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Special Juan

Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

Started by Special Juan,

5,542 posts in this topic
4 hours ago, Yeboii said:

The overreaction in here....

We haven't won a game at Old Trafford since 2013, and it has happened under every manager that we have been unable to find an elusive second goal even when deserving it.

We are in the semis in the EL. Are 4th in the league and have played some wonderful football at times this season. We also lost a final to City in penalties! We also had a really difficult journey there, the most difficult road to a final we have had for a while.

We have him giving games to Christensen, who has not really taken his chances. He has also been developing CHO and RLC very well in a short while. Ruben is becoming a very important player for us. Something Mourinho or Conte couldn't do. All this while Hazard is probably having his best season in a Chelsea shirt if we look at goal and assist input. He is also leading the league in many key stats for a winger.

He is trying to get this team to play in a way we have been calling out for since we won the CL in 2012... All while not having the players needed for it at all, except for a few players who are very hit and miss (like Luiz and Pedro).

Give the man a chance. I remember this forum talking in the same way about Conte, and now I think many miss him and blame the board for his departure. Learn to have patience in the progress, like Liverpool fans had with Klopp.

Since november, we play like crap. If it wasnt for that 10 game unbeaten run, we would be 8th aswell. 

I mean we look absolutely toothless in attack. Zero creativity or dynamic. Not to mention our defence, anyone can pop one as soon as they press us.

Next season everyone will know our plan and how to stop Jorginho, so there wont be a surprise 10 game winning run in the start. Eden might not be here. Ban might prevent us signing anyone. Sarri has done zero player development aside from RLC anf CHO who are young and naturaly progressing with play time. Azpi, Willian, any striker, Alonso, Kovacic, Jorginho, Pedro have all underpeformed. 

As for EL, we didnt play a single strong team. Lets see how we do vs Frankfurt now. As for reaching cup final, we won fa cup last year, so thats hardly something Sarri can brag about.

I dont see how are we going to be better next season.

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2 hours ago, communicate said:

This type of fans infuriate me. I was angry with Sarri when CHO got injured because he started to play CHO too often. 

But CHO didn't get injured because he was being played too much, did he? It was just an unfortunate one when he tried to control a loose goal kick.

2 hours ago, communicate said:

The guy is 18,this is his first season in full flight football. But clearly there is pressure from the fans and the club to play him

Sure, there was pressure to play CHO but Sarri didn't have the balls to stick his guns, did he? He made his point to not play him often but ultimately did because of fans' protests and he got scared of losing his job!

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

But CHO didn't get injured because he was being played too much, did he? It was just an unfortunate one when he tried to control a loose goal kick.

Sure, there was pressure to play CHO but Sarri didn't have the balls to stick his guns, did he? He made his point to not play him often but ultimately did because of fans' protests and he got scared of losing his job!

Not just from fans but from the club. I thought Sarri handled CHO perfectly except the last few games where I thought he should have not started all of them. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

 Sarri has done zero player development aside from RLC anf CHO who are young and naturaly progressing with play time. Azpi, Willian, any striker, Alonso, Kovacic, Jorginho, Pedro have all underpeformed. 

 

I have no idea how do you improve on 30+ player. I don't see pep making David silva or Fernandinho better. But he certainly make sterling better. 

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8 hours ago, Jason said:

But CHO didn't get injured because he was being played too much, did he? It was just an unfortunate one when he tried to control a loose goal kick.

Sure, there was pressure to play CHO but Sarri didn't have the balls to stick his guns, did he? He made his point to not play him often but ultimately did because of fans' protests and he got scared of losing his job!

If he was surr

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49 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If he was surrendering to fans, then why isn't Kante at DM?

I think he started playing league games because he improved his discipline off the ball (which is important when the other winger is Hazard).

Because he could argue that Kante is scoring goals and providing assists in a more advanced midfield role.

CHO has done well when given playing time this season, Europa League or not, but had to wait till the Bayern interest, fans/media pressure, sack threats to force Sarri's hands. And let's not forget that Sarri hardly helped himself in this situation either. In November, he said CHO isn't ready but less than two months later in January after Bayern made their interest known, Sarri suddenly said CHO is ready and that he considers to be on the same level as Pedro/Willian. CHO then got some consistent game time in January but once the transfer window closed, he didn't get that again until Sarri gave in on the pressure and sack threats in March/April.

