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Special Juan

Sarri But Not Sarri Thread

Started by Special Juan,

5,539 posts in this topic
3 hours ago, Antonio8 said:

the board choose him to change the type of game not sarri

Yeah but even Guardiola adapted his style to fit the PL with Fernandinho for example who is more of destroyer than creator, something Guardiola always demanded from his DM. Because thats what you have to have in PL.

We play with Jorginho and our DM/CBs look like joke when we are countered. 

My point was that Sarri develops a team that will fit his style but also PL. Jorginho for example simply isnt suited best for that DM role because you have to be physical. We should have went for someone ala Rodri who is also good in defence and good distributor. But Sarri wanted to do the exact same thing with Jorginho in PL that he did in Serie A. He didnt consider the fact this is way more phyisical and faster league. Pep honestly dodged a bullet here. 

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1 minute ago, BlueLyon said:

Yeah but even Guardiola adapted his style to fit the PL with Fernandinho for example who is more of destroyer than creator, something Guardiola always demanded from his DM. Because thats what you have to have in PL.

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6 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Yeah but even Guardiola adapted his style to fit the PL with Fernandinho for example who is more of destroyer than creator, something Guardiola always demanded from his DM. Because thats what you have to have in PL.

We play with Jorginho and our DM/CBs look like joke when we are countered. 

My point was that Sarri develops a team that will fit his style but also PL. Jorginho for example simply isnt suited best for that DM role because you have to be physical. We should have went for someone ala Rodri who is also good in defence and good distributor. But Sarri wanted to do the exact same thing with Jorginho in PL that he did in Serie A. He didnt consider the fact this is way more phyisical and faster league. Pep honestly dodged a bullet here. 

Fernandinho was a box to box player at Shakhtar, Guardiola just did what Ancelotti did to Xavi Alonso at Real basically.. asked him to play as a 6, run less and read the game more when out of possession. Because of Fernandinho's ball winning attributes and tenacity from playing that box to box role he is maybe better suited or maybe this js better worded, more balanced, for that role too but I dont think either are in the team purely to be used as defensive players. They both build the game for their teams and het the ball into the final third. When out of possession yes they need to be able to shield the defence and that but City normally press high and win it or make the opposition punt it long.

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Guardiola never adapted his style since the day he stepped into the premier league. His style requires technical players in every position. Especially fullbacks.

His fullbacks are arguably his most important piece to the jigsaw. We saw it at Bayern. He has his fullbacks push up and play inward sharing the space with his DM. This helps them in transition, pressing, and retaining possession. This also gives more freedom to their wingers, as they operate in much more space when they hug the touchline. 

His first season at City, he had Zabaleta and Kalorov playing there. It's no wonder it failed miserably, not to mention his players were getting caught on the break given they hadn't mastered their press yet. The board back him with upgrades, get signings done before August so they have a full preseason with Pep, and next thing you know they are dominating the league playing his style. 

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59 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Yeah but even Guardiola adapted his style to fit the PL with Fernandinho for example who is more of destroyer than creator, something Guardiola always demanded from his DM. Because thats what you have to have in PL.

We play with Jorginho and our DM/CBs look like joke when we are countered. 

My point was that Sarri develops a team that will fit his style but also PL. Jorginho for example simply isnt suited best for that DM role because you have to be physical. We should have went for someone ala Rodri who is also good in defence and good distributor. But Sarri wanted to do the exact same thing with Jorginho in PL that he did in Serie A. He didnt consider the fact this is way more phyisical and faster league. Pep honestly dodged a bullet here. 

Guardiola took a whole season to figure this out. 

First season not so second season yes. 

I wonder if that is what the board thinks and thus why Sarri is still here.....

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22 hours ago, Vesper said:

Maurizio Sarri lookalike spotted on the timeline – and football twitter did it’s thing

https://www.chelsea-news.co/2019/04/sarri-lookalike-spotted-on-the-timeline-and-football-twitter-did-its-thing/

You’ve got to love football twitter sometimes. If you’re not the butt of their jokes, of course.

The unsuspecting victim in this case, who had a torrent of banter heading their way, was twitter user @Auroras_Smile – who doesn’t even appear to be remotely interested in the beautiful game.

Unfortunately for her, her partner, pictured below, looks insanely like Chelsea manager Maurizio Sarri. The similarity is uncanny – it’s weird.

