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Fulham Broadway

The Mourinho Thread

Started by Fulham Broadway,

In your analogy, Mourinho isn't the CEO is he? That would be Roman and the board so doesn't a lot of what you're saying pertain to them?

I'm intrigued though as to what the right direction is because I'm fucked if I know? Is it the old 'Barcelona-lite' thing where we try and copy them so people really like us?

What is the right direction for Chelsea now?

Well he is not the CEO, he is a levels below that. But it doesn't change a thing. He is in charge of his players.

Sure the board is to be blamed too, ultimately they hired Mourinho so his failing is their failing. Mourinho was very toxic in this whole situation so he had to go. Don't get me wrong i think there should be a change in hierarchy, like whos decision was it to hire mourinho and the direction the club has taken over the years.

Usually in American sports the person who hires the coach/manager is also sacked when the coach is also sacked. They are both tied to their success and failures. I don't like that about Chelsea, managers get fired left and right but the person above him never take responsibility.

What is the right direction? vaguely the right direction is getting a manager who is well suited to get the best out of his players. I can name a few managers, but i have no decision in this process. so pointless to throwout names.

zolayes likes this

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An interesting question to you here:

Do you genuinely believe that Jose is more or less guilt free and that our bad showings doesn't have much to do with his tactics and how he sets up and selects the team? Do you actually believe the players are performing bad because they want Mourinho sacked? That's just too simplistic a view to take.

Who was waiting in the wings to push them? Let's talk about the deals that were mooted - was JT worrying about the sun setting on his career because John Stones was waiting there to pounce? Do you think he's turned up to training once, seen Djilobigi's second-hand Peugeout 206 and thought he might get dropped for him?

Or how about the second-coming of Lampard, Paul Pogba, smashing them in from 30 yards as Fabregas languished on the bench?

We stood still and when you do that you get overtaken.

Many of us won't forget that we're here to support the club we love on Saturday either. I'm very sure of it. Yes, we love Mourinho and what he's done for the club but we love our club more, and we love watching us play regardless of what's going on. That's the attitude and atmosphere I hope to see at the Bridge on Saturday.

What is the club you love? Is it the badge? Is it the stadium? Or is it the people?

Now tell me a person more important to this club's identity over the last 20 years than Jose? We were already disliked by a lot of rivals yet we had a chip on our shoulders because of where we were based. Now you have a manager who takes all of that and turns it up to 11. You think we're arrogant, well here's the special one. You think we're nouveau riche scum well fuck you, we're going to stop you playing and then destroy you.

What's more amazing is that people think the board will back whomever they place in the seat (for the next 18-24 months) next whilst they try and fabricate some 'Barcelona-lite' ideology of beautiful football.

nullabletype likes this

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damn fuck but this is actually killing me.

i was the among the first ones to turn on him. i did it right after the wba line up came out. still cant believe he played iva and cesc. still cant believe he continued playing them for so LONG.

how did it come to this. we won the fucking PL just 6 months ago. seriously cant believe all of this.

seems like the worst fucking nightmare.

I still love you jose. always have and always will.

thank you for everything.

Shaan, Mana and ZOS like this

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I was, and I went to plenty of games at the Bridge during that time as well. I was one of Benitez's biggest critics. It certainly does not feel like that at all to me. I agree that Jose is a very important person at Chelsea and definitely helped starting the CFC revolution last decade but that doesn't automatically mean he's above everything this club is about.

What is this club about? Because, frankly, I'm not sure anymore.

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Well he is not the CEO, he is a levels below that. But it doesn't change a thing. He is in charge of his players.

Sure the board is to be blamed too, ultimately they hired Mourinho so his failing is their failing. Mourinho was very toxic in this whole situation so he had to go. Don't get me wrong i think there should be a change in hierarchy, like whos decision was it to hire mourinho and the direction the club has taken over the years.

Usually in American sports the person who hires the coach/manager is also sacked when the coach is also sacked. They are both tied to their success and failures. I don't like that about Chelsea, managers get fired left and right but the person above him never take responsibility.

What is the right direction? vaguely the right direction is getting a manager who is well suited to get the best out of his players. I can name a few managers, but i have no decision in this process. so pointless to throwout names.

So we fit the manager to the players?

The person above Jose is Roman, despite us having a board. In fact the only person who has come close to challenging what he wants from the team is Jose.

Look at United, they were defined by Matt Busby and Alex Ferguson. Arsenal were defined by Wenger. Barcelona are defined not by a president who is elected, but by an overarching philosophy that is based in La Masia.

What are we defined by? What is our identity? 20 years ago (and in the 1970s too) we were this fashionable, stylish team that people actually liked watching. We were also flimsy and couldn't last 38 games, so were essentially a very good cup team and a good bet to finish top 6.

Now we are whatever Roman wants us to be, except he doesn't really know either.

Going back to La Masia though, if people want us to find an identity in the youth team then they're very much built in the mould of Jose. At least when City decided they wanted to be the English Barcelona they went all in and even found time to back Pellegrini.

I have no fucking idea what Chelsea wants to be. That is the most worrying thing of all.