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17 hours ago, Tomo said:

It isn't even the worst in the last four years, let alone since Roman took over

 

To me it is....the footy we play is the most boring, spineless I have seen. We consistently look clueless in all aspect.

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

If he was surrendering to fans, then why isn't Kante at DM?

I think he started playing league games because he improved his discipline off the ball (which is important when the other winger is Hazard).

I agree, and overall, the team just looked much sharper with CHO in versus Wilian or Pedro at RW, he is a constant threat at RW, especially to cross the ball. Is he at a great level yet? NO, but playing more gets him closer. I hope he is fine after his injury. An Achilles blow-out is not a joke. It is serious and can affect explosiveness.

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31 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

To me it is....the footy we play is the most boring, spineless I have seen. We consistently look clueless in all aspect.

Im sorry but nothing compares to 15/16 especially the Mou half of it. We were fighting relegation for half of it and never got above 9th.

This season is a Pep Barca esque season by comparison.

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1 hour ago, communicate said:

I have no idea how do you improve on 30+ player. I don't see pep making David silva or Fernandinho better. But he certainly make sterling better. 

He made Fernandinho twice the player mate.

Conte also made Luiz play great in title winning season. 

Sarri on the other hand; I dont see a single player aside of CHO and Ruben that would improve as a player. 

Kovacic is the most clear example. He should flourish with regular play time and under attacking manager, but he is below average.

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If the ban sticks, there's no point in sacking Sarri. Chels aren't even candidates for the title or CL. No manager can change that so keep Sarri (and Hazard) if that's the case.

If the ban does not stick, I'd like a different manager. I don't trust Sarri's eye for talent. If Chels had a proper technical director who would have the most say in player purchase and sales, then I wouldn't mind another season of Sarri at all. For example, Jorginho can never be the key man right in the centre of the pitch in a PL side with (future) title aspirations. The whole Alonso thing, Kovacic, Higuain... Chels don't want to be Napoli. Napoli didn't win shit. You need to turn it up at Chels.

Whatever happens to Sarri, this squad is not the business. A confusing defence, a soft midfield and a pathetic front line. Hazard only with a year left on his contract. Same with Odoi. Two average strikers over 30. Chels still can't sign a proper fullback...

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46 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Im sorry but nothing compares to 15/16 especially the Mou half of it. We were fighting relegation for half of it and never got above 9th.

This season is a Pep Barca esque season by comparison.

At least Mou was a Winner, just won the title and Mou somehow fucked it up with his man management and not getting help by the board to build on that success......that was never our level but yet some use it as a benchmark somehow ( not talking about you per say ). This season we cant defend, we cant attack, look clueless, spineless, horrible tactics that get repeated no matter what, boring possession footy with no end product at all, same formation, same like for like subs, same stubbornness....I mean I could go on and on. Conte came and schooled epl with his way of setting up.....he was a winner, a motivator but very emotional, he expected quality backing and got none, rest is history. My point is he understood Chelsea, Sarri dont. Make no mistake, a quality manager will get you far, can build a Foundation, a standard. Sarri just doesnt cut it, he has shown nothing at all to warrant another season. If you like endless possession footy then im sure he will rock your world.....I want the fast direct Chelsea, at least if he was willing to say hey my footy isnt working, let us mix it up and be more flexable until I have my kind of player, then sure I would back him. But he aint and never will. Its his crappy way or go bust, nothing in between. Proper unfit for this Club of ours.

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49 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

He made Fernandinho twice the player mate.

Conte also made Luiz play great in title winning season. 

Sarri on the other hand; I dont see a single player aside of CHO and Ruben that would improve as a player. 

Kovacic is the most clear example. He should flourish with regular play time and under attacking manager, but he is below average.

I don't know how Pep improve Fernandinho. He started to play that discipline role under Pellegrini. 

Luiz ? Luiz was fantastic when we won the league playing in back 5. That is the key. It has nothing to do with improvement. He has always been error prone. You just have more cover with back 5.

