele. 

Sancho is in that bracket. 

I'd like to think he's above that bracket because both failed to justify their price tags.

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Leeds fans stunned by Ben White performance on Twitter

The Leeds United loanee finally had a poor game under Marcelo Bielsa.

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/12/21/leeds-fans-stunned-by-ben-white-performance-on-twitter/

Leeds United fans on Twitter can't believe how poor Ben White was this afternoon.

White has been a revelation since joining Leeds on loan from Brighton & Hove Albion.

He is a huge reason as to why Marcelo Bielsa's side had conceded only 13 goals in 22 Championship outings before today.

But the visit to Fulham this afternoon was one to forget for the 22-year-old.

The Leeds centre-back conceded a silly penalty inside eight minutes by putting his hands on Aleksandar Mitrovic, who needed no invitation to go to ground before smashing home the penalty.

Mitrovic was a pest for White all evening long and another of his errors almost led to the Elland Road side going 2-1 down in the second half.

On the whole, it wasn't what Leeds fans have come to expect from the young stalwart, and here's how some supporters reacted to his display.

snip

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4 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

From Blue Moon forum... 

Not exactly ITK but a friend of mine is best mates with one of the lads in youth recruitment at City, he was involved in bringing Sancho up from Watford etc. He is in contact with Sancho quite a lot and basically the word is that he doesn't want to come back to Manchester. He is targeting a move to Chelsea but he has been hearing they will go for Zaha in January which would stop that move as they already have Hudson-Odoi. Plenty could change of course but just a little snippet of info.

I still think Zaha is smoke screen. No way we go for him over Sancho... 

You kinda asked it yourself in the CHO thread - what would happen to CHO if we have Sancho & Pulisic? If the long term plan is to have CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then it kinda makes sense to go after Zaha instead of Sancho. But of course, if we're talking about value between Zaha and Sancho, then it makes more sense to get the latter instead.

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16 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I'd like to think he's above that bracket because both failed to justify their price tags.

I haven't seen Coutinho in Germany. Is he doing as well as reports suggest? I ask because Dembele looked fully worth the fee Barcelona paid while he was a Bundesliga player. I wonder if that factor is significant when considering Sancho's true value.

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3 hours ago, Jason said:

You kinda asked it yourself in the CHO thread - what would happen to CHO if we have Sancho & Pulisic? If the long term plan is to have CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then it kinda makes sense to go after Zaha instead of Sancho. But of course, if we're talking about value between Zaha and Sancho, then it makes more sense to get the latter instead.

Pulisic is not really a world-beater, and never will be. If CHO can't be better than Pulisic, than it's all on him I think. We are playing in a lot of games so a believe all of them would get enough chances.

Problem is that we really need more goals from somewhere. And it would be shame to replace Tammy, he is good enough. Other 2 in that attacking trio must be questioned in that regard.

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51 minutes ago, El P. said:

Pulisic is not really a world-beater, and never will be. If CHO can't be better than Pulisic, than it's all on him I think. We are playing in a lot of games so a believe all of them would get enough chances.

Problem is that we really need more goals from somewhere. And it would be shame to replace Tammy, he is good enough. Other 2 in that attacking trio must be questioned in that regard.

Define world beater. Pulisic might not be a flashy player like the Mbappes, Sanchos of this world but that doesn't mean he can't become good/great in his own right. You can't fill the squad with too many similar/same players, can you? Pulisic has his own unique skill set. He's direct, always looking to drive towards goal ASAP. He's always on the move and never stationary, offering himself as a passing option or dragging people out of position to create space for others or getting on the end of chances to score. 

You're right about the goals issue but I see Pulisic as someone who can contribute at least 10-15 goals per season. The finishing is not quite consistent at the moment but he's already shown he's capable of creating chances on his own and getting at the end of chances. Lampard has spoken about this a few times and as things stand, Pulisic is our second joint-top scorer in the team - 5 goals with Mount. The bigger issue, IMO, is the RW and midfield. Any goals from Willian is a bonus and a midfield trio of Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic don't contribute goals consistently enough.

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14 minutes ago, Jason said:

Define world beater. Pulisic might not be a flashy player like the Mbappes, Sanchos of this world but that doesn't mean he can't become good/great in his own right. You can't fill the squad with too many similar/same players, can you? Pulisic has his own unique skill set. He's direct, always looking to drive towards goal ASAP. He's always on the move and never stationary, offering himself as a passing option or dragging people out of position to create space for others or getting on the end of chances to score. 

You're right about the goals issue but I see Pulisic as someone who can contribute at least 10-15 goals per season. The finishing is not quite consistent at the moment but he's already shown he's capable of creating chances on his own and getting at the end of chances. Lampard has spoken about this a few times and as things stand, Pulisic is our second joint-top scorer in the team - 5 goals with Mount. The bigger issue, IMO, is the RW and midfield. Any goals from Willian is a bonus and a midfield trio of Jorginho/Kante/Kovacic don't contribute goals consistently enough.

