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Unionjack

Krzysztof Piatek

Started by Unionjack,

224 posts in this topic
On 1/30/2019 at 9:04 AM, Jason said:

Seriously, are people gonna post 'we should have signed Piatek' every time he scores? It's perfectly understandable why the club didn't go for Piatek. As well as Piatek has done this season, it's still his first in Europe's top 5 leagues. For all we know, he could be a one season wonder. Remember Belotti? He scored 26 league goals in 2016/17 but then fell away with just 10 goals in 2017/18 and now just 7 in 2018/19. After seeing the likes of Morata, Batshuayi failed in recent seasons, we absolutely couldn't fail with the striker position and it's understandable why we went for Higuain instead, even if it's at best a short term solution. If Piatek does end up doing well at Milan, then fair play to him and if we want to get him then, it's more than possible given Milan's situation with Financial Fair Play. If not, there are still options elsewhere with Icardi or Werner. 

Where I do think Piatek would be a good buy for us  OK yes it's a gamble buying him.

OK Say we did.

Is it a bigger gamble buying a player thats currently on very good form 'with lots of potential'  than to play a kid that has no form 'with potential'

Or which makes the more sense.

To keep an unproven kid who may or may not turn out OK or sell him for £40mill and buy a player with that money thats more complete?

These are questions I ask myself that I really dont know what the best option would be mate.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know that I would be playing CHO more in our current position tho

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52 minutes ago, the wes said:

Chelsea could make a January move for AC Milan striker Krzysztof Piatek if their transfer ban is overturned

https://sempremilan.com/report-e35m-ac-milan-star-a-possible-target-for-chelsea

If true we are late one year. 

But still Milan is very low now. Should not be a problem to take best players from them. We sent Van Ginkel, Bakayoko, Pasalic on loan there over the years which shows you where is Milan in European football. This season I think they won't finish top6 in Seria A. 

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8 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

If true we are late one year. 

But still Milan is very low now. Should not be a problem to take best players from them. We sent Van Ginkel, Bakayoko, Pasalic on loan there over the years which shows you where is Milan in European football. This season I think they won't finish top6 in Seria A. 

I think we are going hear a lot of rumours for the January transfer window if we get this transfer ban lifted 

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6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Now that Tammy is getting game time, was it a wise move from the board not to get Piatek? 

No, not at that time. It's not like they are fortune tellers so whatever is happening now is irrelevant to decisions made then.

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3 minutes ago, manpe said:

No, not at that time. 

Yes but the problem always remains. 

We want youth, but we block their chances when we buy a new player. 

And this one thing I think my good friend @Vesper don't factor in to the equation in the analysis of buying players. New players that we buy can they potential block the rise of a youth? 

How do you balance that? 

Now that we have Tomori, Mount and Tammy we can buy more smart to complement these positions. That was something that wasn't factor in before. 

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2 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Yes but the problem always remains. 

We want youth, but we block their chances when we buy a new player. 

And this one thing I think my good friend @Vesper don't factor in to the equation in the analysis of buying players. 

New players that we buy can they potential block the rise of a youth? 

How do you balance that? 

When you have no real quality youngsters coming up in that position, then you buy instant quality given the chance. Let's be honest, Tammy was more or less considered just another part of the loan army at that time, he wasn't put in the same hype brackets as CHO or RLC and everybody wanted an upgrade to striker position. There was little to no talk of blocking Tammy's path. Had we not got banned and Lampard as head coach as a result, he probably wouldn't even be here. We were pretty much forced to keep him and luckily it's paying off at the moment, he is shutting up many doubters (including me). The real indicator will be if he will be able to do it over long periods of time, purple patches come and go so let's not also get ahead of ourselves.

