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DavidEU

Nemanja Matic

Started by DavidEU,

4,214 posts in this topic
8 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

 

And what are they saying about Nemanja? Are they still raving about him or is that delusion crumbling too?

I haven't checked his thread on Cafe but a few weeks ago i was branded delusional by a United fan on a night out when i said he wasn't all that post NYD 2015, so if he's anything to go by i would say they are still in the honeymoon phase.

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If he had played like that for us his last 2 years here, he would not have been allowed to leave. Still selling him was the right decision. Replacing him with Bakayoko and Drinkwater was bullshit tho.

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1 hour ago, Magic Lamps said:

If he had played like that for us his last 2 years here, he would not have been allowed to leave. Still selling him was the right decision. Replacing him with Bakayoko and Drinkwater was bullshit tho.

Selling him was incredibly stupid. Regardless of who we replaced him with, he has a good balance of technical and physical attributes and in certain games (like today) they would of been very useful. Today for them he was pretty fucking good. Like arguably the best player on the pitch. 

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On February 25, 2018 at 7:51 PM, OneMoSalah said:

Selling him was incredibly stupid. Regardless of who we replaced him with, he has a good balance of technical and physical attributes and in certain games (like today) they would of been very useful. Today for them he was pretty fucking good. Like arguably the best player on the pitch. 

In the second half he was good, the first he was horrific.

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50 minutes ago, Tomo said:

In the second half he was good, the first he was horrific.

Honestly thought he was good in the football or first half too. Always seemed to be in right place. Obviously second half he went up another level as they did but 

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On 2/25/2018 at 11:51 AM, OneMoSalah said:

Selling him was incredibly stupid. Regardless of who we replaced him with, he has a good balance of technical and physical attributes and in certain games (like today) they would of been very useful. Today for them he was pretty fucking good. Like arguably the best player on the pitch. 

yup it was... esp to United.

Many here warned that Matic was severely underrated, showcased by opinions as well as stats (including MotM performances in tight games). But folks thought it would be simple to replace him.

It is definitely not simple to replace a player like Matic because he is a quality player. No, not a world beater, but to replace him you either have to lure one of the other quality midfielders out there, or make bets (like we did with Bakayoko).

I'm glad their defense is poor and that they end up playing Ashley Young more often than not. That will limit them for a while... prob at least until a less conservative manager takes over.

 

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One good game isn't good enough, especially in a game where he was playing vs his old team, so obviously more hyped up to impress. Matic also had good games with us, but he also had more poor games where he let the game pass him by. Football is the long game, so long term Matic won't be a loss. It is only because he has a stand out game vs us that people rave on about him; the same as they do about Lukaku. 

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On 27. 2. 2018 at 1:04 AM, It's too big said:

One good game isn't good enough, especially in a game where he was playing vs his old team, so obviously more hyped up to impress. Matic also had good games with us, but he also had more poor games where he let the game pass him by. Football is the long game, so long term Matic won't be a loss. It is only because he has a stand out game vs us that people rave on about him; the same as they do about Lukaku. 

Tbh no one would miss Matic, Salah or KDB if we made proper investment and board had clue who to buy. You either have resources to buy top players or you have board that knows values of players you already have. We have neither.

Barca was forced to sell Neymar, but they got proper replacements and they dont look back.

We went backwards with sales of Matic, Kdb and Salah because we dont have better players in the team now.

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11 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Tbh no one would miss Matic, Salah or KDB if we made proper investment and board had clue who to buy. You either have resources to buy top players or you have board that knows values of players you already have. We have neither.

Barca was forced to sell Neymar, but they got proper replacements and they dont look back.

We went backwards with sales of Matic, Kdb and Salah because we dont have better players in the team now.

Yeah, normally you wouldn't miss the sale of an average player like Matic for such money, but compared to the dross we replaced him with we get the illusion of him being nigh world class. That's only because we are masters of regression and self-sabotage.

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2 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Tbh no one would miss Matic, Salah or KDB if we made proper investment and board had clue who to buy. You either have resources to buy top players or you have board that knows values of players you already have. We have neither.

Barca was forced to sell Neymar, but they got proper replacements and they dont look back.

We went backwards with sales of Matic, Kdb and Salah because we dont have better players in the team now.

You kinda contradict yourself here, well to me at least.

Your reasoning is that the players are easy to replace, if the board were good. I find that line of thought entirely unrealistic for the mere fact that however inapt our board may be, replacing quality players is NEVER easy. Matic was also an established player who was working well in a system, which makes him more valuable to the club. If it were that easy, then our inapt board would've replaced at least one of them adequately.

It's much easier for Barca to replace top players, because the aspiring top players all want to move there. They already signed Arthur Melo (21) for 30+ mi just because he wanted to go there so badly. They bought an option of sale, because the transfer market is closed... ;) 

Reading folks here talking about Salah is frankly sad.... :) Yes if you thought he was average when he was at chelsea (some of us did not!), just accept you missed it (I've plenty wrong about other players - Oscar for ex). Now not seeing what Salah is doing on the pitch is just the worst kind of blindness. :)

The club, esp its coaching staff should have had the quality to both see the potential and hold to the players. Managers, esp transient managers (which is what they are for us) should never have the last word on transfers.

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13 hours ago, Robguima said:

You kinda contradict yourself here, well to me at least.

Your reasoning is that the players are easy to replace, if the board were good. I find that line of thought entirely unrealistic for the mere fact that however inapt our board may be, replacing quality players is NEVER easy. Matic was also an established player who was working well in a system, which makes him more valuable to the club. If it were that easy, then our inapt board would've replaced at least one of them adequately.

