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Jason

Super Frank Thread

Started by Jason,

2,808 posts in this topic

For all those who want to see Frank sacked after 8 months and no new signings.

Should the next manager, and the one after that and the one after that be given only 8 months to turn things around and start making us look like title contenders? If not, then you are not being fair or consistent.

At the start of the season we all knew there'd be lots of ups and downs but we'd be prepared to put up with that during the rebuilding of the team. We've had exactly what we expected but already some have turned against the manager. 

Liverpool finished 8th in Klopp's first season and it took him 3-4 years to turn things around. The Liverpool fans stayed fully behind the manager and the the team and look where they are now.

It was mentioned yet again in the match day thread on Tuesday about the poor atmosphere at the Bridge. If we're not going to support the manger and the struggling team better than we're doing then we really don't deserve to be a top club any more!

 

 

 

.

 

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17 hours ago, Tomo said:

Thankyou and I apologize aswell as I crossed the line in areas especially with the Boris/Brexit comments,

Lol Iggy is the polar opposite -he's a union rep like myself.

I notice it always kicks off on here when we get a bad loss. You two have Chelsea at heart, and is forgivable  -unlike others that turn up on here when we lose just to stir shit. 

Back to Frank I think he speaks well after the matches, win or lose. One I thing I don't get is Tomori should be first on the team sheet next to Rudi. Bottom line he has to have time and some buys. Then again its just my opinion like everyone else has one, meaningless really.

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20 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

The problem is I don't envisage any style of play being immediately successful with our current group of players because it's such a contrasting mix.

Most of our older, experienced players have been through the Conte era, and even the Mourinho era and either suit or have been coached into them the defensive, conservative style of football.

Then we have the few players we've brought in the last 18 months and our academy players who suit a more progressive, attacking style. 

Based on the above, it makes sense to continue trying to build in a more progressive, attack minded nature rather than the defensive, pragmatic one where we'd almost be needing to rebuild again from scratch. The signing of Ziyech suggests we're not planning to waver from this currently either.

Until we're able to build with 15-18 players, let alone a squad, that all suit and complement a particular style of play we're going to have problems. This is the point of being patient, we're less than 2 years into making a complete change of philosophy which is hard enough, let alone losing a world class goalkeeper and our best player/talisman whilst navigating a transfer ban. In reality we need another couple of summer transfer windows before we're likely to be anything capable of challenging at the top of the league.Until then, we need to show some progression.

I don't think it's necessarily that black and white, in the sense that you have to choose one playing style and play that only. We gotta be a bit flexible and be able to do both if we want to succeed in the long run. Yes, we should have a predominant style of play - e.g. attacking football - but we must also know how to play conservatively/how to be pragmatic (and I don't mean we should take it to the extreme like Mourinho does) and when to do it, whenever necessary. If we only know one way of playing, we'll eventually become predictable and can be easy to stop. Even Guardiola and Klopp aren't 100% all about attacking football, they also know when to rein in a little by making small tactical tweaks etc when the game requires it. The most disappointing thing for me with our current side is the lack of pragmatism, the inability to be defensively organized (we don't look well coached defensively at all), the inability to withstand pressure when needed to. Ask this team to sit back and defend for even just 5 minutes and chances are we will very likely concede, which is silly when you consider half of the current side have played at least under a conservative manager like Conte previously (e.g. Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger, Alonso, Emerson, Kante, Giroud, Willian, Pedro, Barkley). Right now, we only know how to attack, attack, attack at 200 miles per hour. It's great when it works, when we are able to dominate possession and pin the opposition back but when it doesn't, we turn the game into a basketball game [e.g. Valencia away, (to some extent) Bayern at home], which is a recipe for disaster given we aren't coached on how to defend properly. 

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12 hours ago, Tomo said:

I still think he should have done a lot better in the last few years given Real/Barca lulls.

Everyone raves about Simeone while mocking Benitez but the latter actually managed to succeed where Simeone failed and took advantage of Real/Barca transition periods to win two titles while with Valencia, since 2016 Simeone has had a glorious chance to similarly sweep up and hasn't took it.