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5 minutes ago, manpe said:

When you have no real quality youngsters coming up in that position, then you buy instant quality given the chance. Let's be honest, Tammy was more or less considered just another part of the loan army at that time, he wasn't put in the same hype brackets as CHO or RLC and everybody wanted an upgrade to striker position. There was little to no talk of blocking Tammy's path. Had we not got banned and Lampard as head coach as a result, he probably wouldn't even be here. We were pretty much forced to keep him and luckily it's paying off at the moment, he is shutting up many doubters (including me). The real indicator will be if he will be able to do it over long periods of time, purple patches come and go so let's not also get ahead of ourselves.

But back to the point that is my argument. 

How we know if any of the youth are good if not giving chances?

We buy a new player and we are forced to play them because of what we spend. 

When there's a plan for youth, you need to factor in that. You need to give space and time to implement youth. 

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15 minutes ago, manpe said:

When you have no real quality youngsters coming up in that position, then you buy instant quality given the chance. Let's be honest, Tammy was more or less considered just another part of the loan army at that time, he wasn't put in the same hype brackets as CHO or RLC and everybody wanted an upgrade to striker position. There was little to no talk of blocking Tammy's path. Had we not got banned and Lampard as head coach as a result, he probably wouldn't even be here. We were pretty much forced to keep him and luckily it's paying off at the moment, he is shutting up many doubters (including me). The real indicator will be if he will be able to do it over long periods of time, purple patches come and go so let's not also get ahead of ourselves.

Tbh I don't really buy this notion that we were forced to play youth, even with the ban and Hazard going we had a deep enough squad that could have kept them away.

We didn't have to let Zappacosta leave to make way for James, likewise Luiz/Fik, we could have just kept Drinkwater as 4th choice instead of handing that role to Gilmour and we could have took up the option for an extra year for Higuain instead of recalling Tammy.

The only one who would probably have got a default place regardless is Mount (and even then there was the option to rotate Ross and Kova instead of playing him) the others we could have easily picked more experienced options instead.

Ban or no ban this youth movement has been very much by choice.

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5 minutes ago, Fernando said:

But back to the point that is my argument. 

How we know if any of the youth are good if not giving chances? 

The coaches should know, and if they can't work it out without seeing them play for the Chelsea first team they should be sacked on the spot.

For example, i don't need to see James in the first team to know he's the real deal just like I didn't need to see Bamford there to realize he wasn't.

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2 hours ago, Fernando said:

Yes but the problem always remains. 

We want youth, but we block their chances when we buy a new player. 

And this one thing I think my good friend @Vesper don't factor in to the equation in the analysis of buying players. New players that we buy can they potential block the rise of a youth? 

How do you balance that? 

Now that we have Tomori, Mount and Tammy we can buy more smart to complement these positions. That was something that wasn't factor in before. 

I am much less stressed atm in terms of CF due to the phenomenal rise of Tammy so far this year. My number one target, Iñaki Williams, was basically taken off the board when he renewed for NINE years with Athletic Bilbao, with a crazy high €135m release clause.

The last 10, 12 games I have seen Krzysztof Piątek play, he has scored one goal from open play, and just now a pen. Whilst buying him for £31m in January, instead of pissing away £15m on a 6 month loan (fee plus salary) for the wretched Higs would have been great business relatively speaking, I doubt that AC Milan will sell him for less than £60m or so, unless he completely collapses, at which point, why buy him for anything over that £30m or so anyway. 

IF Tammy puts in a great 25, 30 goal season, then I see no reason to go out and buy another striker UNLESS we sell Bats. Giroud is gone for sure this coming summer., so maybe we can buy a cheaper (far cheaper than say my top target, Moussa Dembele) 3rd option, IF we want to roll with 3 strikers, which Lamps seems to favour. Asking someone to come in as a 3rd option (IF Bats is not sold) is a tough pull, as most any decent striker will not want to ride the bench most of the time (ie. look at Giroud bitching now.) We probably would go for either a super young one (my preferred choice) or an older one, maybe a Giroud type of bigger target type for a change up. Sandro Wagner, maybe, IF he accepts a strictly backup role, but he also will probably not want to give up his massive Chinese salary. IF we also sell Bats, then Dembele would be my first choice to buy, as he flourishes in a front 2 set-up, and that gives us options galore to pair him with Tammy.

