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Jason

17. Mateo Kovacic

Started by Jason,

960 posts in this topic

Definitely the key to build the midfield is him. 

We all thought it would be Kante, Jorginho but what a surprised it has been him. 

Now we need to figure if we are going to sell Kante or Jorginho. I do hope we don't make the same mistake like we did with Willian where we could have sold and now he is leaving for free. If PSG still want Kante, lets see if we can get some money from them. Jorgi I'm sure Sarri would still love to have him at Juve so there's a market. 

It's going to be tough but let' see what Lampard and company do with the duo of Kante/Jorginho. 

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On 4/6/2020 at 10:23 PM, Fernando said:

Definitely the key to build the midfield is him. 

We all thought it would be Kante, Jorginho but what a surprised it has been him. 

Now we need to figure if we are going to sell Kante or Jorginho. I do hope we don't make the same mistake like we did with Willian where we could have sold and now he is leaving for free. If PSG still want Kante, lets see if we can get some money from them. Jorgi I'm sure Sarri would still love to have him at Juve so there's a market. 

It's going to be tough but let' see what Lampard and company do with the duo of Kante/Jorginho. 

I honestly not sure how to build around kova. You can't build team based on player who doesn't really score or create.

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7 hours ago, communicate said:

I honestly not sure how to build around kova. You can't build team based on player who doesn't really score or create.

This should put Kante being sold talk to bed.

Yes, we have balance problem in our midfield.

We usually play 4-3-3 and only Jorginho and now Gilmour can play deeper role.

And if we also play Kante and Kovacic we lack offensively.

So when everyone is fit we play:

             Mount        Kante

                    Jorginho

Basically our best player this season is on the bench.

I assume RLC or ZIyech will take place from Mount but we still have a problem.

What is the solution? Maybe moving to 4-2-3-1 with Kovacic-Kante playing behind and dropping Jorginho? 

Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic midfield would work only when you have front three like Liverpool or PSG and we are far away from that. We would need Werner and Sancho.

 

 

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1 minute ago, NikkiCFC said:

This should put Kante being sold talk to bed.

Yes, we have balance problem in our midfield.

We usually play 4-3-3 and only Jorginho and now Gilmour can play deeper role.

And if we also play Kante and Kovacic we lack offensively.

So when everyone is fit we play:

             Mount        Kante

                    Jorginho

Basically our best player this season is on the bench.

I assume RLC or ZIyech will take place from Mount but we still have a problem.

What is the solution? Maybe moving to 4-2-3-1 with Kovacic-Kante playing behind and dropping Jorginho? 

Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic midfield would work only when you have front three like Liverpool or PSG and we are far away from that. We would need Werner and Sancho.

If the Spurs, Liverpool and Everton games haven't shown that Kante shouldn't be starting in this set up and we're a lot more fluent without him then hopefully the board go over his head with the decision.

 I'm in the minority that feels Frank has done a fine job so far all things considered but he needs to be ruthless with Kante, knowing when a players time is up (especially one with an untouchable esque rep) is the difference between a good manager and a great one.

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Again, if Kante is contempt with having a more tactical role, then by all means keep him. 
 

He should only start against teams that have both a better midfield and attack than us. 
 

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16 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If the Spurs, Liverpool and Everton games haven't shown that Kante shouldn't be starting in this set up and we're a lot more fluent without him then hopefully the board go over his head with the decision.

 I'm in the minority that feels Frank has done a fine job so far all things considered but he needs to be ruthless with Kante, knowing when a players time is up (especially one with an untouchable esque rep) is the difference between a good manager and a great one.

True but still Kante in different set up would be world class. Imagine Real (or other club) take him now and in the next 5 years he give them what Makelele gave us when we bought him from them. He was similar age.

I would sell Kante for a lot of money but reality is he is staying and having him on the bench would be such a luxury for us.

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12 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

True but still Kante in different set up would be world class. Imagine Real (or other club) take him now and in the next 5 years he give them what Makelele gave us when we bought him from them. He was similar age.

I would sell Kante for a lot of money but reality is he is staying and having him on the bench would be such a luxury for us.

I'm not really sure the comparisons with Maka are that apt tbh, Maka was a sitter with an underated passing range, he was always going to have a relatively long shelf life whereas Kante's main attribute is his energy, his profile of player rarely last (at the highest level) far into their 30's if atall. Similar comparisons would be Cole and Terry, both the same age but Ash relied on speed getting up and down which led to a significant drop after the double season while JT with his reading of the game and never needing speed was still a key player 5 years on.

I think if you put Maka and Kante's career trajectory's side by side (after Kante is retired) i think you will see a similar pattern for the twilight years.

Fernando, Supermonkey92 and Stats like this

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20 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

True but still Kante in different set up would be world class. Imagine Real (or other club) take him now and in the next 5 years he give them what Makelele gave us when we bought him from them. He was similar age.

Here's the thing though, how many of the current top sides actually set up in a pragmatic manner? We saw the best of Kante when Ranieri had Leicester set up as counter-attacking side and when Conte did something similar right here. Yet in a more progressive playing style, there doesn't seem to be a suitable position for Kante and he has looked a little lost and that's under 2 managers now - Sarri and Lampard. 