Yeah but its not like for like is it, that was in what 2002-03? He is not exactly loaded with Cash either like barca and rm. Many of his players have been sold or grown too old by footy standards. His spending has been very minimal compared to the other 2 overall. He is quality manager, one that is tactically astute, he knows how to shape a team, how to organize.........def a master at motivating his lot and making sure they fight till the end. I miss that here I really do.

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how shit the EPL is this season

Chelsea at 41 points before the Spuds game were the worst 4th place team points-wise 26 games in since 2003/4

if we won EVERY remaining game left

we would only end up on 77, ffs

that would still be THIRTY-FIVE points behind the bindippers if they win out

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4 hours ago, Jason said:

I don't think it's necessarily that black and white, in the sense that you have to choose one playing style and play that only. We gotta be a bit flexible and be able to do both if we want to succeed in the long run. Yes, we should have a predominant style of play - e.g. attacking football - but we must also know how to play conservatively/how to be pragmatic (and I don't mean we should take it to the extreme like Mourinho does) and when to do it, whenever necessary. If we only know one way of playing, we'll eventually become predictable and can be easy to stop. Even Guardiola and Klopp aren't 100% all about attacking football, they also know when to rein in a little by making small tactical tweaks etc when the game requires it. The most disappointing thing for me with our current side is the lack of pragmatism, the inability to be defensively organized (we don't look well coached defensively at all), the inability to withstand pressure when needed to. Ask this team to sit back and defend for even just 5 minutes and chances are we will very likely concede, which is silly when you consider half of the current side have played at least under a conservative manager like Conte previously (e.g. Azpi, Christensen, Rudiger, Alonso, Emerson, Kante, Giroud, Willian, Pedro, Barkley). Right now, we only know how to attack, attack, attack at 200 miles per hour. It's great when it works, when we are able to dominate possession and pin the opposition back but when it doesn't, we turn the game into a basketball game [e.g. Valencia away, (to some extent) Bayern at home], which is a recipe for disaster given we aren't coached on how to defend properly. 

I agree with what your saying, there has to be more than just a plan A and we do need to be able to withstand and soak up pressure at times in games. That's the most disappointing aspect of a number of these losses is we've dominated the game and then been unable to cope with not much more than a 5 or 10 minute period of pressure from the opposition.

You mentioned Guardiola and Klopp but they both needed time to implement their styles and both were initially suspect at the back, with both spending a lot of money to rectify that.

Apart from Tomori and James, the rest of our defence played under Mourinho and/or Conte, being used to playing deep leaving little space behind them and were also well protected in front of them. They're being found out massively now that we're trying to play expansive football. 

The other problem in our defence is there's no leader there. I love Azpi and the career he's given the club but he's not really a leader. None of our defence have ever needed to be the leader in the backline. They've all played alongside Terry, Cahill and to a lesser degree Luiz and so none have needed to do this previously. I was hoping Rudiger would become that player and he's still got time on his side to develop and be that player because he does have leadership-like traits about him. 

I'm not going to argue that defensively we're not good enough currently under Lampard and he has to take a lot of responsibility for that. But also until one of our defenders (preferably a centre back) is prepared to become the leader we need to marshal and organise that back four, we're going to keep struggling.

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24 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I agree with what your saying, there has to be more than just a plan A and we do need to be able to withstand and soak up pressure at times in games. That's the most disappointing aspect of a number of these losses is we've dominated the game and then been unable to cope with not much more than a 5 or 10 minute period of pressure from the opposition.

You mentioned Guardiola and Klopp but they both needed time to implement their styles and both were initially suspect at the back, with both spending a lot of money to rectify that.

Apart from Tomori and James, the rest of our defence played under Mourinho and/or Conte, being used to playing deep leaving little space behind them and were also well protected in front of them. They're being found out massively now that we're trying to play expansive football. 

The other problem in our defence is there's no leader there. I love Azpi and the career he's given the club but he's not really a leader. None of our defence have ever needed to be the leader in the backline. They've all played alongside Terry, Cahill and to a lesser degree Luiz and so none have needed to do this previously. I was hoping Rudiger would become that player and he's still got time on his side to develop and be that player because he does have leadership-like traits about him. 

