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the wes

Tiemoué Bakayoko

Started by the wes,

1,065 posts in this topic

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/conte-wants-bakayoko-to-replace-60m-oscar-pv86rbkkc

Tiemoué Bakayoko

Michael Emenalo, Chelsea’s technical director, is understood to have scouted Bakayoko on several occasions this season and delivered positive reports about the 22-year-old, while Conte accompanied Emenalo to France to watch Monaco’s Champions League game against Tottenham Hotspur last month.

Chelsea’s French scout Guy Hillion is believed to have watched Bakayoko at least a dozen times this season and has also recommended Monaco’s full back Djibril Sidibé.

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Monaco has some brilliant young players. Bakayoko, Sidibe, Silva, Fabinho and Lemar. 

If we sell Oscar, I would love Lemar as his replacement. Great young player and probably wouldnt cost fortune.

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18 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Monaco has some brilliant young players. Bakayoko, Sidibe, Silva, Fabinho and Lemar. 

You left out Kylian Mbappe :D we should steal a few of their talent 

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https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/21/chelsea-tiemoue-bakayoko-djibril-sidibe-oscar-windfall

The Guardian, who are usually very reliable, report that we are looking to spend the Oscar money on Bakayoko and Sidibe. 
I will admit that I have seen Monaco only sporadically lately, but in the game yesterday where he scored the winner Bakayoko had an excellent game. Fully developed I could see him as a more athletic (stronger and faster) version on Matic, with the ability to be an attacking threat as well. I have not seen enough of him though to gain an understanding of his decision-making and positioning. 

Guardian also says however that due to CL play, the deals will be very difficult to pull off in January. It may be that they wont happen until the summer. United are also rumored to be after Bakayoko. 

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http://www.squawka.com/news/who-is-manchester-united-and-chelsea-target-tiemoue-bakayoko-and-which-club-would-he-suit-best/859237

I have never seen him play so i have no opinion on the player. But from what I am reading he seems like a very very good fit. Conte has seen him with his own eyes and that is very important. Exciting times!

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2 hours ago, akgw13 said:

http://www.squawka.com/news/who-is-manchester-united-and-chelsea-target-tiemoue-bakayoko-and-which-club-would-he-suit-best/859237

I have never seen him play so i have no opinion on the player. But from what I am reading he seems like a very very good fit. Conte has seen him with his own eyes and that is very important. Exciting times!

I find it interesting that squawka considers Bakayoko to be an upgrade "in every single aspect" to Matic. Pretty bold statement for a 22-year old playing in the French league, when you compare him with Matic who has been voted the best player in Portugal, and won the league with Chelsea. Granted, they might be right, it just seems a bit premature. Of course, from the handful of games and clips of him I have seen, he reminds me of a more dynamic Yaya Toure with worse passing.  

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8 minutes ago, Rekin said:

I find it interesting that squawka considers Bakayoko to be an upgrade "in every single aspect" to Matic. Pretty bold statement for a 22-year old playing in the French league, when you compare him with Matic who has been voted the best player in Portugal, and won the league with Chelsea. Granted, they might be right, it just seems a bit premature. Of course, from the handful of games and clips of him I have seen, he reminds me of a more dynamic Yaya Toure with worse passing.  

I agree, that statement stood out to me as well. It seems he has that tantalizing future projection coupled with a pretty established game currently. A mix of Matic and Toure works for me though haha Both monaco prospects seem to be conte type players so lets hope Marina is in charge of negotiations!

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Looks unremarkable. We already have Kante and Matic. I don't understand the purpose of signing Bakayoko and was hoping we'd spend that Oscar money on real quality players. This is what the board does anyways nowadays. Spend 25-30m pounds on middling players while our rivals are adding quality to their sides. 

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4 minutes ago, nono said:

Looks unremarkable. We already have Kante and Matic. I don't understand the purpose of signing Bakayoko and was hoping we'd spend that Oscar money on real quality players. This is what the board does anyways nowadays. Spend 25-30m pounds on middling players while our rivals are adding quality to their sides. 

Have you watched a lot of monaco? or what is your reasoning for calling him "unremarkable" and "middling" (i genuinely am curious as I have no personal opinion on the player)

We have not spent any of the oscar money or any of the money Roman said he was prepared to spend for conte so i don't think its necessarily fair to say we only spend 25-30m on "middling" players.