Sarri has done wonder with Cho especially defensively. Still not great but much2 better. The same with rlc, tactically much improved. 

Honestly with Kovacic, I don't know. He has tons of talent but I think he is more suited to deeper role than in attacking cm role. 

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2 hours ago, communicate said:

I don't know how Pep improve Fernandinho. He started to play that discipline role under Pellegrini. 

Luiz ? Luiz was fantastic when we won the league playing in back 5. That is the key. It has nothing to do with improvement. He has always been error prone. You just have more cover with back 5.

Sarri has done wonder with Cho especially defensively. Still not great but much2 better. The same with rlc, tactically much improved. 

Honestly with Kovacic, I don't know. He has tons of talent but I think he is more suited to deeper role than in attacking cm role. 

At the end of the day mate, Conte did more in the tactical sense, positioning, motivation, hunger and desire than Sarri ever will at our Club. Can you imagine if we actually backed him with his players? He understood what Chels was about, thats why he instantly bonded with the fans and we loved his passion, and the players ate all that up and gave their all.

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10 hours ago, Tomo said:

If he was surrendering to fans, then why isn't Kante at DM?

I think he started playing league games because he improved his discipline off the ball (which is important when the other winger is Hazard).

Exactly.

Do people really think a stubborn manager bowed to fan pressure with CHO or RLC even? I really dont think so. I look at our 2-0 v City with Willian and Pedro and at the time I doubt CHO would of been as effective in the defensive phase as he was v Liverpool for instance.

And as you said Kante would be DM (although hes never played as a sitter in a 3 man MF in the PL except first 4 games under Conte) as well if it was down to fan pressure. Also if Sarri really did bow to fan pressure 'to save his job' Jorginho, Kovacic and Alonso would have also been dropped months and months ago. He also probably would have swapped from 433 to 4231 if this was the case.

RLC wasnt regular due to fitness and back problems. CHO probably needed to learn and improve off the ball in the other phase which the difference is night and day because weve all seen how cruical full backs are at the top level these days and nulifying them helps, as weve found out on many occasions like when Atletico dumped us out the CL seasons ago with Filipe Luis (I think) getting a massive assist after Hazard didnt track him and even Luke Shaw yesterday providing that assist through being unmarked. Dont think the whole fan and media going on about it made a huge difference, I doubt he even took huge notice of it. 

Someone as stubborn as Sarri or even in the past Conte and Mourinho, is/were hardly gonna give in to the media or the fans, regarding Callum or any other player in the past. Maybe Callums transfer request put pressure on Sarri to show him he wanted him to stay by playing him but I cant see the fans and media (who are tossers with agendas) having as huge an influence as some may believe in terms of coaching and picking teams or squads. I doubt many football clubs and managers are bothered about what the press has to say in footballing terms. 

If we were winning chances are nobody would of gave a shit anyway. Just like at the start of the season. Fans have opinions but I doubt a manager is going to be hugely bothered whether or not they are angry that he isnt playing player X or Y, even with the style has he changed despite the fuck Sarriball chanting shit? No, not one bit. Fans are fans and managers are managers. For instance do you think Pep gives into City fans or English media wanting to see Foden play more? Probably not. 

Think despite the poor season he will be here next season. If its another shite season then its fair to say sacking Conte was a big mistake but again this time last year the Conte thread was effectively the same, 'why does he not play Emerson?', 'wheres Luiz?', 'hes gonna drive players out of the club', 'the football is boring and shite to watch...', 'why did he sell Chalobah to sign Bakayoko?' etc etc. I think its clear regardless of manager, regardless of philosophy that the squad is a bigger concern. Realisitically 3 "bad" seasons in 4 or 5 years. Same core bulk of players minus Courtois, Terry, Cesc, Costa and Matic and a few others. Some of them have declined, some of them have lost their hunger, some probably arent good enough and some probably dont/didnt want to be here at the start of the season. 

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28 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Exactly.

Do people really think a stubborn manager bowed to fan pressure with CHO or RLC even? I really dont think so. I look at our 2-0 v City with Willian and Pedro and at the time I doubt CHO would of been as effective in the defensive phase as he was v Liverpool for instance.

