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Special Juan

The Conte Thread

Started by Special Juan,

7,521 posts in this topic
13 minutes ago, Tomo said:

How do you define proper support? Many years Fergie had to put up with average to shit windows and not getting exactly what he wanted like us this summer. He also had to put up with Blackburn, Chelsea and then City financially pissing all over United the same way we now have to deal with City and Paris to us. He lost out on the likes of Shearer, Essien, Ballack, Robben amoungst many others similarly to how we are currently losing out to the Manc clubs, he lost the likes of Tevez, Ronaldo and Beckham in the same way we MIGHT lose Eden. I only wish Conte was our Fergie, because if he was he might have got on with it despite (understandable) frustration's and found a solution on the training pitch, you know like he's paid handsomely to do.

The similarities were there last season, at least with our awesome Fergie-esque flat-track bullying. Too bad that's now gone down the drain too.

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32 minutes ago, Tomo said:

How do you define proper support? Many years Fergie had to put up with average to shit windows and not getting exactly what he wanted like us this summer. He also had to put up with Blackburn, Chelsea and then City financially pissing all over United the same way we now have to deal with City and Paris to us. He lost out on the likes of Shearer, Essien, Ballack, Robben amoungst many others similarly to how we are currently losing out to the Manc clubs, he lost the likes of Tevez, Ronaldo and Beckham in the same way we MIGHT lose Eden. I only wish Conte was our Fergie, because if he was he might have got on with it despite (understandable) frustration's and found a solution on the training pitch, you know like he's paid handsomely to do.

Beckham was forced to move on by Fergie. If a player rivaled him or thought they were bigger than the club then they were ousted. Yes you make good points about the transfer windows Fergie endured and how he had to watch ourselves and City become financially empowered whilst he was, in many ways under financial restraints. Although that being said, Fergie was always backed by the heirachy of the Manchester. He was allowed to manage the squad his own way. He actually had a say in bringing players into that squad and yes on more than one occasion he got that wrong but he certainly got it right too. Again back to what I was saying in regards to Beckham who was one of the most popular players on the planet during his rise at United. When he crossed Fergie, SAF did not fuck around. He told the board he has to go and off he went. I know Fergie was in an untouchable position after what success he had brought to United but for me this is the best way a club should be run. The greatest managers in footballing history have always had complete control of the squad and some say wether big or small on transfer dealings. Here at Chelsea it seems the manager, coach or whatever you want to call him is just suppose to impose tactics upon a squad picked by other figures above and beyond.

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1 hour ago, Barbara said:
4 hours ago, Henrique said:
Mate, Conte is not the kind of manager Real Madrid will look for. He doesn't even have the "Champions League winner" brand over him. The last thing Real Madrid want is a manager using 3CB in a game against Rayo Vallecano at Santiago Bernabeu AND a manager that is not afraid of complaining in the press about the lack of control on the transfer window.

 

Did you forget they had Rafa fucking Benitez before Zizou?

Benitez is from Spain, Benitez is a Champions Legue winner, Benitez had a previous experience in La Liga when he won the League with Valencia, Benitez is not known as ultra-defensive or a manager that make public complains about the club in the press. 

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16 minutes ago, DDA said:

Beckham was forced to move on by Fergie. If a player rivaled him or thought they were bigger than the club then they were ousted. Yes you make good points about the transfer windows Fergie endured and how he had to watch ourselves and City become financially empowered whilst he was, in many ways under financial restraints. Although that being said, Fergie was always backed by the heirachy of the Manchester. He was allowed to manage the squad his own way. He actually had a say in bringing players into that squad and yes on more than one occasion he got that wrong but he certainly got it right too. Again back to what I was saying in regards to Beckham who was one of the most popular players on the planet during his rise at United. When he crossed Fergie, SAF did not fuck around. He told the board he has to go and off he went. I know Fergie was in an untouchable position after what success he had brought to United but for me this is the best way a club should be run. The greatest managers in footballing history have always had complete control of the squad and some say wether big or small on transfer dealings. Here at Chelsea it seems the manager, coach or whatever you want to call him is just suppose to impose tactics upon a squad picked by other figures above and beyond.