We bought 4 players this year, Luiz/Kante in the price range which you referenced who are indispensable important players. Marcos Alonso who without him the 343 would not work and Batman who is stuck behind the most on form striker in the world at the moment. 

Fernando likes this

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On 12/17/2016 at 5:24 PM, Blue Colored Sky said:

He'll only eats out Chalobah minutes. Same age, same position, same build.

Would be incredibly stupid buy. 

Chalobah is never going to be more than a O Shea style squad player, abandoning signing's because of Nate would be insane.

17 minutes ago, nono said:

Looks unremarkable. We already have Kante and Matic. I don't understand the purpose of signing Bakayoko and was hoping we'd spend that Oscar money on real quality players. This is what the board does anyways nowadays. Spend 25-30m pounds on middling players while our rivals are adding quality to their sides. 

We already have four players who are the best in the league in their position and another who's 2nd to an world class player, and another who you could argue is the best on current form. Unfortunately we can't have Hazard and Bale on the wings with Neymar as supersub so we need to get some good players in to make a competitive squad.

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Very good player, but I dont realy see the need at the moment. 

Sure it would be good to have backup for Matic and Kante, but he is young and needs to play. Its pointless to bring him here unless he can get starting spot. 

That said, Kante is irreplacable, so it would be Matic. Kante-Bakayoko looks strong but lacks creativity.

Like I said he is very good player, but we need creative mid, RW and perhaps LB before we go for backups in DM area where we already have two very capable players in Kante and Matic.

We are also linked with Sidibe; where would he fit? He is also too good for being Moses backup

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18 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Very good player, but I dont realy see the need at the moment. 

Sure it would be good to have backup for Matic and Kante, but he is young and needs to play. Its pointless to bring him here unless he can get starting spot. 

That said, Kante is irreplacable, so it would be Matic. Kante-Bakayoko looks strong but lacks creativity.

Like I said he is very good player, but we need creative mid, RW and perhaps LB before we go for backups in DM area where we already have two very capable players in Kante and Matic.

We are also linked with Sidibe; where would he fit? He is also too good for being Moses backup

We need competition for places our squad in this formation is bare thin... 

Bakayoko looks like a squad player capable of giving Kante or Matic a break should their form drop.(And there has been evidence of Kante's form slipping slightly) 

We have a creative mid in Fabregas who barely plays, its clear to me Conte prefers energy and ball winning ability in the middle over creativity. A midfielder that can do both is rare and def not available in January.

If we are linked with Sidibe is because we need competition for places and Moses or Alonso have no peer right now.

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45 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Very good player, but I dont realy see the need at the moment. 

Sure it would be good to have backup for Matic and Kante, but he is young and needs to play. Its pointless to bring him here unless he can get starting spot. 

That said, Kante is irreplacable, so it would be Matic. Kante-Bakayoko looks strong but lacks creativity.

Like I said he is very good player, but we need creative mid, RW and perhaps LB before we go for backups in DM area where we already have two very capable players in Kante and Matic.

We are also linked with Sidibe; where would he fit? He is also too good for being Moses backup

I think the idea is indeed to provide an alternative to Matic. Keep in mind that Conte wanted Nainggolan even after Matic was staying and we got Kante, so it is likely that he is not very highly rated. 
Having a more creative partner to Kante without giving away the solidity in the middle is a priority in my opinion, but every time I am trying to think of someone who is a combination of Fabregas and Kante I fail to come up with a realistic option. 

Nevertheless, I do not think Matic has been amazing for us, even this season. He is good, but he just seems to lack a clear purpose. He has a good technique, but lacks the dynamism to take advantage of it. He lacks the passing range to provide a threat from the depth (assists dont matter here, its a statistic that can be very misleading). Basically, he is a disrupting element that delivers the ball to a someone more offensive whenever possible. Kante does this too, but he does it with far more energy. If not for the height, I would prefer a Kante - Kante midfield to a Matic - Kante one.

Anyway, I took the liberty to compare some statistics between four players. Our own Kante & Matic, but also Bakayoko and Naby Keita. The left-most are the best in each category underneath. 