And as you said Kante would be DM (although hes never played as a sitter in a 3 man MF in the PL except first 4 games under Conte) as well if it was down to fan pressure. Also if Sarri really did bow to fan pressure 'to save his job' Jorginho, Kovacic and Alonso would have also been dropped months and months ago. He also probably would have swapped from 433 to 4231 if this was the case.

RLC wasnt regular due to fitness and back problems. CHO probably needed to learn and improve off the ball in the other phase which the difference is night and day because weve all seen how cruical full backs are at the top level these days and nulifying them helps, as weve found out on many occasions like when Atletico dumped us out the CL seasons ago with Filipe Luis (I think) getting a massive assist after Hazard didnt track him and even Luke Shaw yesterday providing that assist through being unmarked. Dont think the whole fan and media going on about it made a huge difference, I doubt he even took huge notice of it. 

Someone as stubborn as Sarri or even in the past Conte and Mourinho, is/were hardly gonna give in to the media or the fans, regarding Callum or any other player in the past. Maybe Callums transfer request put pressure on Sarri to show him he wanted him to stay by playing him but I cant see the fans and media (who are tossers with agendas) having as huge an influence as some may believe in terms of coaching and picking teams or squads. I doubt many football clubs and managers are bothered about what the press has to say in footballing terms. 

Okay, let's pretend CHO's game time, especially in the Premier League, didn't conveniently increase after the fans' protest in that Cardiff game or fans/media pressure to play CHO after his England performances in the last international break...

From the start of February till mid-March - the international break - CHO played only 267 in 8 games and started only 2 of them - both in the Europa League. After the international break or rather, after the protest at Cardiff, CHO suddenly played 275 minutes in just 5 games and started 4 consecutive league games.  

And oh, Sarri also suddenly plays CHO/Loftus-Cheek in a following game when rumors of him getting the sack start to crank up. Almost as if he was trying to appease the fans and save his job...

28 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Also if Sarri really did bow to fan pressure 'to save his job' Jorginho, Kovacic and Alonso would have also been dropped months and months ago. He also probably would have swapped from 433 to 4231 if this was the case.

Sure, but were those noises as loud as giving CHO, Loftus-Cheek more game time? 

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2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Okay, let's pretend CHO's game time, especially in the Premier League, didn't conveniently increase after the fans' protest in that Cardiff game or fans/media pressure to play CHO after his England performances in the last international break...

From the start of February till mid-March - the international break - CHO played only 267 in 8 games and started only 2 of them - both in the Europa League. After the international break or rather, after the protest at Cardiff, CHO suddenly played 275 minutes in just 5 games and started 4 consecutive league games.  

And oh, Sarri also suddenly plays CHO/Loftus-Cheek in a following game when rumors of him getting the sack start to crank up. Almost as if he was trying to appease the fans and save his job...

Sure, but were those noises as loud as giving CHO, Loftus-Cheek more game time? 

So you are saying Sarri, stubborn in everything many have said he is, thought playing 2 x u23 year old Englishmen was the only way to appease the fans and save his job???? And if we lost all those games they played in would us fans of been happy because they still played? A good run of results were the only thing that saved his job. Yes certain players (CHO, RLC and Emerson) minutes increased and other players played less but I think your making more of it than what it is. Callums transfer request probably put more pressure on Sarri to use him than the fans or the media. He could and should of played more earlier in the season (Ruben too) but theres no doubt hes more disciplined and Ruben looks more fitter (probably fittest hes been in his career) and offering more than he ever has in terms of goals/asists. Even Ross Barkley arguably fitter than hes ever been although irrelevant.

Fans can love or hate a manager for selections but if he is getting results would a club be as worried? Everyone has an opinion thats football but for a manager at any club its a result based business. If Sarri was getting results regardless of team selection it wouldnt of mattered. The sack rumours came after a spell of poor form, we won 4 on the bounce or whatever and they went away. Regardless of his starting 11. The whole CHO situation for me was a huge byproduct of the media and fans being frustrated about bad results more than anything as well as England starting him in the international break. If we hadnt had that dip nobody would of been fussed if he had played 23 minutes or 8 games in that period. Or if Ruben had played. Even with the playing style if we had won convincingly playing shite, people would be praising the team for being able to grind out results.

