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Special Juan

Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

Started by Special Juan,

4,609 posts in this topic
7 hours ago, Tomo said:

It's quite funny that Sarri has done what everyone's wanted for months and it's being swept under carpet, possibly because only 1 of the 3 wanted trio actually performed today.

Still consider this as a positive. 

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2 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

13 times we've conceded a goal between 45-56mins.

Sarri's half time team talks working well then.

So true! Carragher and guy said before half time.. All going well but so was Everton. Then look what happened. 

Then out we come.. And look. My worry also. Is we go a goal down. That's it. We came back against Cardiff that's pretty much it. Any other game gone behind we haven't won

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1 hour ago, Laylabelle said:

We came back against Cardiff that's pretty much it. Any other game gone behind we haven't won

I like Azpi, but as captain he doesn't seem to have the motivational clout to get them going when it get's tough. I just hope the bigger picture of Abramovich not being allowed in the UK, rumours of the club being sold, new ground cancelled, isn't the start of a big rot setting in. 

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8 hours ago, Henrique said:

The game was actually decent. In the first half William thad the best chance of the game. After Liverpool scored 2 goals in a space of few minutes, Sarri reacted quickly and introduced Higuain. Hazard lost two goals in front of the goal, and thats unusual coming from him. Liverpool is the stronger side. So I would say that was a decent effort from Sarri. He wasn't even afraid to put Odoi in the game, even though its clear the kid is not ready for this kind of game. 

Yep. That's why I'm standing here - while disappointed, I'm not fuming.

I have to give credit where credit is due. We didn't play awful like we usually do away, even with the torrid Hazard false 9.

And Sarri actually had the balls to start RLC, Emerson and CHO in this type of game. I dismissed him thinking he won't start any of those players. He proved me wrong.

Although, like Laylabelle picked out...while the performance has been better, STILL the same ol' story we saw most of our away games this year.

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2 hours ago, Laylabelle said:

So true! Carragher and guy said before half time.. All going well but so was Everton. Then look what happened. 

Then out we come.. And look. My worry also. Is we go a goal down. That's it. We came back against Cardiff that's pretty much it. Any other game gone behind we haven't won

that demonstrates what sarri said several times. besides the technical problems, this squad lacks also in mentality 

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Yeah Sarri is the only one who has really focused on improving RLC. Mourinho, Conte and even Roy just shoehorned him in places they believed hid his weaknesses the best. Earlier in the season Sarri was calling Ruben over in game at every opportunity to give him instructions and it looks like his persistence is starting to seriously pay off, something Loftus has mentioned himself.

I think this is a perfect time to get Mount and James in the squad even if the ban gets overturned, I think we need to spend all our budget on serious quality at ST and LB and with Azpi declining and the LCM spot being open, this is the perfect chance for both.

Fully agree. I've always been a huge fan of RLC because he has enormous potential particularly given his size and strength in the middle to just hold players off with ease. But similarly, it was a struggle to see where exactly he would fit into a team but Sarri should be given a lot of credit for his work with him because he's now looking at being a very promising player in that attacking midfield spot and I think he has enough goals to his game to back that up also.

I've also noticed with CHO that he didn't play particularly well against West Ham and Liverpool but he did a lot of tracking back and the hard work that not many attacking players are willing to do. This is what Sarri has suggested held him back earlier in the season and again, this appears to be paying off now. 

Reece James for me is a must next season to come back. I would agree with Mount too, he can essentially replace Kovacic in the side although I'm not sure which player Sarri will look to use as the deeper midfielder if Jorginho is unavailable. Maybe Ampadu gets more opportunities next season as a utility centre back/defensive midfield option?

I would also bring Tammy back next season too. I think this summer will be a case of now or never for him and if Higuain goes back in the summer we need another striker (potentially two if Giroud doesn't sign a new contract).

I'm not sold on him being good enough to become our first choice (although there were question marks over RLC doing the same as recently as weeks ago), but he has a higher upside than Bats and I think could develop to be a good second choice striker for the club, leaving us to concentrate on just needing to bring in one top drawer goalscorer down the line, rather than a whole new strike force.