Tackles - Kante, Bakayoko, Keita, Matic

Interceptions - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

Clearances - Bakayoko, Matic, Keita, Kante

Dribbled past per game - basically identical, Kante is slightly worse than the others

Key passes - Keita, Matic, Kante, Bakayoko (very poor here)

Pass success - Almost identical between them (Keita is poor here)

Dribbles - Keita, Bakayoko, Kante, Matic

Shots - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

 

These are just some selected categories I think are relevant to the position, and they fail to take many things in consideration. For example, Monaco and Chelsea play differently, the teams are in different leagues with different players surrounding and supporting them. Furthermore, Matic is 6-7 years older than Keita and Bakayoko. Still, if we only look at the statistics, Matic is not doing well (and no, I did not choose categories where he is performing poorly on purpose). It is very possible that if we bought Bakayoko in January, and let him rotate with Matic until summer, he would be starting next to Kante next season rather than Matic. 
What the statistics tell me the most though, is that Keita is developing to be that player next to Kante we need. He should be the one we target, whether now or in the summer. For being a 21-year old, he is doing extremely well. 

EDIT: I found this on Redcafe:
I have watched Monaco a few times this season when they played against PSG and Spurs. Bakayoko did impress in those matches. The closest player Bakayoko resembles to in my opinion is Matic. He is a destroyer with the ability to keep the ball under pressure and he can carry the ball out of midfield to initiate attacks. His passing range however leaves much to be desired. Passing in between the lines, switching the play and spotting the runners who makes movements into space has what made Carrick a mainstay in the United team for a decade and Bakayoko unfortunately wouldn't be providing those qualities from what I have seen.

This is also the feeling I get. Bakayoko is more of an improvement on Matic (possibly) rather than a completely different player. It does make sense though. With Mikel leaving, a long-term injury to Kante or Matic would be a disaster. The signing would make sense, even though again, I believe Keita is closer to the type of a player we need. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Rekin said:

I think the idea is indeed to provide an alternative to Matic. Keep in mind that Conte wanted Nainggolan even after Matic was staying and we got Kante, so it is likely that he is not very highly rated. 
Having a more creative partner to Kante without giving away the solidity in the middle is a priority in my opinion, but every time I am trying to think of someone who is a combination of Fabregas and Kante I fail to come up with a realistic option. 

Nevertheless, I do not think Matic has been amazing for us, even this season. He is good, but he just seems to lack a clear purpose. He has a good technique, but lacks the dynamism to take advantage of it. He lacks the passing range to provide a threat from the depth (assists dont matter here, its a statistic that can be very misleading). Basically, he is a disrupting element that delivers the ball to a someone more offensive whenever possible. Kante does this too, but he does it with far more energy. If not for the height, I would prefer a Kante - Kante midfield to a Matic - Kante one.

Anyway, I took the liberty to compare some statistics between four players. Our own Kante & Matic, but also Bakayoko and Naby Keita. The left-most are the best in each category underneath. 

Tackles - Kante, Bakayoko, Keita, Matic

Interceptions - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

Clearances - Bakayoko, Matic, Keita, Kante

Dribbled past per game - basically identical, Kante is slightly worse than the others

Key passes - Keita, Matic, Kante, Bakayoko (very poor here)

Pass success - Almost identical between them (Keita is poor here)

Dribbles - Keita, Bakayoko, Kante, Matic

Shots - Keita, Kante, Bakayoko, Matic

 

These are just some selected categories I think are relevant to the position, and they fail to take many things in consideration. For example, Monaco and Chelsea play differently, the teams are in different leagues with different players surrounding and supporting them. Furthermore, Matic is 6-7 years older than Keita and Bakayoko. Still, if we only look at the statistics, Matic is not doing well (and no, I did not choose categories where he is performing poorly on purpose). It is very possible that if we bought Bakayoko in January, and let him rotate with Matic until summer, he would be starting next to Kante next season rather than Matic. 
What the statistics tell me the most though, is that Keita is developing to be that player next to Kante we need. He should be the one we target, whether now or in the summer. For being a 21-year old, he is doing extremely well. 

EDIT: I found this on Redcafe:
I have watched Monaco a few times this season when they played against PSG and Spurs. Bakayoko did impress in those matches. The closest player Bakayoko resembles to in my opinion is Matic. He is a destroyer with the ability to keep the ball under pressure and he can carry the ball out of midfield to initiate attacks. His passing range however leaves much to be desired. Passing in between the lines, switching the play and spotting the runners who makes movements into space has what made Carrick a mainstay in the United team for a decade and Bakayoko unfortunately wouldn't be providing those qualities from what I have seen.

