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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

4,744 posts in this topic
Just now, Tomo said:

Difference is we know Lampard has a way to go

This was true up until a certain point last season. Now, it's all up in the air...

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Arteta's being made out to be incredible already and being used as an example as how Lampard should do things.

I mean if you think Lampard moving players is infuriating, Arteta just played Willian yes Willian upfront.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Arteta, who I think is a tad overhyped all because he was Guardiola's assistant. 

But he seems to have given Arsenal a bit more structure in terms of how they play as opposed to what we are seeing with our team. 

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7 minutes ago, Jason said:

This was true up until a certain point last season. Now, it's all up in the air...

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Arteta, who I think is a tad overhyped all because he was Guardiola's assistant. 

But he seems to have given Arsenal a bit more structure in terms of how they play as opposed to what we are seeing with our team. 

Has he though? They regularly go long spells in games without even having a shot and if they were as solid at the back as people are making out Martinez wouldn't have been able to play his way to a big money transfer with a month's worth of performances. Infact they were getting torn apart by Liverpool (both Anfield games) in ways we weren't even with 10 men. 

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10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Think rubbish is a strong word.

They struggled at times at the beginning but if you watch Arsenal under Emery and now the difference is night and day in terms of intensity and tempo. If that was there prior to Arteta’s appointment they would of made a better start. Also the styles so clear to see where as here I am still unsure what sort of team we are trying to be. If you want to compare the progression that we’ve made with Frank and what Arsenal have made with Arteta, theres one team who have definitely made the better progression where as we have gone backwards after a promising 3 and a bit/4 months at the start of last season. I think they will be up there as well.

Its going to be incredibly tight regardless because City, Liverpool, Everton, Spurs, us and Arsenal will all be going for 4 places, be it a primary objective or a minimum requirement. I am really surprised that Everton look really really good because with Carlo last it was very similar to what Jose had with Spurs last season also. Didn't look great.

I do think its just because of the instant change and improvement hes managed to get out of that group. Where as unfortunately we kind of went one step forward then 2 backwards, after a frustrating time with Sarri which you could argue lowered the fans expectations because it was seen as boring (although still think this style was always going to take time and you could see that with a decent CF and attacking players - much like we have signed now - that the goals would come) but really I would rather we had an identity which was clear to see and notice than being how we are right now. Which is I dont know what. Moments of quality from individuals has helped us but still very predictable.

But wasn't that similar with Emery at the start? Everyone got kiddy because he wasn't Wenger.

Arteta has basically stripped any creativity in this Arsenal side to try and make them look more solid and as i said it hasn't really worked, they may not concede 10 plus chances a game like they did under Emery but they are still heavily reliant on last season Martinez and now Leno to pull them through.

Their defense still looks pretty poor when you consider what's been sacrafised the other way, the two times we abandoned attack structure to focus on defense last season (Liverpool and City at home) we looked more solid.

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15 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Has he though? They regularly go long spells in games without even having a shot and if they were as solid at the back as people are making out Martinez wouldn't have been able to play his way to a big money transfer with a month's worth of performances. Infact they were getting torn apart by Liverpool (both Anfield games) in ways we weren't even with 10 men. 

And we didn't get tear apart by Liverpool at Anfield last season?

What does having a structure gotta do with going long spells in games without having a shot etc? Are you telling me that Mourinho or Conte didn't have a structure for the team when we had similar games in the past?

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4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But wasn't that similar with Emery at the start? Everyone got kiddy because he wasn't Wenger.

Arteta has basically stripped any creativity in this Arsenal side to try and make them look more solid and as i said it hasn't really worked, they may not concede 10 plus chances a game like they did under Emery but they are still heavily reliant on last season Martinez and now Leno to pull them through.

Their defense still looks pretty poor when you consider what's been sacrafised the other way, the two times we abandoned attack structure to focus on defense last season (Liverpool and City at home) we looked more solid.

Arteta is trying to give them CL footy at all cost, I think they will get it unless Auba gets injured

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8 minutes ago, Jason said:

And we didn't get tear apart by Liverpool at Anfield last season?

What does having a structure gotta do with going long spells in games without having a shot etc? Are you telling me that Mourinho or Conte didn't have a structure for the team when we have similar games in the past?

