The Conte Thread

[calculatingInfinity 1,443]

Yep. I absolutely believe that with 2, maybe 3 signings, Chelsea would be one of the favorites for the league. The board is letting Conte down badly right now, and it will eventually lead to his sacking, no matter how unfair. Just imagine if we get one injury in the defense, or even worse, two injuries (or suspension) and it would all be a complete disaster back there.

 

 

[mccg 1,528]

1 hour ago, Tautvix said:

If we have got Nainggolan, Kalidou and a left back we would probably one of the main contenders for the title..

Or even imagine we had Ake,Christensen,stand up board and be accountable for once !

[Unionjack 7,531]

2 hours ago, Tautvix said:

If we have got Nainggolan, Kalidou and a left back we would probably one of the main contenders for the title..

We would rule the fuckin world!!

4 hours ago, Barbara said:

Did Conte even watch Burnley against Liverpool?

My patience is wearing thin with his insistence on playing Matic AND Oscar. We're playing a team that will sit and wait for us, and we have three fucking defensive players with Cesc - our only creative player - in the bench, playing at home nonetheless. I don't like comparisons in general, but Mourinho would have been crucified if he had opted for something like this.

I don't know if it's stupidity, stubbornness or any dressing room situation we aren't aware of,but one of these days Diego and Barbshuayi won't be able to rescue us in the eleventh hour because our manager insists on picking the wrong players to have in the pitch. We already have problems with the lack of good players, playing two of our worst players in midfield against a team that won't threaten us has me slamming my head on the wall.

I'm not advocating he should leave, that I'm unhappy with him or anything like that. I'm stating what is obvious to me: Conte has made mistakes in the lineup in all three matches we've played so far and it seems he's learned NOTHING from the previous two (especially against Watford). As if not having top players isn't enough, our coach insists on playing players that won't be needed for their defensive contributions (as if Matic has been contributing to anything, really) and leaving out the slightest spark of creativity we have, playing against a team that will sit and wait for us. 

Whats your thoughts now Barbara?

7 hours ago, kiwi1691 said:

How can you people call yourself Chelsea fans, you go around insulting the club and everyone who works there, I suggest you may need to find  an new club to support. 

 

Pathetic.

When you put years into something that you love you kinda earn the right to slag someone off that consistently fucks up. We support Chelsea as a club and not the individuals in it. So when we see someone whether they are on the board/manager/player or a ball boy then of course we are going to vent our rage towards them.

Every club throughout the world gets the same from their supporters if they care enough.

[mccg 1,528]

If we don't defensive improvements before window shuts tut tut,But take top4 and cup win then kick on big time!!! nxt season win da lot .

[Fernando 6,376]

Chelsea vs Liverpool is the first real test for Conte and the team. 

We shall see how things progress from now till then. 

[Barbara 15,149]

5 hours ago, NiclasCFC said:

Well this is awkward...

As if we had had any opponent today. I've watched United 2nd half too and was exactly the same. Burnley and Hull didn't play football today. Conte could have played himself and we would still have won.

Now, people who only see results will say it was a perfect lineup. I'm not talking about results. If we had the right players we would have scored eight (although we did could have scored a few more if Costa was sharper).

This is called opinion, I'm not sure some of you are familiar with the concept... I don't agree with the lineup, simple as that.

5 hours ago, Melanicus said:

We're playing with both Kante and Matic because our defense is fucking shit. I don't understand how people can't see it. Yes, we have to play like that even against Burnley because they are dangerous from counter attack.

Playing Cesc until we have this kind of defense is a suicide. And he is not even needed against teams that sit deep either. We won without him easily after all.

But we were playing Burnley at home for God's sake, not City in Manchester.

Burnley was even worse than I predicted them to be. Still Matic and Oscar played some very stupid balls a few times.

When the opposition is crappy is hard to say how much you did well and how much they did wrong.

Fact is, except for Kanté - which is a huge addition - we are exactly the same as last year in terms of team and approach (few differences). When the match started it just become even clearer we didn't need both Matic or Oscar - choose whoever you want, only one.

But I agree with whoever said they weren't as bad as they have been as of late.

5 hours ago, Adnane said:

@Barbara, Sorry, your agenda against Oscar and Matic is just ridiculous. 