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we were never DESPISED before Mourinho

I know some people want to forget the 80s but unfortunately they happened. We were hated (mostly because we had a lot of really not nice people at the Bridge) and Rick Astley was a real thing.

Now if you get to the 90s when Hoddle takes over, everything changes. But let's not pretend we went from Osgood, Cooke and Bonetti to Gullit, Vialli and Zola without some stuff in between.

LDN Blue likes this

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It is not a poor narrative, it is a stupid and deluded narrative. This is even more a stupid narrative than it could be because the same people seems to associate this narrative (i.e. 'player power') with the narrative of 'players being no leaders, being spineless, being pussies'.

This association of narratives is extremely incoherent and stinks 'desilusion' and 'bad faith'. How can a pussy on the pitch suddenly turns out to be a grade-A lobbyist as soon as they enter the dressing room ? They simply don't. Drogba, Lampard, Essien, Cole, Terry — they were the definition of 'player power' (ask Scolari and AVB). Though they were also 'leaders' and had 'passion'. That's just like with Ramos and Casillas : they were the 'player power' at Madrid, but they were also 'leaders' and were 'Madrid'.

So once again I ask the question, how can our spineless bunch of players can have any sort of power ? And we are not talking about having a 'little' power, we are talking about having a 'lot' of power. Because it concerns Mourinho for Christ's sake. Even an icon such as Casillas has had his career ruined in the process of getting Mourinho out. And if we analyze our previous 'player power', we can realize that it took Lampard, Cole and Essien to fire a mere nobody such as André Villas-Boas. The problem here is that, none of our player have the status that Lampard/Essien/Cole had (and I am not sure that any of them, except maybe Hazard will reach this status) ; and in term of status, Villas-Boas is a nobody compared to Mourinho.

I really find it difficult to believe that our squad has enough power to get Mourinho sacked. Not only that, I also believe that a lot of them are simply not clever enough to do that... I mean, could you picture Ramires scheming a plan to get Mourinho axed ? Really ? And he's not the only one in this case. Moreover, a lot of players own too much to Mourinho to act against him. With Benitez, Terry was out of the picture and that's Mourinho who reinstated him as the undroppable leader. Ivanovic has been made vice-captain and has a free-pass — with most managers he would have been associated with Terry on the bench. Mikel, he collects checks because of Mourinho. Ramires can still miss passes in a Chelsea shirt because of Mourinho. Zouma, that is Mourinho who introduced him in the team. Oscar, he can go on to hide himself on football pitches because Mourinho saw him as his n°10. I could go on and on.

As you and many others have already described, when you see our players play, you can see no difference in 'passion' between last year when we were Champions and this year when we are 'zero'. They run just as much, they tackle just as much, they give effort just as much. No, on the contrary, what one could witness, it is a good-willed bunch of players that are lost. They want to success, but nobody tells them how to do and unfortunately 'pass the ball to Hazard' is not working any longer. They are also lost because that is a situation extremely difficult to handle for newly crowned champions — and throwing them under the bus is definitely not the solution.

And finally, when we talk about 'Mourinho having lost the dressing-room', this is not about a bunch of rebels that strike 'Mourinho out'. It only means that the dressing-room not longer responded to him because his methods and 'pedagogy' no longer worked on them. Simply enough. So yeah, if you want to create a football version of 'Game of thrones', the 'player power' is the narrative you should use — but unfortunately for us, most often than not, reality is really un-exciting.

Indeed. Great post as always Peace.

Peace. likes this

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It is not a poor narrative, it is a stupid and deluded narrative. This is even more a stupid narrative than it could be because the same people seems to associate this narrative (i.e. 'player power') with the narrative of 'players being no leaders, being spineless, being pussies'.

This association of narratives is extremely incoherent and stinks 'desilusion' and 'bad faith'. How can a pussy on the pitch suddenly turns out to be a grade-A lobbyist as soon as they enter the dressing room ? They simply don't. Drogba, Lampard, Essien, Cole, Terry — they were the definition of 'player power' (ask Scolari and AVB). Though they were also 'leaders' and had 'passion'. That's just like with Ramos and Casillas : they were the 'player power' at Madrid, but they were also 'leaders' and were 'Madrid'.

So once again I ask the question, how can our spineless bunch of players can have any sort of power ? And we are not talking about having a 'little' power, we are talking about having a 'lot' of power. Because it concerns Mourinho for Christ's sake. Even an icon such as Casillas has had his career ruined in the process of getting Mourinho out. And if we analyze our previous 'player power', we can realize that it took Lampard, Cole and Essien to fire a mere nobody such as André Villas-Boas. The problem here is that, none of our player have the status that Lampard/Essien/Cole had (and I am not sure that any of them, except maybe Hazard will reach this status) ; and in term of status, Villas-Boas is a nobody compared to Mourinho.