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7 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Fully agree. I've always been a huge fan of RLC because he has enormous potential particularly given his size and strength in the middle to just hold players off with ease. But similarly, it was a struggle to see where exactly he would fit into a team but Sarri should be given a lot of credit for his work with him because he's now looking at being a very promising player in that attacking midfield spot and I think he has enough goals to his game to back that up also.

I've also noticed with CHO that he didn't play particularly well against West Ham and Liverpool but he did a lot of tracking back and the hard work that not many attacking players are willing to do. This is what Sarri has suggested held him back earlier in the season and again, this appears to be paying off now. 

Reece James for me is a must next season to come back. I would agree with Mount too, he can essentially replace Kovacic in the side although I'm not sure which player Sarri will look to use as the deeper midfielder if Jorginho is unavailable. Maybe Ampadu gets more opportunities next season as a utility centre back/defensive midfield option?

I would also bring Tammy back next season too. I think this summer will be a case of now or never for him and if Higuain goes back in the summer we need another striker (potentially two if Giroud doesn't sign a new contract).

I'm not sold on him being good enough to become our first choice (although there were question marks over RLC doing the same as recently as weeks ago), but he has a higher upside than Bats and I think could develop to be a good second choice striker for the club, leaving us to concentrate on just needing to bring in one top drawer goalscorer down the line, rather than a whole new strike force.

To further add, based on what RLC has said about Sarri's management of him any youngster coming in the squad next season being told by him to improve this and that if they want a shot here will know he means it and is not paying them and the fans lip service (ala Jose/KDB).

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Nice to see people calming down after yesterday's defeat and see that Sarri is doing pretty well with what he has.

I am convinced that he can make Chelsea a real force to be reckoned with. Maybe we will be the source of jokes this season, as was the case with Liverpool in Klopps first season and City in Peps first season.

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1 minute ago, Tomo said:

To further add, based on what RLC has said about Sarri's management of him any youngster coming in the squad next season being told by him to improve this and that if they want a shot here will know he means it and is not paying them and the fans lip service (ala Jose/KDB).

Yes making improvements to their game but also there seems to be a pathway developing that players will get chances if they do work on their game and improve which is a huge motivator.

I've always felt that the first one or two getting through the academy would be a catalyst for more. Christensen was a game changer last season, but the higher profile of RLC and CHO this season I think is the big one.

Somebody mentioned on here the other day about a core group of academy players coming through who will have grown up together and played in a number of youth sides together being a potential huge positive for the club getting that good team spirit and I think there is a big possibility of this happening next year. 

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29 minutes ago, Yeboii said:

Nice to see people calming down after yesterday's defeat and see that Sarri is doing pretty well with what he has.

I am convinced that he can make Chelsea a real force to be reckoned with. Maybe we will be the source of jokes this season, as was the case with Liverpool in Klopps first season and City in Peps first season.

I don´t see any signs of Sarri Ball to be honest. Guardiola nad Klopp at least showed that they were trying to implement something. We can´t even play Sarri Ball for 10 minutes against Everton, which is sad. Players like Hazard are not designed to play Sarri Ball because they like to dribble a lot and don´t pass the ball straight away. Napoli were able to carry the ball to the  goal, but we would need to buy the whole Napoli squad to perform his way of playing, which is insane. We need a way more flexible coach. Sarri once said that he will not chance 4-3-3 because we first need to perfect his 4-3-3 before we could change into another formation, which is a very dumb thing to say. Conte for example wanted to play a weird 4-2-4 and it did not work, so he changed his tactics to a 3-4-3- or sometimes 3-5-2. He at least changed some things when things were not working.Sarri will never try something else. Guardiola tried millioon different tactics in Bayern and that shows that he is flexible to change. Guardiola is unpredictable, while Sarri is not.

When players like Hazard, third best player in the world right now, can´t even play Sarri Ball, I don´t know what players he needs. Also, Sarri needs a lot of time to see what players are not good enough. Barkley, Alonso, Willian and Pedro. It took him 8 months to see that they are not good enough. Azpi also is not good enough and he needs propably 2 years to see that. James will never get a fair chance, he should be loaned out to a PL team, so journalists will pressure Sarri to play him if he performs like they did with CHO.Without the media, CHO would be still playing for  the youth team, which is insane.