That's the point, Arteta has tried to make them more defensively astute and hasn't really succeeded (unless you class better than Emery alone succeeding), they're still relying on their keepers pulling of a masterclass too often. For the amount of creative freedom he's took away from that side just to aid the defense, they shouldn't still be relying on their keepers as much as they still do. 

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41 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Lol you've been waiting for him to get a few wins just to say that haven't you? Reminds me of the Torres cult after he scored two games running.

So far they are doing much better than us. Where has our spending got us to?

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4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

That's the point, Arteta has tried to make them more defensively astute and hasn't really succeeded (unless you class better than Emery alone succeeding), they're still relying on their keepers pulling of a masterclass too often. For the amount of creative freedom he's took away from that side just to aid the defense, they shouldn't still be relying on their keepers as much as they still do. 

And what is Lampard trying to make us?

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3 minutes ago, ZaynChelsea said:

So far they are doing much better than us. Where has our spending got us to?

So far being the key words, Spurs looked broken a mere month ago when they fell to that Everton defeat and narrowly beat a semi pro side.

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

And what is Lampard trying to make us?

If Lampard ever butcheres our creativity in exchange for more solidarity like Arteta has done the minimum requirement would be to become the best defense in the league. 

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4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If Lampard ever butcheres our creativity in exchange for more solidarity like Arteta has done the minimum requirement would be to become the best defense in the league. 

You're not answering the question. :readthemessage:

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Stop it with Arteta. They can play it out at the back but that‘s it. There is nothing about Arsenal that scares me and Arteta is just too much hype. Brutally overrated.

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

You're not answering the question. :readthemessage:

Brought through & believed in a stream of young players which has (a) saved us millions in the long term (b) given others in the academy belief there is a pathway where there wasn't before (c) beefed up our squad depth considerably.

Like AVB has frozen plenty of players out, but unlike AVB has managed to get responses out of them, e.g. Giroud, Pulisic, Zouma, etc... goes in tandem with the fact there's no stories about any unrest in the camp.

Roman believes in him & so have high profile signings like Havertz, Werner, etc... it takes a lot of people to make deals like that happen. If players like Havertz, who'd of had the world at his feet in 12 months, comes to Chelsea in 2020 you can be sure Lampard had a positive hand in it.

The media like him. There's very few negative stories about us in general atm which helps the players stay on point (easy reason to dismiss, but more important than people think).

For all the defensive & set piece issues, some of the attacking play last season was fantastic, and despite not clicking into gear yet we've still score 13 goals in 5 matches. Come early next year we'll be wrecking teams once the fluidity's there.

I have my doubts on whether he can take us to the next level himself, but i have no doubt that worse case he's left a fantastic platform for someone who can (ala Ranieri to Mou).

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50 minutes ago, Tomo said:

But wasn't that similar with Emery at the start? Everyone got kiddy because he wasn't Wenger.

Arteta has basically stripped any creativity in this Arsenal side to try and make them look more solid and as i said it hasn't really worked, they may not concede 10 plus chances a game like they did under Emery but they are still heavily reliant on last season Martinez and now Leno to pull them through.

Their defense still looks pretty poor when you consider what's been sacrafised the other way, the two times we abandoned attack structure to focus on defense last season (Liverpool and City at home) we looked more solid.

I think at the start he improved the structure of Arsenal again but then it fell away as we all seen. They were getting like 1 shot on target and drawing 0-0 or conceding stupid goals etc. 

Wouldn't say that he has stripped the side of all creativity but he has made them more rigid and they are more stubborn in terms of playing his way or not at all in the build up. They aren’t creating a lot of chances I will agree with you on that but think that again, Arsenals key creative players over the years have been guys like Mesut Ozil who wont be involved now, Ramsey and Sanchez who are gone. Pepe is more of a goalscorer. Willian as we know very inconsistent and produced only his best season statistically last season so I don’t necessarily think they were blessed with huge amounts of creativity before with Emery either.

