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Jason

closed Man Utd 4-0 Chelsea

Started by Jason,

Man of the Match   23 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is your Man of the Match?

    • Kepa
      0
    • Azpilicueta
      0
    • Christensen
      0
    • Zouma
      0
    • Emerson
      1
    • Jorginho
      2
    • Kovacic
      8
    • Barkley
      2
    • Mount
      6
    • Pedro
      1
    • Abraham
      1
    • Pulisic (sub)
      0
    • Giroud (sub)
      0
    • Kante (sub)
      2

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

681 posts in this topic
4 minutes ago, Laylabelle said:

Maybe they naively thought we've got away with it once we would again. Still annoys we're in this sodding mess. 

The board don't seem to act the way they should. Just piss around with deals until they fall through 

I do not see how they possibly could have thought we would skate

I read the documents (the public ones)

we flat out broke the rules, brazenly

we were so lucky to not be considered repeat offenders

if I had done similar malfeasance in my financial world, I would be prison-bound, not just sacked and banned from trading for a year

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6 minutes ago, Jason said:

@Atomiswave @Vesper How many times are we going to see you two moan about the poor transfers made, board's bad decisions, transfer ban etc? Like Lampard alluded to, it is what it is. Can only work with what we have and no point focusing on what can't be changed.

I am not taking it out on the players or Lamps (other than Zouma, as I expect Azpi to rebound)

so there is that:)

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9 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I do not see how they possibly could have thought we would skate

I read the documents (the public ones)

we flat out broke the rules, brazenly

we were so lucky to not be considered repeat offenders

if I had done similar malfeasance in my financial world, I would be prison-bound, not just sacked and banned from trading for a year

Someone thought they'd get away with though or wouldn't have made the same mistakes in the first place. That's what a annoying we had warnings from the Kakuta deal. Almost banned.. Not... Now we have. 

Hey Ho what's done is done. Hopefully can learn from everything that went wrong today and move on. 

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This is classic Mourinho...

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11782848/jose-mourinho-hails-rock-harry-maguire-after-man-united-win

Quote

Yet while Mourinho was full of praise for United, he described Chelsea's display as "too soft" after Frank Lampard suffered a heavy defeat on his Premier League managerial bow.

"They were not compact defensively and there wasn't enough aggression on the ball. The defensive line was never compact," said Mourinho.

Mourinho continued: "My feeling is that today they had the possibility to play with more know-how.

"Alonso, Kante and Giroud were on the bench. To come to Old Trafford, even if it's not the huge Manchester United team that used to scare people, it's still Manchester United, it's the first match at home, first match of the season, people are excited. A little bit of experience would fit well with the team.

"You look at the performance of Mount, Abraham and Christensen and I think for matches of this dimension you need a little bit more."

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I love Mourinho, but he can fuck off with what he's said there.

Thank fuck Alonso wasn't playing! Emerson was arguably our best player.

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43 minutes ago, Vesper said:

it is all on the board

I have been banging that drum since I joined, and have laid it out in painstaking detail

if little me knew the bans were coming (as evidenced by a shedload of my posts well before they officially got handed down)

surely they must have known

yet refused to act

especially in January

simply buying Ake (he is not my preferred CB for our lead but it was simple to do with our buyback clause AND is huge upgrade over Zouma, whose sale to Everton would have basically covered the ENTIRE cost) and Piatek (fuck Higs) and then lock down a deal with Lille for buy and loanback for Pepe for the last 6 months,which they (Lille) would have done for £45m to £55m at that time) AND he was practically begging to come here, look at the interviews, 

That would have SO helped us out this season

all that would have only cost us around a net £60-70m or so (and actually less as we could have then sold Bats for £30m or so, so call it £30-40m or so)

ffs

it isnt rocket fucking science here

so pissed off at the utter lack of future-forward football thinking

Spot on man.....we are not run properly. Look at the state of the team.

34 minutes ago, Jason said:

@Atomiswave @Vesper How many times are we going to see you two moan about the poor transfers made, board's bad decisions, transfer ban etc? Like Lampard alluded to, it is what it is. Can only work with what we have and no point focusing on what can't be changed.

You cant just say it is what it is when we seemingly never learn. We are incredibly inept and the overall setup does us no favours. When we fans can smell shit from afar then so should they. Its one of the reasons we are so flawed atm. There is no insight or forsight, no longterm vision......its bound do bite your ass this way at this level. The moment we are run like a business only then we are having it up the arse just like Arsenal.

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5 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

You cant just say it is what it is when we seemingly never learn. We are incredibly inept and the overall setup does us no favours. When we fans can smell shit from afar then so should they. Its one of the reasons we are so flawed atm. There is no insight or forsight, no longterm vision......its bound do bite your ass this way at this level. The moment we are run like a business only then we are having it up the arse just like Arsenal.

