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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

4,817 posts in this topic

I wouldn't give Lampard until Jan - we spent >200M in the summer!!! There are teams far below us in quality that pay with some strategy, tactics, etc. - look at Lokomotiv last night FFS! If things don't pick up, and it sure doesn't look like it, I want Lampard replaced. Don't care much for legacy - need to separate church and state / player and manager. No hard feelings if the sack is early;  

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

Matt Law set the "trap" and Lampard took the bait by saying what he said...again. 

Yep. 

Franks a smart guy but even if it was set up or not set up, I thought he would know that it was a bit of a daft comment to make.

I remember Roy Keane saying he was avoiding criticism last season in the same way OGS was because he was English in the Sky Sports studio, where we had lost as many/more games than United at the time and while its not completely all true to turn around and say he's judged more due to being only Englishman managing in the top 6 of the PL is absurd.

I would say it would buy him less criticism because we've all seen how people want young talented English players to do in the past and don't see how its any different with managers? I mean look at Eddie Howe as well, youngish English manager who a few seasons ago was linked with the England job before Southgate got it full time? As well as the Arsenal job and Everton jobs in the past few seasons. Despite the fact he probably escaped criticism based on how many goals Bournemouth conceded because they "always tried to play football the right way" which again I don't think was necessarily true because there was a lot of games where they sat in and counter attacked particularly the last 2 seasons they were in the PL. Where as Sean Dyche has probably done a better job in terms of the budget he's been given to work with at Burnley and people wouldnt even consider him for anything more than Burnley (did they not go through Europa League qualification one season?) Not saying he will ever be top notch or that but the young manager thing is probably similar to young players (well most places bar here), where they can get a lot of hype or a lot of leeway with regards to criticism. 

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Let's suppose Lampard is sacked tomorrow - who is available as a caretaker?  Theoretically could Poch come right away or is he on long-term vacation? 

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24 minutes ago, DANILA said:

Let's suppose Lampard is sacked tomorrow - who is available as a caretaker?  Theoretically could Poch come right away or is he on long-term vacation? 

Poch has said he cant wait to come back, and im sure he would jump on the spot. Whether we go for him is another matter.

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Please, Please, Please let this be a reality check for him. 

STICK WITH WHAT"S WORKED. 433 with quick transition football. Only after lock down with his constant chopping and changing we have looked individualistic. 

Werner

Pulisic-------------Ziyech

Mount---Havertz

Kante

Chilwell---Zouma---Silva----James

Mendy 

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Today's win doesn't erase all the doubts hanging over Lampard but I guess the result buys him some more time to (hopefully) sort us out properly.

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Today's win doesn't erase all the doubts hanging over Lampard but I guess the result buys him some more time to (hopefully) sort us out properly.

Since start of the season I felt 4-3-3 with kante as sitting and Kai and mount as 2 no 8s would be our best formation, somehow this is the first time we played that. 

Jorginho should not be on the pitch. I am sure his fan boys will show some weird stat, showing he made x number of passes, but that guy fucks us up in attack and in defence. He is the definition of a passenger. 

This 4-3-3 suits us, and will bring the best out of our group of attackers. I hope we play this rather than putting in jorginho on the pitch. Moreover once we get a proper DM like rice, we can just plug him in while keeping everything the same rather than have the whole system erupt once again. 

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@Tomo 

I know you have pointed out how good our style of play was under Frank in the early part of last season, with the 4-3-3 and Kovacic/Jorginho in midfield

In hindsight, I do wonder if that was a by-product of 1 year of play under Sarri, or something that Frank wanted, and introduced.

I'd like to think its the latter, as it seemed like a breath of fresh air compared to the majority of our games under Sarri, were we seemed to have dollops of possession with no-real end product.

I guess Frank did over complicate things since the season re-start, but our play these days doesn't seem to resemble any of the high press, high octane football from early last season.

Hope its just development phase, where he is trying to reintroduce those tactics to a rebuilt first 11

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On 10/27/2020 at 1:22 PM, Jason said:

I know we haven't won at Old Trafford in a while but I didn't realize our recent record has been that bad, especially when compared to some of the other sides. So many of the United teams post-Fergie have been terrible and we haven't beaten them there once! :rant:

Ironic, considering that we used to be the MOST (or one of the most) dangerous team to visit Old Trafford during the Fergie era.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

@Tomo 

I know you have pointed out how good our style of play was under Frank in the early part of last season, with the 4-3-3 and Kovacic/Jorginho in midfield

In hindsight, I do wonder if that was a by-product of 1 year of play under Sarri, or something that Frank wanted, and introduced.