Fergie and Becks fell out initially due to his flirting with Real, it was his eye for a new challenge that started it all. Power to the extent Fergie has at United should be earned, we lost both KDB and Costa because of the managers power and could have lost Drogs and Hazard also plus most clubs run a transfer comittee especially these days. Im not convinced Conte has no say either, maybe not the final say but i can't fathom that our sudden fettish for Serie A players and targetmen are a coincidence, the boards profile of signings down the years have been the total opposite.

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Imo the blames lies with Conte and the board. 

The board for buying average players and not going after proper quality player that can improve this team.

Conte because he keeps playing the same way and the same players and then is suprised when we play the same shit week in week out.

I get that this squad is average but constantly reassuring himself that he's doing the best he can isn't helpful at all. 

These are the players he has. Try something different. Tactically and/or personnel wise. Just try something because what he's doing now isn't working.

 

I don't really blame the players. The few quality players we have simply can't carry this average side anymore.

The average players, can't really blame them either. Sure it's frustrating watching Bakayoko gift the ball away. Watching Cahill play hide and seek with the attackers 

but it's not their fault they're playing for a club that's above their ability and constantly starting. The board bought them /extended their contract. Conte keeps playing them. 

You can't blame average players for being average. Can't blame poor players for being poor. They are what they are. We knew Moses wasn't good enough to be a starter at Stoke.

We knew Alonso was slow as fuck. 

Again this is on the board and Conte. 

 

 

 

 

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The one question I have for Conte when we play without a proper no 9, why do we keep playing as hazard as no 9. I dont likee seeing hazard playing with back to the goal, why not try Pedro over there. Ask him to just keep running the channel to open up space for hazard

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2 hours ago, Belgiannutt said:

Imo the blames lies with Conte and the board. 

The board for buying average players and not going after proper quality player that can improve this team.

Conte because he keeps playing the same way and the same players and then is suprised when we play the same shit week in week out.

I get that this squad is average but constantly reassuring himself that he's doing the best he can isn't helpful at all. 

These are the players he has. Try something different. Tactically and/or personnel wise. Just try something because what he's doing now isn't working.

 

I don't really blame the players. The few quality players we have simply can't carry this average side anymore.

The average players, can't really blame them either. Sure it's frustrating watching Bakayoko gift the ball away. Watching Cahill play hide and seek with the attackers 

but it's not their fault they're playing for a club that's above their ability and constantly starting. The board bought them /extended their contract. Conte keeps playing them. 

You can't blame average players for being average. Can't blame poor players for being poor. They are what they are. We knew Moses wasn't good enough to be a starter at Stoke.

We knew Alonso was slow as fuck. 

Again this is on the board and Conte. 

 

 

 

 

Mainly it's the board.

Also, I know that Batshuayi and Bakayoko are NOT Conte signings. Even though Morata has struggled and is not coping well with Premier League referees and defenders, the lack of a 2nd striker in the squad is critical.

There was too much change that needed to happen with the Chelsea squad for many windows now. To me, Chelsea have been trying to play catch-up for years already --and no, they've not bought top players along the way (aside from Kante, Diego, Fab). No one has come in to help Hazard aside from Diego (Fabregas negligible most of the time due to position in RCM and lack of speed).

On top of that, pissing away two huge players like de Bruyne and Salah without buyback clauses hasn't helped.

https://talksport.com/football/antonio-conte-paying-michael-emenalos-mistakes-transfer-market-says-former-chelsea-star-ray#JQRisXaxId9cSVz4.99

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We should have gotten this guy. This is how you support your manager

Borussia Dortmund's chief scout is working for Arsenal since last November.

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12 hours ago, Blusan Alamb said:

 

Wow!!! So now we must have exhausted every front line managers who might have turned us down... And we start going after average rated managers ... guess we deserve it. 

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15 hours ago, Henrique said:

"How hilariously ridiculous sacking Mourinho in favor of Conte would be ffs".

Talk Chelsea 2 years ago.

Woah there bud. This was definitely not me.

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I wouldn't be so hard on Enrique. I think labeling managers as good or average during these days is useless. For me, there are good fits and bad fits. I think Zidane, for example, cannot even be compared with the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho or even Wenger in terms of managerial skills, but he's been a good fit for Real. He provided exactly what that bunch of players needed. He gave them confidence and freedom. He fit the squad's personality and that got them two Champions League trophies. 