I am very conscious of not wanting to block youth, which is why I see absolutely zero need to buy another AMF, even if we sell Barkley. The other reason for no AMF buy for me is that there really is only one who will be available who remotely interest me, Kai Havertz, and he will cost £100m more than likely, so is a no go.  AMF (at least available ones) is also one of the weaker positions out there in terms of quantity players who are actually available, with the only other 2 I truly rate for a buy (IF we had to actually go and get one) are also going to be very expensive:  Donny van de Beek (Ajax) and Nicolò Zaniolo (Roma) There is one final AMF option, who would cost by far the least of all I listed, Dani Olmo, a 21yo Spaniard (Barca Academy) from Dinamo Zagreb, who has had an explosive start to the year, with 4 goals and 4 assists in less than 5 full games worth of minutes, all but 1 and 1 of those coming in the Champions League, and in his one league game he also had a goal and an assist.

I do NOT want to block any of our youth that are good enough. If Reece James comes good at RB, I see no need to go and try and prise away a Kimmich type. I advocate selling Azpi whilst we can still get a decent return and buying Timothy Castagne, a 23yo Belgian RB from Atalanta who would be a great backup and will not cost an arm and a leg.

LB is not quite the same, with me advocating selling Alonso, and going for someone of equal or better quality to Emerson, say Alex Telles  (next summer is the last summer I can recco buying him due to his age, he will be the same age as I am (27) in less than 3 months) or Jose Gaya or Alejandro Grimaldo (Chillwell will cost too much I fear, I see Leicester demanding at least £70m, maybe more.)

For CB, unless we sell AC (and we simply MUST sell Zouma next summer, he is never going to be good enough) I have only one want, and it is now the most important need on the team, A TRULY WC CB. (with winger a close second, unless we also lose CHO, then it is panic mode there, even worse than CB.) I have posted my choices multiple times (Romagnoli, Konate, Skriniar, Giminez, Marquinhos, and maybe Dias) Koulibally is now too old to buy next summer (he turns 29yo in June). We simply must have 4 quality CB's if we are serious about being a top 10 in the world team, and other than Rudiger (who is top 20 or so but not top 10) we do not have that KILLER one now. Tomori may get there, but do we really want to roll with only him, Rudiger and AC? My answer is NO. IF one of those 3 goes down, we then have NO quality backup/rotational CB's. I do not (and here I am probably falling into your 'blocking youth' paradigm) rate Ampadu as a CB at the moment. He is getting zero minutes at RB Leipzig (a bad loan destination which I called as soon as I saw it) and I see his future in MF anyway. I think of all the positions, my predictive track record for all teams in terms of their CB's is rather good. I alone or close to alone (from what I have seen) predicted the nightmare for Shitty they now face, and that was PRE Laporte injury. Losing him for 6 or 8 months really is going to fuck them hard. I said the same for Arse and Manure as well, and well... Luiz, roflmaoooooo. I said Barca will have issues as well, due to their swing and a big miss on De Ligt and tha is being born out now too (Umiti is injured yet again, leaving a 19yo Jean-Clair Todibo as their only backup). Victimpool has been saved by the elevation to truly WC by Matip (not exactly out of nowhere, but still Klopp has turned him into a monster, beyond what I thought possible, Gomez's injury was a strange type of godsend for the Bindippers, as it truly unleashed Matip to go full-blown star.)

The last position of need (and potentially massive need IF we lose CHO) is winger. Even if we keep Pedro for one last year, we still need a massive upgrade for next year.  Willian should have been gone in summer 2018, and like fuck if that twat is still here in 2021 bumbling around the pitch at 32 years of age (Pedro will be 33.) This is not the bloody Serie A old folks home. THAT will drive me crazier than a rat in a tin shithouse!! 