Apart from that, his two transfers were so bad. Jorginho is not even close to the class of Cesc. Cesc was bad when players pressured him, but he was always able to play a world class pass. Jorginho is also bad when players pressure him and he is not able to play a world class pass. Even fucking Emerson can play world class passes like Cesc to Hazard. Apart from that, he wanted Higuain and he is complete shit. He probably wants more players from Napoli and I expect them to fail. In Seria A, the pressure of the opponents is not even close to PL. It is hard for them to compete in PL. Jorginho will always play under Sarri and even if we had prime Modric/Xavi, he would not play them because Sarri wants Jorginho to play his style. A style with zero creativity in midfield...

It took us so many years to get a creative player like Cesc because we did not have a player that could make those kind of passes. KDB was one, but Mou did not see his potential, even though Fans could see that.I knew that he was world class, but Mou wanted Frank to play, who was not in his prime any more...

Sarri is overall not he guy we need. Sadly, there are not any other great coaches available, so Sarri has more chances to fuck things up. Next season, without Hazard and possibly without CHO will be really hard. Maybe, Kante leaves us after that, who knows. Kante probably wants to achieve things and our current state, it will be hard. Season after season, we get worse.Giving up our best players and getting players like Jorginho, Alonso,Zappacosta or Higuain (loan I know). We need world class players or world class talents. We don´t need average players. Sarri got us two average players...

 

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21 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

I don´t see any signs of Sarri Ball to be honest. Guardiola nad Klopp at least showed that they were trying to implement something. We can´t even play Sarri Ball for 10 minutes against Everton, which is sad. Players like Hazard are not designed to play Sarri Ball because they like to dribble a lot and don´t pass the ball straight away. Napoli were able to carry the ball to the  goal, but we would need to buy the whole Napoli squad to perform his way of playing, which is insane. We need a way more flexible coach. Sarri once said that he will not chance 4-3-3 because we first need to perfect his 4-3-3 before we could change into another formation, which is a very dumb thing to say. Conte for example wanted to play a weird 4-2-4 and it did not work, so he changed his tactics to a 3-4-3- or sometimes 3-5-2. He at least changed some things when things were not working.Sarri will never try something else. Guardiola tried millioon different tactics in Bayern and that shows that he is flexible to change. Guardiola is unpredictable, while Sarri is not.

When players like Hazard, third best player in the world right now, can´t even play Sarri Ball, I don´t know what players he needs. Also, Sarri needs a lot of time to see what players are not good enough. Barkley, Alonso, Willian and Pedro. It took him 8 months to see that they are not good enough. Azpi also is not good enough and he needs propably 2 years to see that. James will never get a fair chance, he should be loaned out to a PL team, so journalists will pressure Sarri to play him if he performs like they did with CHO.Without the media, CHO would be still playing for  the youth team, which is insane.

Apart from that, his two transfers were so bad. Jorginho is not even close to the class of Cesc. Cesc was bad when players pressured him, but he was always able to play a world class pass. Jorginho is also bad when players pressure him and he is not able to play a world class pass. Even fucking Emerson can play world class passes like Cesc to Hazard. Apart from that, he wanted Higuain and he is complete shit. He probably wants more players from Napoli and I expect them to fail. In Seria A, the pressure of the opponents is not even close to PL. It is hard for them to compete in PL. Jorginho will always play under Sarri and even if we had prime Modric/Xavi, he would not play them because Sarri wants Jorginho to play his style. A style with zero creativity in midfield...

It took us so many years to get a creative player like Cesc because we did not have a player that could make those kind of passes. KDB was one, but Mou did not see his potential, even though Fans could see that.I knew that he was world class, but Mou wanted Frank to play, who was not in his prime any more...