They are nowhere as bad as they were last season ( no one in the team is ), and they have done the job in this stat of the season. 

Agenda is for teenagers, I'm way to old to have agendas. I have opinions based on simple logic. Whether my logic is the same as yours, Conte's, or whoever is a different story. Whether someone's logic is right or wrong, doesn't matter, it's their way to view things. I know reasonable debate is beyond many people's reach, but I will stand by my stance.

When did you guys become so reluctant (or lazy) to have an opinion and not just the old, tiring and useless common sense?

So I see, we win, everything is perfect, then when we don't many of you come complaining of exactly the same choices and players.

2 hours ago, Unionjack said:

 

Whats your thoughts now Barbara?

the same I posted during the match thread. Burnley didn't show up today. If anyone can't say they were awful in all things (defending, retaining the ball, attacking, counter-attacking) then I'm done here.

 

My point continues to be the same. Mourinho and others before him were heavily criticized for choices like this. This is criticism to his tactical choices today, had we had a decent opponent we would have scrapped a win (if as much) like we did the other two matches. He will stick to Matic, Oscar and Kanté for a long time it seems and when it starts to pay the obvious dividends it will pay (to the opponents) people will complain about it. Some matches will ask for a more cautious approach, today wasn't one of those.

A team that challenged Matic slightly had made him look clueless and useless just the other week. Oscar is unpredictable. Between poor and average he can be anything, with the odd good day every now and then. Go back a few months ago and this was consensus, but people will only see the results. To each their own.

Now I even had to read in the match thread that all we needed was Batman and Kanté and that reinforcements to our defense is just an extra. This is beyond sad - not the lineup, the lack of critical sense and thinking

[robsblubot 3,217]

Conte is very italian as is his playing style.

Fabregas will have a hard time playing for Comte and since I am not a fan of Fabregas, that works for me. Reckon that players with low intensity won't see many minutes. It's a long season though.

Really can't think of anything wrong with his starting lineups to be honest. It's still not good enough to challenge for anything, but that's hardly his fault.

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Barbara said:

Burnley didn't show up today.

Or was we just so good in posession and pressing high up that Burnley just couldn't play THEIR game? It was only last week they were all over the Scousers and they were supposedly going to give us a hard time.

I really was impressed that we are taking more shots on goal but we still need work on our finishing. We could have hit double figures but them last couple of steps fail us.

[Barbara 15,149]

2 hours ago, Unionjack said:

Or was we just so good in posession and pressing high up that Burnley just couldn't play THEIR game? It was only last week they were all over the Scousers and they were supposedly going to give us a hard time.

I really was impressed that we are taking more shots on goal but we still need work on our finishing. We could have hit double figures but them last couple of steps fail us.

that was one of the worst displays of football. I do believe we made them be even worse, but I think they had a great part on that. They're better defensively than that and we haven't gone unbeaten by them at the Bridge for 45 years by coincidence. They play their worst against us at home and today was a horrific display, helped by our quality, surely, but those things were symbiotic there, we helped them look worse and they helped us look better.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

6 hours ago, Barbara said:

As if we had had any opponent today. I've watched United 2nd half too and was exactly the same. Burnley and Hull didn't play football today. Conte could have played himself and we would still have won.

Now, people who only see results will say it was a perfect lineup. I'm not talking about results. If we had the right players we would have scored eight (although we did could have scored a few more if Costa was sharper).

This is called opinion, I'm not sure some of you are familiar with the concept... I don't agree with the lineup, simple as that.

But we were playing Burnley at home for God's sake, not City in Manchester.

Burnley was even worse than I predicted them to be. Still Matic and Oscar played some very stupid balls a few times.

When the opposition is crappy is hard to say how much you did well and how much they did wrong.

Fact is, except for Kanté - which is a huge addition - we are exactly the same as last year in terms of team and approach (few differences). When the match started it just become even clearer we didn't need both Matic or Oscar - choose whoever you want, only one.

But I agree with whoever said they weren't as bad as they have been as of late.