I'd like to think its the latter, as it seemed like a breath of fresh air compared to the majority of our games under Sarri, were we seemed to have dollops of possession with no-real end product.

I guess Frank did over complicate things since the season re-start, but our play these days doesn't seem to resemble any of the high press, high octane football from early last season.

Hope its just development phase, where he is trying to reintroduce those tactics to a rebuilt first 11

I don't think it can be solely explained as a by-product of Sarri (although no doubt there was a sweet spot where his positional play and Frank's expressive freedom hit a sweet spot) as we had performances in the two months leading to lock down that were excellent (Burnley, Arsenal despite the draw, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton, could argue patches of the Leicester and United games too).

I'm not sure what has happened since then, I can't work out if Frank is overcomplicating things or the new signings (Werner, Chilwell and Kai were as good as done when we restarted the season in June) have made him feel more pressure and become more results at all costs based.

The performances vs WBA and today after we reverted to 433 two 8's should be enough evidence to mean we persist with this formation now, it's no coincidence we've played well every time we've used that formation. 

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1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Per favore, per favore, per favore lascia che questo sia un test di realtà per lui. 

BASTONO CON QUELLO CHE FUNZIONA. 433 con il calcio a transizione rapida. Solo dopo aver bloccato con il suo continuo tagliare e cambiare siamo sembrati individualisti. 

Werner

Pulisic ------------- Ziyech

Monte --- Havertz

Kante

Chilwell --- Zouma --- Silva ---- James

Mendy 

gilmour instead of kante will be great

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On 19.10.2020 at 5:06 AM, Magic Lamps said:

Exactly. we allowed even less shots on average last season and had one of the best shots on target and xG statistic in the league last season still conceded a ton of goals. That’s the whole point. we concede a lot of goals despite conceding fewer shots than most teams. Gk makes a huge difference 

we are yet to concede a goal when both Mendy and Chilwell are playing. Albeit in just 155 mins. If we are still shipping 2-3  goals per game when those two are consistently starting, I am not gonna defend Lampard anymore but until then there is the benefit of the doubt 

Stll not conceded a goal with Mendy and Chilwell on the pitch. We will never be perfect at the back but no team is. City, pool, Bayern all concede tons of chances and still are bailed out by their goalies. we are still not super solid but we make the chances we concede difficult enough for mendy to have a chance to save the shots which he has done excellently so far. This alone I would consider an improvement. Today was not a perfect match but I dont think we ever were not in control of the game given the quality of chances we conceded and the amount of chances we created. So there is progress even if it is just baby steps.

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As more time passes I'm under the certainty that if we get rice we will be close to complete. 

We got good offense, and improved the defense with mendy and chilwell. 

But our midfield is killing us. 

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2 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

It's clear the midfield is the problem. Look at how different we looked immediately he made Kante the lone Defensive Midfielder, Mount in his best position as a central midfielder, Kai as an attacking eight. Rice would have been playing the lone DM if he was signed. 

All the players who we said were not playing well started playing better immediately we switched to 4-3-3. Happy to see 

I'm no fan of Kante as a sitting DM but i'll suck it up in the short term if that's what it takes to make 433 two 8's our main formation. I wonder if we have an Ake esque recall clause on Gallagher... 

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

I'm no fan of Kante as a sitting DM but i'll suck it up in the short term if that's what it takes to make 433 two 8's our main formation. I wonder if we have an Ake esque recall clause on Gallagher... 

I hope not, he is playing well. Letting him get some minutes.  Kova and Ziyech are decent back ups to the no.8 positions.

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But TC thinks that Lampard's tactics were horrible and showed how bad of a coach he is, while apparently Nagelsmann is a world class coach and gets completely outmastered by Ole, who apparently is also according to TC a horrible coach like Lampard . Typical TC drama queens.

United beat PSG, got a draw against us and smashed Leipzig, who have a world class coach in Nagelsmann (TC opinion). They are not as bad as TC make them to be.

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On 27/10/2020 at 5:22 PM, Jason said:

I know we haven't won at Old Trafford in a while but I didn't realize our recent record has been that bad, especially when compared to some of the other sides. So many of the United teams post-Fergie have been terrible and we haven't beaten them there once! :rant:

No I didn't until was said in the commentary! Had to check.

Definitely not a favoured side for us..last league win was 2017...and since then played them 10 times with league games and Cup games..and won twice...

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