Sarri is overall not he guy we need. Sadly, there are not any other great coaches available, so Sarri has more chances to fuck things up. Next season, without Hazard and possibly without CHO will be really hard. Maybe, Kante leaves us after that, who knows. Kante probably wants to achieve things and our current state, it will be hard. Season after season, we get worse.Giving up our best players and getting players like Jorginho, Alonso,Zappacosta or Higuain (loan I know). We need world class players or world class talents. We don´t need average players. Sarri got us two average players...

 

It has been an extremely tough watch and as I said earlier I am still somewhat on the fence with regards to his project and future.

I would say the last month (besides the Slavia game) our playing out from the back seems to have significantly improved from earlier in the season. Players do seem more comfortable with the ball when being pressed and some of our one touch to get out of tight areas has looked good. I can see now others are on a similar wavelength how Jorginho operates in this manner and his importance to this part of the system. Getting out of that first press, particularly against West Ham and Liverpool it was clear to see the potential and how much space can suddenly be created in behind to spring an attack. Unfortunately that part of our game still isn't in sync.

I would agree that I don't think Hazard's style perfectly fits Sarri, and Willian is the same. Whilst aesthetically pleasing, dribbling past 2 or 3 players is very rarely as effective as passing through the lines and their natural game to hold on to the ball probably does slow down and damage our play at times. It may well be that less talented and reputable players can successfully replace Hazard if they fit the system trying to be played.

The biggest thing though is a goalscorer. We do and have created chances this season but are simply not clinical enough. The football that the likes of Klopp and Pep play is very good but they are also extremely fortunate to have a number of goalscorers in their squads. It is no coincidence that the last two title wins were when Costa scored 20 goals for us, freeing up the burden on others such as Hazard. The title wins prior to that we had numerous players chipping in with significant goal scoring. Until we find someone up top who will regularly score us minimum 15-20 league goals a season it will remain a struggle because there aren't enough goals throughout the rest of the squad.

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Just now, Superblue_1986 said:

It has been an extremely tough watch and as I said earlier I am still somewhat on the fence with regards to his project and future.

I would say the last month (besides the Slavia game) our playing out from the back seems to have significantly improved from earlier in the season. Players do seem more comfortable with the ball when being pressed and some of our one touch to get out of tight areas has looked good. I can see now others are on a similar wavelength how Jorginho operates in this manner and his importance to this part of the system. Getting out of that first press, particularly against West Ham and Liverpool it was clear to see the potential and how much space can suddenly be created in behind to spring an attack. Unfortunately that part of our game still isn't in sync.

I would agree that I don't think Hazard's style perfectly fits Sarri, and Willian is the same. Whilst aesthetically pleasing, dribbling past 2 or 3 players is very rarely as effective as passing through the lines and their natural game to hold on to the ball probably does slow down and damage our play at times. It may well be that less talented and reputable players can successfully replace Hazard if they fit the system trying to be played.

The biggest thing though is a goalscorer. We do and have created chances this season but are simply not clinical enough. The football that the likes of Klopp and Pep play is very good but they are also extremely fortunate to have a number of goalscorers in their squads. It is no coincidence that the last two title wins were when Costa scored 20 goals for us, freeing up the burden on others such as Hazard. The title wins prior to that we had numerous players chipping in with significant goal scoring. Until we find someone up top who will regularly score us minimum 15-20 league goals a season it will remain a struggle because there aren't enough goals throughout the rest of the squad.

A great striker would only fix some problems. A great striker needs also a great midfielder behind him to give him some great balls. Jorginho is not the man, who delivers those kind of passes. Cesc would play those passes and most of Costa´s goals came from Cesc. They were a dream team. As long as Sarri is here, he  will play Jorginho. Jorginho sadly is not able to play creative passes like Cesc used to do, not even close. A great striker and a great midfielder would solve our offensiv problems,or at least more or less. We still have not good enough fullbacks and after Hazard and CHO leave us, we have 2 more areas, that need to get fixed

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Against top 6 away... Played six, lost six, conceded 17 and scored 2

Wooooooope. That's a bit bit shite. 

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2 hours ago, Superblue_1986 said:

Ironically the job he has done with RLC and CHO this season has been a huge positive for the club as both have come on leaps and bounds as the season has progressed and are now both arguably first choice options.