Winger is not Mount's natural position, and if we do lose CHO, that means we are down to Pulisic and a 33yo Pedro. There are no youth to block, zero in the pipeline who are remotely ready to go. I REALLY want Sancho, do not care if we have to dump out £120m, £130m to do it. We should have, if we clear the books, around half a billion quid in the bank. ZERO excuse to not go and grab a WC CB (or even two if we sell AC) and then a WC winger, and TWO (Chiesa or Oyarzabal or Richarlison or, IF a fair price, Zaha, AND Zaha can play CF too, so that would solve a need there) for sure IF we also lose CHO.

I think that summary both reflects reality and is respectful of not blocking youth paths.

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3 hours ago, Fernando said:

Now that Tammy is getting game time, was it a wise move from the board not to get Piatek? 

Look at it from a pure monetary standpoint. For £16m (and a shit tonne lower salary overall in the long term) more than Higs we could have outright owned Piatek. THAT would have let us sell Bats, which would have covered the cost of Piatek basically completely.

Giroud is basically shit other than as a change-up now, and Tammy, the way he is playing would have made Piatek the backup (or pair them is a front two). IF we were unhappy with Piatek, sell him on (more than likely for a BIG profit) I would have so little issues with Tammy and Piatek as our two strikers for years to come. Odds are high they both would get a shedload of playing time, due to the massive amount of games we play and also (dog forbid) an injury to one or the other.

So, all in all, I think we cocked-it up badly, from pretty much every angle. It is always good to buy expensive players (youngish ones at that) for a low price, as you can sell them on for a profit.

Think of it as the ANTI-DRINKWATER ET.AL. model. IF Willian walks on a free,and if we simply cannot sell Drinkwater and even have a hard time loaning him out again, just those two cunts will have cost us well over £125m in lost potential revenue/pissed away fees/salary combined. THAT is seriously fucked up fiduciary malfeasance. Add in the combined loss of potential sale rev on Cuntois and Eden (due to non timely sales/HORRID contractual management) of at least  £90-100m combined (and that can skyrocket to well over £125m plus IF Eden's add-on targets are not met) and you are talking around a QUARTER OF A BILLION QUID in less monies we have from pure cock-ups with just those four players. That is NOT even counting the Higs vis-a-vis Piatek fiscal part.

Add that in plus the £30m or less Alisson would have cost in 2017 versus the £71m a 2018 Kepa cost and you are now WELL over £300m shit away.

Bad fiduciary management adds up FAST.

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Why couldnt we have both Tammy and Piatek? Giroud is essentially spent, and Bats isnt exactly super duper so far. So having 2 young and good strikers is not only crucial but absolutely needed. You cant rely on just 1 striker. So no I still believe the board once again fucked up here. An over the hill slow and fat Higs for immense amounts in the tougest League.......or an upcoming good striker for peanuts in todays market? Lunacy is all I say. And dont say Sarii wanted him so the board sanktioned it, there must be a time when a Club has to say no, for the good of the Club, cuz it makes sense. Higs didnt do shit for us other than eat wages.

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33 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Why couldnt we have both Tammy and Piatek? Giroud is essentially spent, and Bats isnt exactly super duper so far. So having 2 young and good strikers is not only crucial but absolutely needed. You cant rely on just 1 striker. So no I still believe the board once again fucked up here. An over the hill slow and fat Higs for immense amounts in the tougest League.......or an upcoming good striker for peanuts in todays market? Lunacy is all I say. And dont say Sarii wanted him so the board sanktioned it, there must be a time when a Club has to say no, for the good of the Club, cuz it makes sense. Higs didnt do shit for us other than eat wages.

I wish I could make a potential £300m (and there are more on top of that in just the past 3 years) series of errors and keep my placement.

Marina and the board must be a witches under charm protection.