Agenda is for teenagers, I'm way to old to have agendas. I have opinions based on simple logic. Whether my logic is the same as yours, Conte's, or whoever is a different story. Whether someone's logic is right or wrong, doesn't matter, it's their way to view things. I know reasonable debate is beyond many people's reach, but I will stand by my stance.

When did you guys become so reluctant (or lazy) to have an opinion and not just the old, tiring and useless common sense?

So I see, we win, everything is perfect, then when we don't many of you come complaining of exactly the same choices and players.

the same I posted during the match thread. Burnley didn't show up today. If anyone can't say they were awful in all things (defending, retaining the ball, attacking, counter-attacking) then I'm done here.

 

My point continues to be the same. Mourinho and others before him were heavily criticized for choices like this. This is criticism to his tactical choices today, had we had a decent opponent we would have scrapped a win (if as much) like we did the other two matches. He will stick to Matic, Oscar and Kanté for a long time it seems and when it starts to pay the obvious dividends it will pay (to the opponents) people will complain about it. Some matches will ask for a more cautious approach, today wasn't one of those.

A team that challenged Matic slightly had made him look clueless and useless just the other week. Oscar is unpredictable. Between poor and average he can be anything, with the odd good day every now and then. Go back a few months ago and this was consensus, but people will only see the results. To each their own.

Now I even had to read in the match thread that all we needed was Batman and Kanté and that reinforcements to our defense is just an extra. This is beyond sad - not the lineup, the lack of critical sense and thinking

"If we had the right players we would have scored 8 goals."

The score could have entered double digits if it wasn't for lack of incisiveness and Heaton playing out of his mind. It was clear we stepped off the gas pedal once we scored the second goal. It wasn't the case of not choosing the right individuals.

Your statement regarding us having the same approach and way more importantly team couldn't be any more ridiculous. We are ever so different from Mourinho's team. This team can actually hold on to the ball for more than a minute(as seen against West Ham and today). Our press resistance is getting stronger day by day. Under Mourinho a throw in could be enough for us to lose possession. Our pressing itself can finally be called 'pressing' since we're actually pressing as a unit and we're doing it well.

The biggest improvement is the ability to create goal scoring chances in different ways. Last season under Mourinho I can barely recall any goals that weren't from set pieces, individual pieces of brilliance or major opponent mistakes. Conte actually trains his team to play attacking football. His understanding of movements in the opposition half is top notch. He made aveage players like Eder and Pelle look good because of this. Sure, Hazard is a major key to our attack but it's not like we can't score without him. There are significant improvements in regards to our attacking play. 

People are not 'seeing just results.' There are clear improvements which you seem to fail to see in the team in many different aspects which I have outlined above. At the same time, I think our supporters are not being blinded by results. I'm fairly certain everyone knows that there are certain gaping holes specifically at the back but to disregard the major improvements we have made due to the board not addressing the CB and LB issue is simply wrong. 

[Barbara 15,149]

2 hours ago, Hybrid Angel said:

"If we had the right players we would have scored 8 goals."

The score could have entered double digits if it wasn't for lack of incisiveness and Heaton playing out of his mind. It was clear we stepped off the gas pedal once we scored the second goal. It wasn't the case of not choosing the right individuals.

Your statement regarding us having the same approach and way more importantly team couldn't be any more ridiculous. We are ever so different from Mourinho's team. This team can actually hold on to the ball for more than a minute(as seen against West Ham and today). Our press resistance is getting stronger day by day. Under Mourinho a throw in could be enough for us to lose possession. Our pressing itself can finally be called 'pressing' since we're actually pressing as a unit and we're doing it well.

The biggest improvement is the ability to create goal scoring chances in different ways. Last season under Mourinho I can barely recall any goals that weren't from set pieces, individual pieces of brilliance or major opponent mistakes. Conte actually trains his team to play attacking football. His understanding of movements in the opposition half is top noth. He made aveage players like Eder and Pelle look good because of this. Sure, Hazard is a major key to our attack but it's not like we can't score without him. There are significant improvements in regards to our attacking play. 

People are not 'seeing just results.' There are clear improvements which you seem to fail to see in the team in many different aspects which I have outlined above. At the same time, I think our supporters are not being blinded by results. I'm fairly certain everyone knows that there are certain gaping holes specifically at the back but to disregard the major improvements we have made due to the board not addressing the CB and LB issue is simply wrong. 