Sarri's style is such a culture shift away from what a large contingent of players are used to under Mourinho and Conte before him and that would be an extremely difficult thing to change within the more experienced older players. 

Even with a transfer ban, if Sarri was to keep his job, I think he needs to look at the progression of RLC and CHO and realise that some more trust in younger players may be needed, who he can mould into his ideology and style having been fairly unexposed to anything in particular yet in their careers. There are 3 or 4 players we could easily integrate into this squad, plus Pulisic coming in next season to start the process of refreshing and rebuilding this squad.

If the club are to go 'all in' with Sarri and are prepared to take a couple of steps back initially to make bigger progress moving forwards then they should also be taking this opportunity to get some of the younger players coming through too.

Why are people suddenly acting like Sarri is doing something revolutionary with our young players? Any non-blind manager would know we have good young players that can be developed into great players. It's just that the board were clueless (still are) and hired managers who don't have a good track record in developing talents. It's worth remembering that Sarri was still favoring Barkley/Kovacic over Loftus-Cheek and Pedro/Willian over CHO until the very recent protest at Cardiff. Had it not been for that, would Sarri have put out the XI we saw in the last 3 league games? Highly doubt it. And speaking of development, it's also worth questioning whether Sarri has actually improved the players, never mind the team as a whole. Has any player actually gotten better under Sarri? It's hard to even pinpoint one and worse of all, he hasn't even improved his own players like Jorginho, Kovacic etc. If he can't even improve the players, then what makes fit to turn our fortunes' around for the better in the long run? 

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I always said I will not get mad if we lose with young players. 

Sarri is doing what I wanted so I'm please. 

Just continue to play them and everything is fine. We know with young players we are bound to have ups and down. I much rather have those ups and down with our youth, then with old internationals. 

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Why are people suddenly acting like Sarri is doing something revolutionary with our young players? Any non-blind manager would know we have good young players that can be developed into great players. It's just that the board were clueless (still are) and hired managers who don't have a good track record in developing talents. It's worth remembering that Sarri was still favoring Barkley/Kovacic over Loftus-Cheek and Pedro/Willian over CHO until the very recent protest at Cardiff. Had it not been for that, would Sarri have put out the XI we saw in the last 3 league games? Highly doubt it. And speaking of development, it's also worth questioning whether Sarri has actually improved the players, never mind the team as a whole. Has any player actually gotten better under Sarri? It's hard to even pinpoint one and worse of all, he hasn't even improved his own players like Jorginho, Kovacic etc. If he can't even improve the players, then what makes fit to turn our fortunes' around for the better in the long run? 

Fair point, it has taken a long time for him to play these players but I do think playing them away at Liverpool is a big indicator that he is ready to run with them as a big part of our squad moving forward.

I don't think what he's doing is revolutionary but a part of me does worry if Sarri walks in the summer, will we revert back to square one with a new manager wanting to play a completely different way and suddenly Willian/Pedro are ahead of CHO in the pecking order, etc immediately based on reputation, giving under performing players yet another chance. At the moment everything is pure speculation but if the club let some players leave in the summer and looked to refresh the squad with some academy and loan players and Sarri is open to working with them, as well as continuing to develop the likes of RLC and CHO, that may not be a bad choice. Especially if we are restricted in the summer with a transfer ban.

I think he has improved RLC and CHO as the season has gone on, especially tactically. Now this may be just as much down to the players learning and adapting to Sarri's methods and tactics but if that is the case then it adds further strength to a plan to try and bring through a couple more academy players next season because they seem to be the biggest positives currently.

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8 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

13 times we've conceded a goal between 45-56mins.

Sarri's half time team talks working well then.

That's a bit harsh. If you analyse it, it's always ONE individual mistake that leads to the team completely switching off. It's as if conceding a goal completely drains the player's moral and give up. 

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42 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

That's a bit harsh. If you analyse it, it's always ONE individual mistake that leads to the team completely switching off. It's as if conceding a goal completely drains the player's moral and give up. 

Seems to happen a lot-  after the third, fifth time it happened, questions should be asked and  measures should be taken. 

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