Of course, football twitter was fast to pick up on the lookalike, and some of the replies to the poor woman’s tweet were comedy gold.

 

 

I would say he looks like Lincoln Burrows from Prison break more than Sarri.

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2 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Yeah but even Guardiola adapted his style to fit the PL with Fernandinho for example who is more of destroyer than creator, something Guardiola always demanded from his DM. Because thats what you have to have in PL.

We play with Jorginho and our DM/CBs look like joke when we are countered. 

My point was that Sarri develops a team that will fit his style but also PL. Jorginho for example simply isnt suited best for that DM role because you have to be physical. We should have went for someone ala Rodri who is also good in defence and good distributor. But Sarri wanted to do the exact same thing with Jorginho in PL that he did in Serie A. He didnt consider the fact this is way more phyisical and faster league. Pep honestly dodged a bullet here. 

 I want to check jorgi stats in the premier league before answer in a correct way.at the moment my impression is that you're right, his defensive phase seems poor

but kovacic is not better then him

 

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3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Fernandinho was a box to box player at Shakhtar, Guardiola just did what Ancelotti did to Xavi Alonso at Real basically.. asked him to play as a 6, run less and read the game more when out of possession. Because of Fernandinho's ball winning attributes and tenacity from playing that box to box role he is maybe better suited or maybe this js better worded, more balanced, for that role too but I dont think either are in the team purely to be used as defensive players. They both build the game for their teams and het the ball into the final third. When out of possession yes they need to be able to shield the defence and that but City normally press high and win it or make the opposition punt it long.

 

3 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Guardiola never adapted his style since the day he stepped into the premier league. His style requires technical players in every position. Especially fullbacks.

His fullbacks are arguably his most important piece to the jigsaw. We saw it at Bayern. He has his fullbacks push up and play inward sharing the space with his DM. This helps them in transition, pressing, and retaining possession. This also gives more freedom to their wingers, as they operate in much more space when they hug the touchline. 

His first season at City, he had Zabaleta and Kalorov playing there. It's no wonder it failed miserably, not to mention his players were getting caught on the break given they hadn't mastered their press yet. The board back him with upgrades, get signings done before August so they have a full preseason with Pep, and next thing you know they are dominating the league playing his style. 

Pep wanted to bring creative DM and it was said Fernandinho wont have key role in his team due to his style. He always wanted to bring someone technical that can pass long balls and control play. He was rumoured with bunch of players from Jorginho, Rodri, Neves etc. 

But due to circumstances he was sort of forced to change his idea of DM because Fernandinho work rate was irreplacable (evident in many games city played without him), Pep realised how important he is for his team and because Pep ideal DM target move didnt materialize (Jorginho). 

Pep always wanted technical, intelligent DM ala Busquets in his system. Fernandinho, while very allround and better than expected was always rumoured to be replaced. But Pep was partly forced to play him because he didnt have anyone else available for that role and in the mean time he realized that such player is simply crucial in PL. He adjusted his system with PL demands and he created a machine. 

As for fullbacks, I completely agree and even we need to do the same. We need faster, more dynamic set to create width and participate in build up. However when it comes to midfield options, Sarri had more options to make us more suited to PL, yet he wanted exactly the same thing as he did in napoli. As if Jorginho was the only player with required skill set. He wasnt. Pep didnt bring anyone from barca in bayern, nor did he bring anyone from bayern to city. He build new team with players that suit his style, but also PL. 

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3 hours ago, Fernando said:

Guardiola took a whole season to figure this out. 

First season not so second season yes. 

I wonder if that is what the board thinks and thus why Sarri is still here.....

I agree with this. Maybe Sarri can figure it out.

However we wont give him as much funds to build his team and Sarri definately has way bigger issues than just figuring demands of PL. 

Rotation, subs, playing youth are also something he has to figure out. 

Id compare us with Klopp pool that looked awful at the start, but had glimpses, just like us. The difference again is that Pool absolutely nailed number of perfect transfers. Salah, Dijk, Robertson,...and integration of TAA. Meanwhile we are about to lose Hazard and board making average deals for years now. Its going to be hard either way.

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3 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

 

Pep wanted to bring creative DM and it was said Fernandinho wont have key role in his team due to his style. He always wanted to bring someone technical that can pass long balls and control play. He was rumoured with bunch of players from Jorginho, Rodri, Neves etc. 