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Here's the thing though, how many of the current top sides actually set up in a pragmatic manner? We saw the best of Kante when Ranieri had Leicester set up as counter-attacking side and when Conte did something similar right here. Yet in a more progressive playing style, there doesn't seem to be a suitable position for Kante and he has looked a little lost and that's under 2 managers now - Sarri and Lampard. 

Then we need to sell him and for that money we can buy someone who suits us. Having him on the bench would be like I said luxury. 

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

 I'm in the minority that feels Frank has done a fine job so far all things considered but he needs to be ruthless with Kante, knowing when a players time is up (especially one with an untouchable esque rep) is the difference between a good manager and a great one.

Exactly. Manager like Sir Alex Ferguson wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger on a player he considers surplus, no matter who the player is or what he has achieved in the past.

Selling Kante does sound absolutely ridiculous as he's probably our best player but at the same time it might just be the right thing to do. In case we do sell him, we must make sure he doesn't end up at PL rival

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6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

This should put Kante being sold talk to bed.

Yes, we have balance problem in our midfield.

We usually play 4-3-3 and only Jorginho and now Gilmour can play deeper role.

And if we also play Kante and Kovacic we lack offensively.

So when everyone is fit we play:

             Mount        Kante

                    Jorginho

Basically our best player this season is on the bench.

I assume RLC or ZIyech will take place from Mount but we still have a problem.

What is the solution? Maybe moving to 4-2-3-1 with Kovacic-Kante playing behind and dropping Jorginho? 

Jorginho-Kante-Kovacic midfield would work only when you have front three like Liverpool or PSG and we are far away from that. We would need Werner and Sancho.

 

 

Like you said 433 and 4231 it doesn't really matter to be honest. You can take it as big game vs easier game. For me we just need a good holder in midfield, that is it. 

Ziyech will probably primarily play as right winger. He will play primary creator and Mount as SS.

Puli/cho - Mount - Ziyech

Kova - Kante

In the end, what will happen to us next season will depend more on the growth of Cho, puli, Mount, Tammy. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tomo said:

If the Spurs, Liverpool and Everton games haven't shown that Kante shouldn't be starting in this set up and we're a lot more fluent without him then hopefully the board go over his head with the decision.

 I'm in the minority that feels Frank has done a fine job so far all things considered but he needs to be ruthless with Kante, knowing when a players time is up (especially one with an untouchable esque rep) is the difference between a good manager and a great one.

Its not just the midfield. Our forwards have been shit in creativity this year. Willian and Pedro are past it, Puli and Odoi had injuries, Tammy cant create. 

If we had at least two that can create on regular basis, that would help with lack of creativity from midfield and we could easily play any 3 of Kante, Jorgi, Kova, Mount. Id allow Jorginho to leave and bring DM aswell.

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15 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Then we need to sell him and for that money we can buy someone who suits us. Having him on the bench would be like I said luxury. 

I see Kante as an option, as player for squad depth, as someone who can come in and do a job in specific games or situations but I don't want to see Lampard shoehorn him into the XI just because of who he is.

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10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I see Kante as an option, as player for squad depth, as someone who can come in and do a job in specific games or situations but I don't want to see Lampard shoehorn him into the XI just because of who he is.

You don’t utilize your top earner as squad option usually tho. He is either your first starter or need to be sold. The thing is with Corona he won’t fetch the 100m he should, so maybe wait one year but then his time should be up

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1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

You don’t utilize your top earner as squad option usually tho. He is either your first starter or need to be sold. The thing is with Corona he won’t fetch the 100m he should, so maybe wait one year but then his time should be up

Big problem with waiting is that if you sell him in summer 2021, he is 30yo,  turns 31 around midway through the season.

Once players hit 30, 31, their market value drops like crazy, unless you are talking CR7 or Messi (and even they have dropped, just several years later)

Messi is unsaleable, no one is going to pick up his £74m per year (pre tax and it will go up again this coming season, although he is taking a HUGE pay cut due to COVID-19 this year, but that is not going to last forever) in just salary/bonuses.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/christinasettimi/2019/06/18/the-worlds-highest-paid-soccer-players-2019-messi-ronaldo-and-neymar-dominate-the-sporting-world/#5065b77ab55e

For the second year in a row, Messi takes the top spot among the World’s Highest-Paid Soccer Players, with earnings of $127 million. Thanks to the contract extension he signed in November 2017 that commits him to Camp Nou through June 2021, he hauled in $92 million (£74m) in salary and bonuses before taxes, a 9.5% bump over what he made on the pitch last year.

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If the season ends he is undoubtedly our player of the year for me. Not even a debate. Everyone was so sceptical of signing him but he has been the standout player for us this season and his consistency is something else. Even more so compared to the flashes we would see last year followed by weeks of poor performances, which is even more frightening when you look at his performances this season.

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20 hours ago, Tomo said:

If the Spurs, Liverpool and Everton games haven't shown that Kante shouldn't be starting in this set up and we're a lot more fluent without him then hopefully the board go over his head with the decision.

 

We can't use that game as example since we started Pedro, willian and Giroud. The question come when we play with puli Tammy cho 

Can we still play

kova - Mount

Gilmour/Jorgi and still look good defensively

 

 

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