I'm not going to argue that defensively we're not good enough currently under Lampard and he has to take a lot of responsibility for that. But also until one of our defenders (preferably a centre back) is prepared to become the leader we need to marshal and organise that back four, we're going to keep struggling.

The individuals are a problem and individual mistakes have fucked us up a lot this season but at the same time, not many people have questioned how we have allowed the goals we conceded come about. How often have we - as a unit - made life difficult for opponents to score against us this season? How often have we - as a unit - made opponents work really hard or have to come up with something special to score against us? Take the Bayern game for example. Yes, they are a class above us but look at how much space they had every time they went on the offence and they pretty much were able to get at our defence on every attack. We barely stopped their attacks in midfield or far away from our penalty box. And we also didn't help matters by overcommitting in attack - both wingbacks just bombed forward, Kovacic/Jorginho got forward - and that led to many easy turnovers for Bayern, who probably couldn't believe their luck at the amount of space they got to play with! That's why I said we need to be a little pragmatic, especially in cases like this. Bayern were always expected to win and that's fine but I would have preferred if we had reined it back a little, played more streetwise rather than played with reckless abandon. We gave ourselves no chance whatsoever by being so open against them, especially knowing they have better players than us at this point of time. 

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22 minutes ago, Jason said:

The individuals are a problem and individual mistakes have fucked us up a lot this season but at the same time, not many people have questioned how we have allowed the goals we conceded come about. How often have we - as a unit - made life difficult for opponents to score against us this season? How often have we - as a unit - made opponents work really hard or have to come up with something special to score against us? Take the Bayern game for example. Yes, they are a class above us but look at how much space they had every time they went on the offence and they pretty much were able to get at our defence on every attack. We barely stopped their attacks in midfield or far away from our penalty box. And we also didn't help matters by overcommitting in attack - both wingbacks just bombed forward, Kovacic/Jorginho got forward - and that led to many easy turnovers for Bayern, who probably couldn't believe their luck at the amount of space they got to play with! That's why I said we need to be a little pragmatic, especially in cases like this. Bayern were always expected to win and that's fine but I would have preferred if we had reined it back a little, played more streetwise rather than played with reckless abandon. We gave ourselves no chance whatsoever by being so open against them, especially knowing they have better players than us at this point of time. 

I think the Bayern game was a big mistake the way we set up. You're right a team of that ability were always going to exploit and hurt us. It seemed like having Giroud in the team and perhaps realising the qualities of Bayern, we tried playing more direct. It wasn't effective and leaving too many players caught out of position who were trying to commit to that. We didn't need to be overly cautious, but we should have tried dominating the ball more and picking our moments to up the tempo and commit players forward. 

If Lampard stays next season and gets a few players in it will be interesting to see how he evolves as a manager. I think at the start of the season he surveyed the squad at his disposal and realised if we weren't going to open up and take risks we'd struggle to score. We weren't a big scoring team in the league last season and Lampard didn't have four of the five highest goalscorers in the league last season available for this (Hazard, RLC, Higuain and Morata). The only other one in that top 5 was a 32 year old Pedro who himself hadn't scored a league goal since February in that season and whilst Lampard may have been able to make more use of him this season, he is starting to show his age and decline at this level.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I think the Bayern game was a big mistake the way we set up. You're right a team of that ability were always going to exploit and hurt us. It seemed like having Giroud in the team and perhaps realising the qualities of Bayern, we tried playing more direct. It wasn't effective and leaving too many players caught out of position who were trying to commit to that. We didn't need to be overly cautious, but we should have tried dominating the ball more and picking our moments to up the tempo and commit players forward. 

If Lampard stays next season and gets a few players in it will be interesting to see how he evolves as a manager. I think at the start of the season he surveyed the squad at his disposal and realised if we weren't going to open up and take risks we'd struggle to score. We weren't a big scoring team in the league last season and Lampard didn't have four of the five highest goalscorers in the league last season available for this (Hazard, RLC, Higuain and Morata). The only other one in that top 5 was a 32 year old Pedro who himself hadn't scored a league goal since February in that season and whilst Lampard may have been able to make more use of him this season, he is starting to show his age and decline at this level.