I really find it difficult to believe that our squad has enough power to get Mourinho sacked. Not only that, I also believe that a lot of them are simply not clever enough to do that... I mean, could you picture Ramires scheming a plan to get Mourinho axed ? Really ? And he's not the only one in this case. Moreover, a lot of players own too much to Mourinho to act against him. With Benitez, Terry was out of the picture and that's Mourinho who reinstated him as the undroppable leader. Ivanovic has been made vice-captain and has a free-pass — with most managers he would have been associated with Terry on the bench. Mikel, he collects checks because of Mourinho. Ramires can still miss passes in a Chelsea shirt because of Mourinho. Zouma, that is Mourinho who introduced him in the team. Oscar, he can go on to hide himself on football pitches because Mourinho saw him as his n°10. I could go on and on.

As you and many others have already described, when you see our players play, you can see no difference in 'passion' between last year when we were Champions and this year when we are 'zero'. They run just as much, they tackle just as much, they give effort just as much. No, on the contrary, what one could witness, it is a good-willed bunch of players that are lost. They want to success, but nobody tells them how to do and unfortunately 'pass the ball to Hazard' is not working any longer. They are also lost because that is a situation extremely difficult to handle for newly crowned champions — and throwing them under the bus is definitely not the solution.

And finally, when we talk about 'Mourinho having lost the dressing-room', this is not about a bunch of rebels that strike 'Mourinho out'. It only means that the dressing-room not longer responded to him because his methods and 'pedagogy' no longer worked on them. Simply enough. So yeah, if you want to create a football version of 'Game of thrones', the 'player power' is the narrative you should use — but unfortunately for us, most often than not, reality is really un-exciting.

So good to have someone who articulates their thoughts as well as you do.

Good to have you posting more again.

Peace. likes this

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@wehatescouse - Has your mate at the training ground got any inside info on who's the replacement. He's been a diamond for me previously?

xPetrCechx likes this

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It is not a poor narrative, it is a stupid and deluded narrative. This is even more a stupid narrative than it could be because the same people seems to associate this narrative (i.e. 'player power') with the narrative of 'players being no leaders, being spineless, being pussies'.

This association of narratives is extremely incoherent and stinks 'desilusion' and 'bad faith'. How can a pussy on the pitch suddenly turns out to be a grade-A lobbyist as soon as they enter the dressing room ? They simply don't. Drogba, Lampard, Essien, Cole, Terry they were the definition of 'player power' (ask Scolari and AVB). Though they were also 'leaders' and had 'passion'. That's just like with Ramos and Casillas : they were the 'player power' at Madrid, but they were also 'leaders' and were 'Madrid'.

So once again I ask the question, how can our spineless bunch of players can have any sort of power ? And we are not talking about having a 'little' power, we are talking about having a 'lot' of power. Because it concerns Mourinho for Christ's sake. Even an icon such as Casillas has had his career ruined in the process of getting Mourinho out. And if we analyze our previous 'player power', we can realize that it took Lampard, Cole and Essien to fire a mere nobody such as André Villas-Boas. The problem here is that, none of our player have the status that Lampard/Essien/Cole had (and I am not sure that any of them, except maybe Hazard will reach this status) ; and in term of status, Villas-Boas is a nobody compared to Mourinho.

I really find it difficult to believe that our squad has enough power to get Mourinho sacked. Not only that, I also believe that a lot of them are simply not clever enough to do that... I mean, could you picture Ramires scheming a plan to get Mourinho axed ? Really ? And he's not the only one in this case. Moreover, a lot of players own too much to Mourinho to act against him. With Benitez, Terry was out of the picture and that's Mourinho who reinstated him as the undroppable leader. Ivanovic has been made vice-captain and has a free-pass with most managers he would have been associated with Terry on the bench. Mikel, he collects checks because of Mourinho. Ramires can still miss passes in a Chelsea shirt because of Mourinho. Zouma, that is Mourinho who introduced him in the team. Oscar, he can go on to hide himself on football pitches because Mourinho saw him as his n°10. I could go on and on.

As you and many others have already described, when you see our players play, you can see no difference in 'passion' between last year when we were Champions and this year when we are 'zero'. They run just as much, they tackle just as much, they give effort just as much. No, on the contrary, what one could witness, it is a good-willed bunch of players that are lost. They want to success, but nobody tells them how to do and unfortunately 'pass the ball to Hazard' is not working any longer. They are also lost because that is a situation extremely difficult to handle for newly crowned champions and throwing them under the bus is definitely not the solution.

And finally, when we talk about 'Mourinho having lost the dressing-room', this is not about a bunch of rebels that strike 'Mourinho out'. It only means that the dressing-room not longer responded to him because his methods and 'pedagogy' no longer worked on them. Simply enough. So yeah, if you want to create a football version of 'Game of thrones', the 'player power' is the narrative you should use but unfortunately for us, most often than not, reality is really un-exciting.

I love you and your posts.
Peace. likes this

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To be fair all this feels like a reset for me.

We can start afresh and focus on what we really want.

If you think this is bad, then how do you think Juventus felt when they got relegated?

But their board did great work and found a young manager to bring them back to relevance.

I think in time we can get back to that feel good attitude we once had buy these coming months are going to be tough.

If the board do a good business between now and summer it might help lighten the pain.

We should learn from Juventus in times like this.

ZOS likes this

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