I don't think you'll find a Chelsea fan who will disagree with you on that but not sure what the constant complaining is gonna achieve...

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We've got like 16 trophies in the last 16 years. To say we are being run so poorly is somewhat laughable and makes it sound like we're all playing football manager.

Yeah we could do with strengthening particularly in defence and at striker but saying we're inept is a bit of a stretch.

And as already said. What we got is what we got. Let's get on with it. That's a discussion for next summer, I believe the squad we have can get top 4 and be competitive and be a great starting point for a lot of our young players. Expecting much more is setting yourself up for disappointment. Hoping for more is part of being a fan

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7 minutes ago, Hutcho said:

We've got like 16 trophies in the last 16 years. To say we are being run so poorly is somewhat laughable and makes it sound like we're all playing football manager.

Yeah we could do with strengthening particularly in defence and at striker but saying we're inept is a bit of a stretch.

And as already said. What we got is what we got. Let's get on with it. That's a discussion for next summer, I believe the squad we have can get top 4 and be competitive and be a great starting point for a lot of our young players. Expecting much more is setting yourself up for disappointment. Hoping for more is part of being a fan

has zero to do with Football Manager

FM allusions are a sure tell for a weak argument

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has zero to do with Football Manager
FM allusions are a sure tell for a weak argument
No one can just say we should just buy xyz there's so many factors involved.

And it doesn't change the first part where there's about 90 clubs who'd love to have the people we have in charge

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34 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't think you'll find a Chelsea fan who will disagree with you on that but not sure what the constant complaining is gonna achieve...

Thats fair my man, but it bugs me to no end we see the same mistakes and nothing is done eventhough the shit is looking right at you. When is the time to act? We are not run as a Club in footy matters, that much is obvious. But ok we have Lamps now with lots of younglings, a new start.....but will only get us so far if the board has crap vision and have almost no foresight. We are Chelsea.

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40 minutes ago, Hutcho said:

We've got like 16 trophies in the last 16 years. To say we are being run so poorly is somewhat laughable and makes it sound like we're all playing football manager.

Yeah we could do with strengthening particularly in defence and at striker but saying we're inept is a bit of a stretch.

And as already said. What we got is what we got. Let's get on with it. That's a discussion for next summer, I believe the squad we have can get top 4 and be competitive and be a great starting point for a lot of our young players. Expecting much more is setting yourself up for disappointment. Hoping for more is part of being a fan

You are settling....we couyld easily be much better. We need footy folks at the helm, that will be a decent start. Not lawyers and business folks. Sure we need them too but footy experienced folks for footy matters. And we are not saying get that and this player. Just be fast in the market, identify the right players and go for the kill. Have some form of insight, try not to let the team go stale, dont settle for average players that you pay so much for, have plan for the future and act fast. This is the worst squad we have for many many many years.

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We got smashed by 4-0 to a poor United team. Feck me, I can't imagine this Wednesday against Liverpool. Maybe we have a chance because it's in Istanbul and not at Anfield, but that's not saying much.

This transfer ban has really fecked us in the ass and something tells me the worst has yet to come. That defense is more shaker than Arsenal's at the moment. We need Kante and Rudiger back in there PRONTO.

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You are settling....we couyld easily be much better. We need footy folks at the helm, that will be a decent start. Not lawyers and business folks. Sure we need them too but footy experienced folks for footy matters. And we are not saying get that and this player. Just be fast in the market, identify the right players and go for the kill. Have some form of insight, try not to let the team go stale, dont settle for average players that you pay so much for, have plan for the future and act fast. This is the worst squad we have for many many many years.


Maybe the worst squad currently but one of the most promising going forwards for years.

Pulisic 20
Mount 20
RLC 23
CHO 18
Etc etc

Developing youth takes time. Sure this season may be rough at times but we could be better for it in the long term. I've waited years for someone to give some our players with great potential a chance and now we have so let's see what happens

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Had a chance to digest the game and there are surprisingly a lot of positives to take from a 4-0 defeat but some serious defensive flaws that need to be sorted out yesterday.

I was impressed with the overall application in our attacking play. We dominated much of the first hour at Old Trafford in the first game of the season, getting the crowd quiet and anxious very early on. I would have expected United to be the team to come out the blocks early at home and it is testament to Lampard's work in pre season and confidence in our players to be confident enough to do that in our first game. 