Yes, well, this is not easy problem to solve. Our top 4 chances are not so bold anymore. We can choose - either keep current situation (which may be healthier regarding the quantity and competition) and risk not finishing top 4, or buy Sancho which improves our chances for top 4, but puts Pulisic and CHO at the risk of being left out.

Also, you say 10-15. I think 10 is much different than 15. 10 is not enough.

Regarding our midfield - it would be a shame to leave one of Kova-Jorgi-Kante out. I think we would be much stronger to keep those three in first XI and add more fire-power at the wings.

Question is basically, would you rather risk losing Pulisic/CHO, or Jorginho? I don't want to lose our vice-captain and one of few proper characters in squad.

Sancho is really young, English (I guess that means homegrown right) player which is already really good and can be world-class, also, seems interested to come here. We won't have chance like that soon, usually Barca/Real/City/PSG, even Juve and Bayern grab players like those in front of us. We should not miss this chance.

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9 minutes ago, El P. said:

Yes, well, this is not easy problem to solve. Our top 4 chances are not so bold anymore. We can choose - either keep current situation (which may be healthier regarding the quantity and competition) and risk not finishing top 4, or buy Sancho which improves our chances for top 4, but puts Pulisic and CHO at the risk of being left out.

Also, you say 10-15. I think 10 is much different than 15. 10 is not enough.

I did say "at least". It's just a benchmark, minimum requirement. For a wide player, I'd expect him to score at least 10 goals per season and that's without mentioning the assists. If Pulisic can, say, score 15 goals and provide 8 assists per season, then that would be a decent return (he's on 6 and 6 at the moment). That kind of numbers return is similar to what Hazard put out for us per season.

Getting Sancho wouldn't interfere with Pulisic/CHO, unless he gets moved to the LW as well. He'll definitely take up Willian's spot as it stands. 

17 minutes ago, El P. said:

Regarding our midfield - it would be a shame to leave one of Kova-Jorgi-Kante out. I think we would be much stronger to keep those three in first XI and add more fire-power at the wings.

Question is basically, would you rather risk losing Pulisic/CHO, or Jorginho? I don't want to lose our vice-captain and one of few proper characters in squad.

What it does, I guess, is gives us options to choose depending on the game, opposition etc. Many had expected Lampard to go with Jorginho-Kovacic-Kante at Spurs yesterday, for example, but he threw a curveball and went with just Kovacic-Kante. And let's not forget, we still have Loftus-Cheek to come back and potentially Gallagher in the future. 

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I see that Arsenal have been linked with Mertens for around £8-10m.

I know he's not getting any younger but he may be a decent short term punt for ourselves. Adaptable to play across the front line, but also as the central striker when Tammy is unavailable or needs a rest. He'd be an instant upgrade on Batshuayi.

Just seems quite a low risk investment compared to the figures being bandied around for the likes of Zaha. 

It would give us a boost with a quality player being added in January, but also leave us in a good position to pursue top targets in the summer who may not be attainable in January.

Even if someone like Sancho was added in the summer, Mertens could still play a role next season too as an attacking option due to his versatility.

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7 hours ago, Jason said:

You kinda asked it yourself in the CHO thread - what would happen to CHO if we have Sancho & Pulisic? If the long term plan is to have CHO and Pulisic on the wings, then it kinda makes sense to go after Zaha instead of Sancho. But of course, if we're talking about value between Zaha and Sancho, then it makes more sense to get the latter instead.

But even if all three become what we want from them why can't we have all of that? The word is that if Pulisic and CHO are top level in the future we don't need Sancho? How can City have Sterling, Sane, B. Silva and Mahrez? Or Real Hazard, Asensio, Bale plus two wonderkids in Vinicius and Rodrygo?? If you think like this basically we can sign both Zaha and Sancho. 

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3 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But even if all three become what we want from them why can't we have all of that? The word is that if Pulisic and CHO are top level in the future we don't need Sancho? How can City have Sterling, Sane, B. Silva and Mahrez? Or Real Hazard, Asensio, Bale plus two wonderkids in Vinicius and Rodrygo?? If you think like this basically we can sign both Zaha and Sancho. 

Maybe I'm just being pragmatic but my concern is, how are we gonna effectively manage game time between 3 young players? If you spend 120 million on a player, you would think he'll be first choice immediately and not be rotated with other players.

At City, it's clear that Mahrez is the 4th choice. He's been getting game because Sane is out injured and Silva has gone off the boil. 

At Real Madrid, Vinicius and Rodrygo have more experienced players also playing in their position. So if Bale and Hazard play ahead of them, it's not much of a surprise. They are still young and can bide their time, which is different from the situation we might find ourselves in. And besides, Asensio is out injured.

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