They still have issues in defence but Rob Holding and David Luiz aren’t any use for a club wanting to be successful. Gabriel is good, still adapting obviously but he will improve and having watched Tierney since he was making his way at Celtic and playing for the NT, I think he is more than good enough but has probably not started this season as well as he finished last season. I don’t know if they will keep this 343 that seems to go to a 433 in possession. Arteta strikes me as a guy who will want to be like Guardiola or maybe a better comparison Louis Van Gaal, very much his way or no way, stubborn, he will be a 433 or 4231 guy more than likely eventually but probably realises he can't do it with that defence although they seem to go to that in possession.

He is overhyped I do think that but think the same could also be said of a lot of the managers in these bigger clubs like Frank, Ole and Arteta in particular. I just think the ideas of what he wants his team to do and the effect he has had is clearer to see. 

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4 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Brought through & believed in a stream of young players which has (a) saved us millions in the long term (b) given others in the academy belief there is a pathway where there wasn't before (c) beefed up our squad depth considerably.

Like AVB has frozen plenty of players out, but unlike AVB has managed to get responses out of them, e.g. Giroud, Pulisic, Zouma, etc... goes in tandem with the fact there's no stories about any unrest in the camp.

Roman believes in him & so have high profile signings like Havertz, Werner, etc... it takes a lot of people to make deals like that happen. If players like Havertz, who'd of had the world at his feet in 12 months, comes to Chelsea in 2020 you can be sure Lampard had a positive hand in it.

The media like him. There's very few negative stories about us in general atm which helps the players stay on point (easy reason to dismiss, but more important than people think).

For all the defensive & set piece issues, some of the attacking play last season was fantastic, and despite not clicking into gear yet we've still score 13 goals in 5 matches. Come early next year we'll be wrecking teams once the fluidity's there.

I have my doubts on whether he can take us to the next level himself, but i have no doubt that worse case he's left a fantastic platform for someone who can (ala Ranieri to Mou).

Not gonna disagree but was talking about playing style, Tomo. What is our identity? What is our playing style? What are we trying to be on the pitch?

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4 minutes ago, Jason said:

Not gonna disagree but was talking about playing style, Tomo. What is our identity? What is our playing style? What are we trying to be on the pitch?

Trying to be direct possession based side something inbetween City and Liverpool (hence last season we didn't have less possession in a PL match until City at home), when it works it's really good (first half yesterday) but at the moment Lampard's a bit raw with his decision making re selections and subs which can halt our momentum. 

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Trying to be direct possession based side something inbetween City and Liverpool (hence last season we didn't have less possession in a PL match until City at home), when it works it's really good (first half yesterday) but at the moment Lampard's a bit raw with his decision making re selections and subs which can halt our momentum. 

If only our problems were down to dodgy selections and subs.

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4 hours ago, Tomo said:

Maybe we were dominated by BHA but how many games last season did that happen in reverse? Apparently only the result mattered then.

The fact that Palace created all those chances at OT with 20% possession proves my point, why would they refuse to (counter) attack a side when they had so much success vs a side with a better defensive record that also finished above us a mere fortnight before?

Not for me, I have been a staunch supporter of FL, but tell me what is there to support now?

I would rather have the 4-0 performance in the defeat to United than this shit show that we are playing this season. We don't have a system, we don't have tactical awareness. Its just going bad to worse.

As for palace, of course, they won't change the way they played successfully. But that's what my point is. Any team that tries to take the initiative and take us on, wins the battle. I can see us struggling massively this season because except for Burnley, whu, Newcastle and palace, I don't know any team that would simply sit passively. 

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2 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

LOL @ the people here laughing at Mourinho being a dinosaur and past it. He seems to have sorted out Spurs for the time being and I rate them higher atm than ourselves.

Our greenhorn isn‘t past it - he never reached it. Mourinho still won the league with us being past it. Lamps only spends without any positive outcome.

Has he really? They were 3-0 up then pulled a Chelsea.

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2 hours ago, ZaynChelsea said:

LOL @ the people here laughing at Mourinho being a dinosaur and past it. He seems to have sorted out Spurs for the time being and I rate them higher atm than ourselves.

Our greenhorn isn‘t past it - he never reached it. Mourinho still won the league with us being past it. Lamps only spends without any positive outcome.

This hasn't aged very well. 

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

This hasn't aged very well. 

If you see the similarities between Spurs and us, I‘m sorry.

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