All more than valid points, maybe when I said a few differences I got carried away.

I think our players are better drilled now, I have no doubts, but we have the same too cautious approach. The pressing is better and we have patterns when attacking now. As I said on his thread, I think Eden partially improved for simply being rid of Mourinho's presence, but mainly by Conte. 

But, pray and tell, why did we need Kanté, Matic and Oscar in that midfield yesterday? Burnley was never going to attack us, they would counter-attack and try to count on any defensive mistake to capitalize... but they were too poor even to force us any sort of mistakes.

Was Matic playing higher in the pitch than he did under Mourinho? I think definitely, but what was the point of having him in the first place? When I see the 4-14-1 formation I think of Burnley, Hull, WBA, then even Sunderland and Bournemouth - despite the black cats being a pain in the arse in recent years. I feel the need of only one holding MD, which for us is Kanté with the support of a more defensive player from the other four. I don't see the need for two. As the match went on, Oscar was staying more in the final third, but many times he was behind Matic. If we are going to rely on Matic to support our attack why not Fabregas or even RLC?

I'm not saying Matic and Oscar should never play for us (well, in theory if we want to be really big again we definitely need players much better than them, but that's beyond the point).  There was just no point. They didn't play any important defensive role there because - as predictable as it was - Burnley didn't demand it from us. Kanté - as he's been getting used to - handled their midfield and attackers quite well and needed - as anyone would - some support, but it was not that much exactly because opposition was poor. Now if you have a more creative or even technical player (the latter is rare in Cobhan nowadays), why not play them? To use the word everybody here loves (sarcasm), there was no need for balance. We could and should have done full throttle on them knowing the risks they were posing were too small. We may be in a bad moment compared to recent years and we may have finished 10th last season, but we aren't Liverpool yet (and hopefully never will be).

I must admit I get carried away easily when I'm making a point, overlooking other points. As you said, we've already changed some things (but the matches against the Hammers and especially Watford was a lot closer to some displays from last season than people want to admit). I do believe Conte is trading more cautiously right now because he's new to the league and all that jazz, but I still felt like when we actually had an opponent that played football, he had to fix his own mistakes and we barely scrapped wins against WHam and Watford. But this is all too new, I'm just frustrated of seeing us playing with certain players in certain matches.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

Have to agree with Barb here...am happy with the result and from the sound of it, the performance. But I hope Fabregas can work his way back into the starting eleven sooner rather than later. Without him, IMO we will be too reliant on Hazards explosiveness to unlock defences. Unless Oscar finally becomes the consistent performer we hoped he would become 2 yrs ago, it's a risk losing your only playmaker in Fabregas, by not giving him even a couple of mins and even bringing Pedro in to the team ahead of him.  Anyway I hope his insistence with keeping Fabregas on the bench is purely for tactical reasons ...to compensate for the weakness in our back 4. Hopefully with a new defender we will start seeing more exciting midfield lineups.

[Hybrid Angel 2,130]

4 hours ago, Barbara said:

All more than valid points, maybe when I said a few differences I got carried away.

I think our players are better drilled now, I have no doubts, but we have the same too cautious approach. The pressing is better and we have patterns when attacking now. As I said on his thread, I think Eden partially improved for simply being rid of Mourinho's presence, but mainly by Conte. 

But, pray and tell, why did we need Kanté, Matic and Oscar in that midfield yesterday? Burnley was never going to attack us, they would counter-attack and try to count on any defensive mistake to capitalize... but they were too poor even to force us any sort of mistakes.

Was Matic playing higher in the pitch than he did under Mourinho? I think definitely, but what was the point of having him in the first place? When I see the 4-14-1 formation I think of Burnley, Hull, WBA, then even Sunderland and Bournemouth - despite the black cats being a pain in the arse in recent years. I feel the need of only one holding MD, which for us is Kanté with the support of a more defensive player from the other four. I don't see the need for two. As the match went on, Oscar was staying more in the final third, but many times he was behind Matic. If we are going to rely on Matic to support our attack why not Fabregas or even RLC?