But due to circumstances he was sort of forced to change his idea of DM because Fernandinho work rate was irreplacable (evident in many games city played without him), Pep realised how important he is for his team and because Pep ideal DM target move didnt materialize (Jorginho). 

Pep always wanted technical, intelligent DM ala Busquets in his system. Fernandinho, while very allround and better than expected was always rumoured to be replaced. But Pep was partly forced to play him because he didnt have anyone else available for that role and in the mean time he realized that such player is simply crucial in PL. He adjusted his system with PL demands and he created a machine. 

I still don't see how Pep changed his system? It's the same philosophy with the same game plan and the same ideas. Just because Fernandinho isn't Busquets, doesn't mean it changed his entire blueprint. 

There are rumors because Fernandinho is going to be 34 in May. 

 

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6 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I still don't see how Pep changed his system? It's the same philosophy with the same game plan and the same ideas. Just because Fernandinho isn't Busquets, doesn't mean it changed his entire blueprint. 

There are rumors because Fernandinho is going to be 34 in May. 

 

Instead of playing his ideal creative DM, he opted to stick with Fernandinho due to his tenacity, work rate, defensive ability etc. Basicaly in another reality, he could play Kante in that position. 

Meanwhile Sarri wanted at all cost Jorginho type DM and stated Kante cant play there due to technical limitations. 

Thats the difference. In PL you need strong, dynamic DM. Pep realised that and adjusted to it. Sarri didnt and now we play with Jorginho who gets overrun on number of times.

Fernandinho is getting old thats why he is going to be replaced soon. But if he was younger, he would be Pep's key player for quite a while.

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14 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Instead of playing his ideal creative DM, he opted to stick with Fernandinho due to his tenacity, work rate, defensive ability etc. Basicaly in another reality, he could play Kante in that position. 

You are honestly underestimating Fernandinho. :lol: 

He has always been a technically gifted player. His passing and ability on the ball eclipses Kante's. There is zero argument there. 

14 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Meanwhile Sarri wanted at all cost Jorginho type DM and stated Kante cant play there due to technical limitations. 

Thats the difference. In PL you need strong, dynamic DM. Pep realised that and adjusted to it. Sarri didnt and now we play with Jorginho who gets overrun on number of times.

Fernandinho is getting old thats why he is going to be replaced soon. But if he was younger, he would be Pep's key player for quite a while.

But that is Sarri's style. A holding midfielder being able to retain possession vs an all out ball winner. Pep was fortunate to have Fernandinho who has both qualities. 

Pep didn't adjust anything. Fernandinho was always his first choice DM. Even Fernandinho left a lot of space his first season with Pep when teams countered them on the break. City upgraded his fullbacks and the new players had a full preseason with Pep, and now they look fantastic. 

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46 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

 

Pep wanted to bring creative DM and it was said Fernandinho wont have key role in his team due to his style. He always wanted to bring someone technical that can pass long balls and control play. He was rumoured with bunch of players from Jorginho, Rodri, Neves etc. 

But due to circumstances he was sort of forced to change his idea of DM because Fernandinho work rate was irreplacable (evident in many games city played without him), Pep realised how important he is for his team and because Pep ideal DM target move didnt materialize (Jorginho). 

Pep always wanted technical, intelligent DM ala Busquets in his system. Fernandinho, while very allround and better than expected was always rumoured to be replaced. But Pep was partly forced to play him because he didnt have anyone else available for that role and in the mean time he realized that such player is simply crucial in PL. He adjusted his system with PL demands and he created a machine. 

As for fullbacks, I completely agree and even we need to do the same. We need faster, more dynamic set to create width and participate in build up. However when it comes to midfield options, Sarri had more options to make us more suited to PL, yet he wanted exactly the same thing as he did in napoli. As if Jorginho was the only player with required skill set. He wasnt. Pep didnt bring anyone from barca in bayern, nor did he bring anyone from bayern to city. He build new team with players that suit his style, but also PL. 

Tbf Fernandinhos passing has always been pretty good regardless. He was a box to box midfielder and now he is so much than just a holding midfielder, he can create plays from deep, has improved tactically. He may commit tactical fouls but even then, I think hes probably surprised Pep morw than anybody else at how good hes been playing more disciplined as a fixed pivot as opposed to more free as he was under Pellegrini at times.