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38 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Why couldnt we have both Tammy and Piatek? Giroud is essentially spent, and Bats isnt exactly super duper so far. So having 2 young and good strikers is not only crucial but absolutely needed. You cant rely on just 1 striker. So no I still believe the board once again fucked up here. An over the hill slow and fat Higs for immense amounts in the tougest League.......or an upcoming good striker for peanuts in todays market? Lunacy is all I say. And dont say Sarii wanted him so the board sanktioned it, there must be a time when a Club has to say no, for the good of the Club, cuz it makes sense. Higs didnt do shit for us other than eat wages.

Because one of them would be the main striker and the other one would always moan because he does not play and that makes not much sense. One of them would leave after one or two seasons anyway. Young players want to play every match. Mou fucked the KDB situation up. He did not rate him enough and he had too many other midfielders to choose. KDB got frustrated and left the club.

If we have 60 games, the main striker will start at least 40 of them, maybe 45 matches. 20 to 25 matches for the second striker would be not good enough because Piatek plays 40 matches in Serie A as a main striker.

Abraham and Batsman is enough.

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1 hour ago, Vesper said:

My number one target, Iñaki Williams, was basically taken off the board when he renewed for NINE years with Athletic Bilbao, with a crazy high €135m release clause.

Why you rate him so much? He averages one goal in five games in La Liga. Last season was his first 10+ goals season. 

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39 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Why you rate him so much? He averages one goal in five games in La Liga. Last season was his first 10+ goals season. 

They finally played him at CF and he blew up. He has insane pace and is also strong and decent at holdup play. He would be a terror paired with Tammy or used as a winger. I have watched him for years and the second half of last season he came good to the level I expected.

That said, he is so not worth 135m euros. £70m or so max.

He is off the board now anyway. He is a Basque born African and hates Real Madrid. Do not see Barca putting up that type of cash (135m) either. Maybe PSG if they lose Neymar, but I doubt it.

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14 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Because one of them would be the main striker and the other one would always moan because he does not play and that makes not much sense. One of them would leave after one or two seasons anyway. Young players want to play every match. Mou fucked the KDB situation up. He did not rate him enough and he had too many other midfielders to choose. KDB got frustrated and left the club.

If we have 60 games, the main striker will start at least 40 of them, maybe 45 matches. 20 to 25 matches for the second striker would be not good enough because Piatek plays 40 matches in Serie A as a main striker.

Abraham and Batsman is enough.

I agree with KDB but disagree with the striker issues. Of course we can have 2 good strikers on our books at the same time. How does other Clubs do it, how did we do it in all those years? Of course we can shuffle 2 strikers at the same time come'on now mate. In no way or shape or form is Tammy and Bats enough, not when one of them is very average. If Tammy gets injured we are fuked up front.

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Just now, Atomiswave said:

I agree with KDB but disagree with the striker issues. Of course we can have 2 good strikers on our books at the same time. How does other Clubs do it, how did we do it in all those years? Of course we can shuffle 2 strikers at the same time come'on now mate.

What other clubs are you talking about? City? PSG? Apart from those two clubs, I don´t see that many more teams that have two good strikers in their team.Real Madrid used to have Morata and Benzema. Morata never played and he left. Benzema was their main striker for years. Just like Suarez was the main striker for some years for Barca. Before Suarez, David Villa was their main striker and they did not have a top class BU for Villa either.

How did we do it in recent years? During Ancelotti´s time when I became a Chelsea fan, Chelsea had only Drogba as our main striker. Sometimes Anelka played his position, but his main position was RW. We also had Kalou who played there, but he was never considered a top class striker. Then Torres came and he did play some games because Drogba got older and Torres favouritism, but Torres was not any good, Drogba left anayway after the win in Munich.

I don´t remember having two top class strikers during my time as a Chelsea fan. A top class striker  wants to start out of 60 matches, 45 from the beginning. I don´t see that happening at Chelsea when we would have Tammy and Piatek. Giving Abraham only 15 starts from the beginning agains low level teams etc. would be a disgrace. Vice versa for Piatek. Perfect would be Tammy first choice and Batsman second choice, but I think Batsman will  want lo leave us next season because of lack of game time. Second strikers usually leave after not being main striker for two seasons or more.

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