This is Chelsea, the manager getting sacked is always a rumour at some point in the season. Contes future was heavily speculated upon after that Arsenal and Liverpool losses in his first season, which were like 4 games into the season. Sarri was "getting sacked" in month X or Y and after the cup final v City if we lost. Doesnt matter for whatever reason or that, it always comes around when the clubs in poor form, he didnt save his job by playing 2 youngsters, he saved his job because the team won games. 

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I love how the coach gets blamed for an injury to a player that wasn't a fitness issue. Oh btw, it's the same coach that was being blamed for not playing the same player earlier in the season himself. The coach just can't get a break, can he?

 

I don't want Sarri to go, mostly because I know and have seen his Napoli side and know what he's capable of doing. Also, the present Napoli side under Ancelotti is nowhere close to Sarri's Napoli side of 3 years back with mostly the same players bar Jorginho. 

 

I also struggle to understand, what more do you want from manager with this squad? I get it you can blame Sarri for Higuain signing cause he wanted him, but the current crop of players, they're just not good enough to pose a title challenge. The best we could hope for was a Top 4 finish anyway, if we get it, it's a good season re Objectives. 

 

Also, just stop this chopping and changing of managers. Look at the Top 3 in the league. All of them have a long twerm project in place, stop the quick fixes and have a project in place. It was always going to be difficult turning a side that was suited to a 3 at the back formation to a 4 at the back posession based style. The full backs we have, every one of them, is not suited to the current system. Our CM looks decent, our attack is dire as hell. CHO produced in Europa but not doing it in league. It's all about Hazard and it's msotly down to the quality of the players, rather than the tactics of the manager. 

 

As Pep said at his time in Barcelona, "My Job is to get the players with the ball in the Final Third, the rest is upto them to create."

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4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

So you are saying Sarri, stubborn in everything many have said he is, thought playing 2 x u23 year old Englishmen was the only way to appease the fans and save his job????

Essentially, you're trying to say that a stubborn person is immune to fear? Since when those two go hand-in-hand? Why then did CHO's game time conveniently increased after that Cardiff game?

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

And if we lost all those games they played in would us fans of been happy because they still played? A good run of results were the only thing that saved his job.

Given the circumstances, fans would rather lose when the manager tries out new players, players from the academy rather, players who can improve rather than keep on playing bang average players, players who are out of form. 

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yes certain players (CHO, RLC and Emerson) minutes increased and other players played less but I think your making more of it than what it is. Callums transfer request probably put more pressure on Sarri to use him than the fans or the media.

I'm making more than what it is? If that's the case, then tell me why exactly that CHO's game time went up after that Cardiff game? Funny thing about that transfer request is that it did force Sarri's hands and it did but only in January. Once that transfer window closed, it was back to what we saw before that until that Cardiff game

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Fans can love or hate a manager for selections but if he is getting results would a club be as worried? Everyone has an opinion thats football but for a manager at any club its a result based business. If Sarri was getting results regardless of team selection it wouldnt of mattered. The sack rumours came after a spell of poor form, we won 4 on the bounce or whatever and they went away.

The sack rumors did go away after getting some wins on the bounce but it also came after Sarri started playing CHO and Loftus-Cheek more than usual this month. When he didn't play them, we were not winning games, playing dull football and were going nowhere with the XI that got us into all this mess to begin with.

4 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

This is Chelsea, the manager getting sacked is always a rumour at some point in the season. Contes future was heavily speculated upon after that Arsenal and Liverpool losses in his first season, which were like 4 games into the season. Sarri was "getting sacked" in month X or Y and after the cup final v City if we lost. Doesnt matter for whatever reason or that, it always comes around when the clubs in poor form, he didnt save his job by playing 2 youngsters, he saved his job because the team won games. 

But it's not just the sacking rumors with Sarri, is it? We've had two occasions this year alone where the fans loudly protested against him and the last time such thing happened with us was when Benitez was the manager and we all knew he was never going to succeed long term here. No manager is going to succeed long term at any club if the fans are openly against that fella. 

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