Honestly hes been one of the best and consistent MF players in the PL since shifting to that role. Pep wanted Jorginho because of Fernandinhos age, honestly with that City team and how vital Fernandinho really is (Gundogan cannot do the same in that role for them and they struggle bigtime without him), I dont think Pep would of dumped him for Jorginho (or Fre) straight away if he signed him.

 

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I really don't know what to think about the prospect of keeping Sarri. The squad isn't great, esp. up top and in fullback, but Sarri has continuously compounded the squad's shortcomings with a shitty centre midfield setup this season. I can kind of excuse him for his willingness to stick with the original idea of Jorginho sitting deep, but also I ridicule the decision to do so because Jorginho is weak, a lesser passer than Fabregas was, not that quick, and redundant when he is incapable of creating forward momentum while we have two centre backs capable of passing AND dribbling from the roughly the same area where Jorginho resides.

Sarri should have tried something else by now, esp. given that Jorginho is not a bad shooter either. I know Jorginho can shoot from his time before Napoli too. But, here we are again with a manager that refuses to be adventurous with the options the squad provided for him this season. Five matches to go and CHO has just ONE PL start??? Willian perpetually ineffective around the box unless it's a weak opponent.

None of this makes sense from a tactical POV regardless of our shortcomings in CF.

So, what's the decision then? 

Chelsea are a mess with some good young talent ready to take up the banner. Good future potential, but the squad needs more still. This manager COULD evolve, but I think he has demonstrated little nous this season for the PL.

I'd like to see Marina and Maurizio gone if I am forced to make a decision right now.  Stupid after stupid after stupid.

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3 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

It does seem that people are really all or nothing. I have been critical of Sarri, I am pleased at the way he has been changing things up a bit, no one gets everything wrong and everything right. I thought that sub was fine at the time, doesn’t mean he has won me over, doesn’t mean he has to be sacked, we wait and see. Good result, good performance, enjoyed watching Chelsea yesterday.

Exactly this for me. Won't refuse to enjoy the game or say we did well because I don't like sarris style. In truth I actually think I (may) have jumped the gun on him. Can definitely see a marked improvement in our style in the last few games. Passing is lovely at times, very slick. Plus he's playing the boys now too. Things looking up

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3 hours ago, Fulham Broadway said:

It does seem that people are really all or nothing. I have been critical of Sarri, I am pleased at the way he has been changing things up a bit, no one gets everything wrong and everything right. I thought that sub was fine at the time, doesn’t mean he has won me over, doesn’t mean he has to be sacked, we wait and see. Good result, good performance, enjoyed watching Chelsea yesterday.

Agree. He's not leaving before the end of this season at the earliest now for sure, so the crowd really need to back him and the players for a big push in these last few games.

Let's see where we are at come the end of the season and re-assess things then. If we've achieved top 4 and/or won the Europa League it would be a solid season given some of the struggles we've had at times.

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The crowd were good last night, have been since he started picking the right line ups instead of picking players who were constantly under performing.

The mass annoyance from the crowd simply comes from his shit selections, his shit substitutions and the lack of game time for lads who should be given more game time.

The acid tests comes in the next two games, Prague on Thursday should be where the little changes are made ready for Sunday at Anfield. The strongest side we can field now is the one that started last night, which means Emerson, CHO and RLC for Sunday with Alonso, Willian/Pedro and Kovacic/Barkley on Thursday.

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15 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

The crowd were good last night, have been since he started picking the right line ups instead of picking players who were constantly under performing.

The mass annoyance from the crowd simply comes from his shit selections, his shit substitutions and the lack of game time for lads who should be given more game time.

The acid tests comes in the next two games, Prague on Thursday should be where the little changes are made ready for Sunday at Anfield. The strongest side we can field now is the one that started last night, which means Emerson, CHO and RLC for Sunday with Alonso, Willian/Pedro and Kovacic/Barkley on Thursday.

It pushes everybody to step up and perform now rather than feeling comfortable with their position in the team. 

The only players currently who are undroppable for all the main games are Kepa, Kante and Hazard. 

The rest of the team need to perform to get in. I would love to see Willian or Pedro play a blinder on Thursday night and help win us the game. It gives Sarri options and decisions to make with more players pushing for their best form in the run in.

Barkley came on last night and got a great assist for the second goal. He needed that because his place is under huge threat from RLC's performances recently. We haven't had enough of that this season but hopefully the penny has dropped for Sarri just at the right time.

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