I am not exactly sure what kind of manager can be a good fit for Chelsea, but it seems that the hard working ones tend to fail after a while. Maybe Enrique, even if he doesn't seem to be as qualified as Guardiola, let's say, will turn out to have the qualities that this club and squad need at this point. I am skeptical too, but it might be the case. 

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A Southgate or Roy Hodgson type is about the mould that would fit us right now. A real typical English yes man that is like a nodding dog. One that would just accept the signings that are given to them say all the most beautiful thing in a press conference they want to hear.

 

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Luis Enrique is the sort of manager you'd see someone like Everton or another midtable club appoint. A smaller club that thinks "this guy managed Messi and Barca, he'll do wonders here!" In reality, and much like Zidane at Real Madrid, you could've put AVB on the touchline and won with the sides they had.

Enrique has shown nothing to suggest he's ready for a job like Chelsea. Especially at a time where we'll need to compete with so many other rivals that have established, top class managers who will have been at their clubs for years. This is why we either have to keep Conte or appoint a proven manager. Enrique would be a huge gamble that I feel would fail miserably.

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@Tomo - he came here with a philosophy and asked for players that could fit it. Of course he had a say in the positions that needed to be covered, but he didn't get the names that he wanted. He wanted Sandro, but got Alonso & Palmeri. He wanted Koulibaly, but got Luiz. He wanted Dzeko, but got Giroud. In most of the situations, the positions he needed cover for got covered, but not by the names that he wanted. I think that's the issue. 

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5 minutes ago, Cosmin said:

@Tomo - he came here with a philosophy and asked for players that could fit it. Of course he had a say in the positions that needed to be covered, but he didn't get the names that he wanted. He wanted Sandro, but got Alonso & Palmeri. He wanted Koulibaly, but got Luiz. He wanted Dzeko, but got Giroud. In most of the situations, the positions he needed cover for got covered, but not by the names that he wanted. I think that's the issue. 

That's a fair enough point but we are hardly talking amateur's here and those players were probably still reasonably high on his list. 

7 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Luis Enrique is the sort of manager you'd see someone like Everton or another midtable club appoint. A smaller club that thinks "this guy managed Messi and Barca, he'll do wonders here!" In reality, and much like Zidane at Real Madrid, you could've put AVB on the touchline and won with the sides they had.

Enrique has shown nothing to suggest he's ready for a job like Chelsea. Especially at a time where we'll need to compete with so many other rivals that have established, top class managers who will have been at their clubs for years. This is why we either have to keep Conte or appoint a proven manager. Enrique would be a huge gamble that I feel would fail miserably.

Not that Enrique is my first choice but that's an incredibly harsh assessment, he may have had MSN but to win a treble then a double shows he's clearly got something about him and solely crediting the team can only work to a point.

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Actually think Van Gaal would be interesting one. Of course it's tricky choice, but I think Conte made all too complicated. Van Gaal personality could do good work here.

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Not that Enrique is my first choice but that's an incredibly harsh assessment, he may have had MSN but to win a treble then a double shows he's clearly got something about him and solely crediting the team can only work to a point.
If our players can win CL semi finals + a final without a manager, I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Barcelona's players, not managers, have lead them since Guardiola left.

Barcelona's players must be something like 85% responsible for each win, with the manager contributing just marginally. Enrique may have got to choose the presentation of the cake, but he was not responsible for it's quality and consistency.

Managing Chelsea players is nothing like managing theirs. We don't even judge managers based on their time with Barcelona anymore; it's almost unanimous that they flatter to deceive.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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57 minutes ago, sainttourist said:

Actually think Van Gaal would be interesting one. Of course it's tricky choice, but I think Conte made all too complicated. Van Gaal personality could do good work here.

Please not Van Gaal. Terrible terrible option

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On 2/7/2018 at 0:49 PM, Mana said:

I have to say this and I'm one of his biggest critics: We should have kept hold of Bats.

Even though he's useless most of the time, when he has his game, he'll score. And we would never had to play false 9. We wouldn't have lost the manner like we did (actually I'm not so sure v. Watford, but still)

 

Morata, Giroud, Bats. Nice options to choose from.

 

we played a false 9 with bats on the bench so im not sure whats your point here

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