 

 

I don't think any of us really judging Lamp offensively, coming into the season we expect it to be a problem with Hazard leaving. 

The problem is on the other end. I really don't expect us to be this bad defensively. It has been a problem since pre season. We can't defend set pieces and we have massive problem against player who play between the lines, basically if the other team has player that can hurt us, they will. 

 

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I don't want to see the back of Frank. He came in as an inexperienced manager at a particularly difficult time. We knew there would be times that would show and it has, I have no desire for him to be sacked. Look at Klopp, we would have got rid 3 years ago.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

We gave ourselves no chance whatsoever by being so open against them, especially knowing they have better players than us at this point of time. 

A majour issue I have with FL is this, amazing he didnt see this coming.

 

35 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

I don't want to see the back of Frank. He came in as an inexperienced manager at a particularly difficult time. We knew there would be times that would show and it has, I have no desire for him to be sacked. Look at Klopp, we would have got rid 3 years ago.

No we wont but at the same time I just dont get the klopp and pep comparison. They had a proven track record, winners. And even in those times you could clearly see progress, I have seen none since oktober. He does not have experience yes but playing under the managers he had Im kinda shocked we see the same mistakes every game more or less. We needed to be more clever vs Bayern but werent.

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32 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

I don't want to see the back of Frank. He came in as an inexperienced manager at a particularly difficult time. We knew there would be times that would show and it has, I have no desire for him to be sacked. Look at Klopp, we would have got rid 3 years ago.

Thats not true, Klopp got to a Europa League Final his first season, his 2nd season he got top 4, third season he got to UCL final, 4th season he won UCL and 5th season he is winning EPL. Lampard has not shown anything to give him the benefit of the doubt, in fact we have gotten worse at the back of which we can argue that maybe earlier in the season he was still benefiting from Sarri's tactical work, our ball playing from the back has gotten worse. Kepa has his flaws but his regressed massively under Lampard and that is on him. Klopp had the ability to turn mediocre players into a better collective something Lamps has failed to do up to  this point. This season would have been better off with a Conte who can turn a turd into cavier. 

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13 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

No we wont but at the same time I just dont get the klopp and pep comparison.

 

13 minutes ago, Vybz Kartel said:

Thats not true, Klopp got to a Europa League Final his first season

Don't care. With our board they would have given him the Spanish archer.

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31 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

 

Don't care. With our board they would have given him the Spanish archer.

I saw el bow and though UJ was back!!!

lololol

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Roman Abramovich may sack Frank Lampard because of one person after Chelsea dispute

Chelsea chief Marina Granovskaia could encourage owner Roman Abramovich to sack Frank Lampard if form does not pick up.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1248285/Chelsea-news-Roman-Abramovich-sack-Frank-Lampard-Marina-Granovskaia

caveat emptor

it's The Express and that cunt Duncan Castles

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3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

I saw el bow and though UJ was back!!!

lololol

BTW I was wrong about lack of ruby hostelries in Gran Canaria -quite a few and hash shops as well:cig: :ph34r:

It was a bitch stuck in that sandstorm though -first night we had to sleep on the airport floor -it looked like a refugee camp. had a suite in the AC Marriott the next two nights 

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34 minutes ago, Fulham Broadway said:

BTW I was wrong about lack of ruby hostelries in Gran Canaria -quite a few and hash shops as well:cig: :ph34r:

It was a bitch stuck in that sandstorm though -first night we had to sleep on the airport floor -it looked like a refugee camp. had a suite in the AC Marriott the next two nights 

yep, I knew there were curry takeaways there

hash dens I stay away from!

but those would be a good place to look for UJ

:cig:

lolol

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59 minutes ago, Vesper said:

yep, I knew there were curry takeaways there

hash dens I stay away from!

but those would be a good place to look for UJ

:cig:

lolol

They were proper clean shops. Polished floors, smart staff and a complete array of jars with every variety...quite surprised, but expensive...

Wouldn't know what UJ looks like. I asked if he was black because met some Manc who said there was an ex DJ in the South of the Island into Northern Soul who was a black Yank but I never checked it out....:offtopic:

I love Fat Frank...

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