This is also the feeling I get. Bakayoko is more of an improvement on Matic (possibly) rather than a completely different player. It does make sense though. With Mikel leaving, a long-term injury to Kante or Matic would be a disaster. The signing would make sense, even though again, I believe Keita is closer to the type of a player we need. 

 

34 minutes ago, Chelsea Legend 11 said:

We need competition for places our squad in this formation is bare thin... 

Bakayoko looks like a squad player capable of giving Kante or Matic a break should their form drop.(And there has been evidence of Kante's form slipping slightly) 

We have a creative mid in Fabregas who barely plays, its clear to me Conte prefers energy and ball winning ability in the middle over creativity. A midfielder that can do both is rare and def not available in January.

If we are linked with Sidibe is because we need competition for places and Moses or Alonso have no peer right now.

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

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7 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

The suggestion is that Bakayoko could either already be, or soon become, better than Matic. If you could keep the balance we have in the middle right now, but do so with a player that can do what Matic does with the potential of doing more, would you say no?
Bakayoko is 22, and he is in a specific tactical setup right now. He might have qualities that the untrained eye misses.
For the record, he is not my number one wish for the position, but I see some rational thinking in bringing him on, should it happen.  

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4 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Im very aware we need backup once Mikel leaves, but I dont see having Kante and Bakayoko on field the same time.

Bakayoko offers very little more than Matic and its clear that at some point we will try to replace Matic with different player. In this case we would bring Bakayoko only to be either backup or Matic short term replacement until we get someone more allround (with better attacking threat, but still good defensive abilities; think prime Vidal). 

Sure atm there is no player of such quality available, but why go after Bakayoko? Unless he is backup or we will sell Matic in summer, I dont see need to have Bakayoko.

Either Kante and allround mid with Bakayoko as backup and option for tough matches or Kante allround mid and Matic as backup or option for tough matches. Matic and Bakayoko at same time in squad even if one for first 11 and other for back up is pointless because both are the same type of player with Bakayoko slightly more athletic. 

Nevermind the fact that Bakayoko is young and needs time to play. Getting him for backup would be awful because it would stall his progress. 

And Kante-Bakayoko; regardless if Conte wants strong mid, those two will provide little to nothing in offense.

Why go after Bakayoko? Because he provides energy, technique and ball winning ability to a team that have thrived up until this point on these exact qualities. We're in for the title, if anything happens to either Kante or Matic we're screwed that loss/losses becomes marginal if we are able to acquire a like for like substitute in Bakayoko. Remember we're not just losing Mikel its also Oscar. No one we get in January is going to be an automatic starter, what we need are options should players form drop. We can address your want for a prime Vidal(if that even exists) in the Summer.

And as far as his progress goes how does minimal playing time in a 4 month period stall a 22 yr olds career? If it doesn't work out he goes on loan next year to get more time. Its about challenging yourself at the highest level, that's when you begin to understand how far you need to go and how hard you need to work... Moses is a perfect example of this. 

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On 12/17/2016 at 5:24 PM, Blue Colored Sky said:

He'll only eats out Chalobah minutes. Same age, same position, same build.

Would be incredibly stupid buy. 

But hes a much much better player though. Chalobah is not bad but still hes hardly playing a lot or at a level to compete with Cesc, Matic or Kante. There is a lot of talk about Verratti and the Croatian bloke from Fiorentina being targets for us too, hardly promising for Chalobah's future is it? 

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This is a Conte player. Exactly the type of defensive midfielder he loves to play in a 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 formation. Very strong and will bring much energy to our midfield. I think that's what Antonio is looking out for for the eventual change to 3-5-2. 2 strong DM's, think N'Golo, Matic and this guy and then a box to box midfielder like Nainggolan or even better Verratti.

Isn't AS Monaco full of young talented players? I watched the UCL games against Spurs and what a wonderfull club. Thomas Lemar. This Bakayoko.
I prefer Bakayoko and Sidibe over James.

People who rage over this guy because of Chalobah... don't think Nate is being favoured much by Conte.

 

Reminds me a bit off Michael Essien. As much as Kanté reminds me of Makelele. 

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