I'm not saying Matic and Oscar should never play for us (well, in theory if we want to be really big again we definitely need players much better than them, but that's beyond the point).  There was just no point. They didn't play any important defensive role there because - as predictable as it was - Burnley didn't demand it from us. Kanté - as he's been getting used to - handled their midfield and attackers quite well and needed - as anyone would - some support, but it was not that much exactly because opposition was poor. Now if you have a more creative or even technical player (the latter is rare in Cobhan nowadays), why not play them? To use the word everybody here loves (sarcasm), there was no need for balance. We could and should have done full throttle on them knowing the risks they were posing were too small. We may be in a bad moment compared to recent years and we may have finished 10th last season, but we aren't Liverpool yet (and hopefully never will be).

I must admit I get carried away easily when I'm making a point, overlooking other points. As you said, we've already changed some things (but the matches against the Hammers and especially Watford was a lot closer to some displays from last season than people want to admit). I do believe Conte is trading more cautiously right now because he's new to the league and all that jazz, but I still felt like when we actually had an opponent that played football, he had to fix his own mistakes and we barely scrapped wins against WHam and Watford. But this is all too new, I'm just frustrated of seeing us playing with certain players in certain matches.

 I sort of agree, imo the reason Matic keeps starting is that he is the only one who can help out Kante defensively. If we had someone like Nainggolan who offers plenty both defensively and offensively nobody would be talking about being over-defensive in the middle of the park. About the decision to play Matic specifically against Burnley, to be fair I think Conte saw Burnley's performance against Liverpool and predicted we would have the same amount of possession Liverpool had, and the way Burnley countered against Liverpool with the two very decent strikers they have up top who could cause havoc if they went head to head with Cahill and Terry. I think Conte was trying to protect the back 4 rather than try to create a balance in midfield against a shambolic Burnley side. Tbf to Matic and Kante, they stopped a lot of attacks and recovered a lot of loose balls, but maybe that was because Burnley couldn't pass to save their lives. 

Overall I'm with you in a sense that I think we should do much better than the current midfield however I'm not fully confident with going into a match with a midfield of Kante-Oscar-Fabregas, no matter who the opponent is.

I agree about players starting that should'n't start. If it were up to me, I would pay whatever it takes to get Nainggolan. He is magnificent. A midfield with Kante-Nainggolan-Oscar/Fabregas would be elite imo. The thing I'm most pissed off about is how Ivanovic is still starting for this club. I swear if someone at the end of last season told me he would be a starter come the next season I would shoot myself. The LB and CB issues have been evident for ages, especially CB which has been a glaring hole in this club for ages. When was the last time we had a top CB? I still believe we're expecting Conte to perform a miracle with his current squad if we're expecting a title challenge.

[Polo7 3,496]

Cant believe people are complaining after a convincing victory. These where the teams we were struggling against last season.

 

[killer1257 3,282]

1 hour ago, Polo7 said:

Cant believe people are complaining after a convincing victory. These where the teams we were struggling against last season.

 

There is a reason why people are complaining.Yesterday,we had a good game,but let´s be honest with ourselves,we only did perform that good due to Hazard´s tremendous performance.If Hazard didn´t play well yesterday,we would have really struggled to create some chances.Our whole game depends on Hazard´s form and that is not good enough against bigger teams,who are much more capable to cause Hazard some trouble.

Matic technique is not good enough and Oscar is just not creative enough,so just bench Oscar for Cesc and replace Mikel for Matic.Mikel is not the best at going forward,but he does his job at defending and he offers good fast passes,while Matic struggles with that,so we need to fix our problems.If Mikel does not deliver,Chalobah played really well in his pre season games,so why not give him a fair chance?

[The Skipper 20,593]

Well, it's clear to me that if we give Conte a proper team we'll be big title contenders. We still need more players to improve the defence and get someone in that'll reduce the pressure on Hazard. 

[Fernando 6,376]

51 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Well, it's clear to me that if we give Conte a proper team we'll be big title contenders. We still need more players to improve the defence and get someone in that'll reduce the pressure on Hazard. 

I don't think we will get players that are Conte priority this late in the transfer window. We will just get left over. 

 

[Antonio8 736]

impossible to play with terry cahill ivanovic and win with clean sheet  cit.

you don't know who conte is..