We're clearly talking fine margins in the first half, two times we hit the post, a couple of missed opportunities with the wrong final ball and of course the mistakes that gave United the penalty. Pedro giving the ball away in the middle of the pitch was really poor and then Zouma's rashness in the tackle. He had the situation under control because Rashford would have had to do something to get on the outside of him and still use his left foot and cutting inside was running straight back into Zouma and traffic tracking back. He just panicked and it was really poor. The poor pass he played a couple of minutes before in his own box shredded his confidence and he never recovered from that all game. However that half we could have easily been 2 or 3 goals up and being a goal down to United the writing was on the wall in the second half. It played into their strength's perfectly with the pace they have up the pitch and we got punished for that.

Probably the most disappointing part of the game was I feel the more experienced players didn't perform. Pedro will always work hard but he gave some really poor balls away in the middle of the pitch, Azpilicueta struggled at both ends and Zouma (who should be a far more experienced and polished defender currently than Christensen) buckled under the pressure. The younger players didn't set the world alight but they certainly didn't disgrace themselves. Mount has got bundles of energy and he's a very tidy player, particularly in tight spaces. His decision making in the final third needs to improve but that needs not just experience but also time adapting to playing with different players and their movements.

I also thought Tammy Abraham played pretty well too today and I'm not sure why so many are already writing him off. If his shot off the post screamed in those first 5 minutes I'm pretty sure he'd be a nailed on starter for the rest of the season in most peoples eyes. For me he pressed well and was lively and energetic. If Lampard wants to play in this way moving forward then I cannot see Giroud playing much because he just isn't mobile and quick enough to do that. There is a rawness and inconsistency to some of his play - in some passages of play he held the ball up well or linked up with others around him and in other passages he gave the ball away way too easily. Again it's something we're going to have to deal with by bringing young players in that they will suffer from consistency early on and it shouldn't be forgotten that it's rather the baptism of fire playing United away for them.

Having said all of that the mistakes need to stop being made. Even though the threat was there, up until the second goal United barely created anything and any sniffs of counter attacks were dealt with pretty well. But the second and third goals showed how easy you can get cut open against that threat. The defence needs to be sorted out and its one area of the pitch Lampard shouldn't be tinkering with too much unless there are injuries or suspensions, or cup games. The back four needs to be settled and gain experience working with each other. I could honestly see him settling on a back four of James, Christensen, Rudiger and Emerson once everyone is fit but it would require Rudiger stepping up to lead the back line. He definitely has the character to do this from what I've seen since he's been here but there is a difference becoming the 'senior' defender. Lamps after the game specifically said he expects Reece James to play a big part this season so it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that Azpi starts being phased out or heavily rotated.

However, Lampard needs to get more out of the players he has now. Even with Rudiger and Kante coming back, they won't be match fit and it will take them time and some games to get to where they should be expected to be. Kante looked very rusty when he came on today so it's not a given that the two can just slot back in immediately and everything is all good again.

The other thing to note is the last 30 minutes we still toiled but ran out of gas. The quickfire second and third goals would help with that to deflate the team but there also needs to be a bit of experience that we cannot play in a relentless, frenetic tempo all game every game. Liverpool early days under Klopp used to be the same and were very inconsistent, it will take some time and patience but we need to learn early that at stages of the game we need to manage a bit better and just regain a bit of energy.

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Just now, Hutcho said:

And it doesn't change the first part where there's about 90 clubs who'd love to have the people we have in charge

shit clubs do NOT count

and there are almost none of the top 15, or 20 clubs who would have swapped the board of the last several years with theirs

that is just simply false to claim, the only one who may be close is Manure, even AC Milan has righted their ship

so many of the others do more with massively less assets than we potentially have

we have made multiple and disastrous (both in terms of shitting away hundreds of millions in revenue and in overall player signings and non signings) moves over the past 5 plus years

mismanaged contract situations, been forced into panic sales and buys after panic sales and buys, and also broken the laws of world football to a point where we got banned for 2 full transfer windows, as well as not backing 2 great managers right after they won titles (especially Conte)

it is literally wilful ignorance and/or a crystalline form of pure denial to say we are competently run overall in the past several years, say 2014 (de Bruyne sale with no buyback kicked it all off for this timeframe) and onward

The Conte hire was brilliant but then we undid that good work by not backing him

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Not reading too much into the result itself. This game could have ended 3-3 as well. Decent performance combined with poor finishing, dreadful defending at times together with some unlucky moments.

Kurt Zouma is not good enough to play at Chelsea. Said it before and said it again. He can look great playing for Everton, Southampton or Wolves but not for Chelsea. Jury is still out there for Abraham but I wasn't too convinced with what I've been seeing during preseason and tonight. The rest are definitely good enough and once we get Kante and Rudiger back into the team we'll definitely become a more solid team defensively. Very happy with Emerson's performance by the way, he surely looked like a proper leftback.

But where are the goals gonna come from? That's the real worry right now and has been ever since Diego Costa left the team.

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