It's much easier for Barca to replace top players, because the aspiring top players all want to move there. They already signed Arthur Melo (21) for 30+ mi just because he wanted to go there so badly. They bought an option of sale, because the transfer market is closed... ;) 

Reading folks here talking about Salah is frankly sad.... :) Yes if you thought he was average when he was at chelsea (some of us did not!), just accept you missed it (I've plenty wrong about other players - Oscar for ex). Now not seeing what Salah is doing on the pitch is just the worst kind of blindness. :)

The club, esp its coaching staff should have had the quality to both see the potential and hold to the players. Managers, esp transient managers (which is what they are for us) should never have the last word on transfers.

Matic is 28/29 and wanted to leave and we got 40 m out of him. That was no brainer. 

Losing salah is not a mistake. He will never score the way he is doing in our team. I have said multiple times, just watch 5 of Liverpool games and watch 5 of our games. It doesn't take a genius to see the massive difference in term of tempo and style. 

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1 hour ago, communicate said:

Matic is 28/29 and wanted to leave and we got 40 m out of him. That was no brainer. 

Losing salah is not a mistake. He will never score the way he is doing in our team. I have said multiple times, just watch 5 of Liverpool games and watch 5 of our games. It doesn't take a genius to see the massive difference in term of tempo and style. 

While I don’t completely disagree on Matic,  just the way he was replaced - not really talking bout the name but rather how uneventful it was.

I’m not a betting man, but could go all out on salah.. :)

salah will score until he retires... but if you only see the scoring, then well my point exactly. Have you ever seen hazard give so much in a game, run so much, and chase so much being the key player? I have not.

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6 hours ago, Robguima said:

While I don’t completely disagree on Matic,  just the way he was replaced - not really talking bout the name but rather how uneventful it was.

I’m not a betting man, but could go all out on salah.. :)

salah will score until he retires... but if you only see the scoring, then well my point exactly. Have you ever seen hazard give so much in a game, run so much, and chase so much being the key player? I have not.

I don't want hazard to run so much and chase, that is just detrimental for our team as hazard is our sole creator in the team whereas Liverpool does not play with creator at least after Coutinho left.

Again for me it come down to team setup and style. Salah is fantastic but he will not be as fantastic playing in slow tempo which we employ.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, communicate said:

I don't want hazard to run so much and chase, that is just detrimental for our team as hazard is our sole creator in the team whereas Liverpool does not play with creator at least after Coutinho left.

Again for me it come down to team setup and style. Salah is fantastic but he will not be as fantastic playing in slow tempo which we employ.

 

 

 

 

Nobody thrives in a slow tempo game. Football is a game of exploiting and closing down spaces, you don't get space by allowing the opponent to close you down all the time. We should be aiming to change that and make this team a platform where those kind of players can shine, including Hazard and everybody really.

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On 6. 4. 2018 at 7:21 PM, Robguima said:

You kinda contradict yourself here, well to me at least.

Your reasoning is that the players are easy to replace, if the board were good. I find that line of thought entirely unrealistic for the mere fact that however inapt our board may be, replacing quality players is NEVER easy. Matic was also an established player who was working well in a system, which makes him more valuable to the club. If it were that easy, then our inapt board would've replaced at least one of them adequately.

It's much easier for Barca to replace top players, because the aspiring top players all want to move there. They already signed Arthur Melo (21) for 30+ mi just because he wanted to go there so badly. They bought an option of sale, because the transfer market is closed... ;) 

Reading folks here talking about Salah is frankly sad.... :) Yes if you thought he was average when he was at chelsea (some of us did not!), just accept you missed it (I've plenty wrong about other players - Oscar for ex). Now not seeing what Salah is doing on the pitch is just the worst kind of blindness. :)

The club, esp its coaching staff should have had the quality to both see the potential and hold to the players. Managers, esp transient managers (which is what they are for us) should never have the last word on transfers.

Sorry, no I dont think its easy to replace top players. But its possible if you know were to look. And we had several windows of opportunities. Similar, we let go Robben once and we never looked back because we made proper changes. He turned into a brilliant brilliant player, better than any winger we had, but we still had quality team regardeless and no one missed Robben.

Its dissapointing that we didnt sign a single AM and we sold both Kevin and Oscar. If we had proper squad, it wouldnt matter how good KDB and Salah are. But it makes it difficult because our team is a mess and thats definately board fault.

As for Kdb or Salah, if you meant me, I was one of few who said we should keep them at any cost, especialy KDB who had great spell in Werder and he reminded me of Gerrard.

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15 hours ago, communicate said:

Matic is 28/29 and wanted to leave and we got 40 m out of him. That was no brainer. 

Losing salah is not a mistake. He will never score the way he is doing in our team. I have said multiple times, just watch 5 of Liverpool games and watch 5 of our games. It doesn't take a genius to see the massive difference in term of tempo and style. 

Either your priority is stay competitve or balance the books. Its obvious what Marina priority is. We got 40m...is that realy even a good argument? 40m is relative, because its all about how you spend it. I dont care at all how much we get for players honestly. What I care is that we stay on competitive level with good squad.

So if you ask me would I prefer 40m on Chelsea bank or Matic is squad, the answer is obvious. Chelsea has spend the money awfuly and, it realy doesnt matter if we got 40m for him, because we spend it unvisely. Matic might leave for nothing, wouldnt change the damn thing, because of our board incompetence. We also got 70m for Oscar. And while that was actualy a smart sale because Oscar was terrible, but where is his replacement? :lol: Its shame we didnt invest into new AM in all this time.

But does any other top club actualy give a shit about balances?

If its impossible to replace key player, and you want to stay competitive on highest level, then you simply dont sell the player. Even if its big offer and player is 28.

THE ONLY reason to sell Matic was that he wanted to leave personaly. There is nothing we can do after that point. We should make him happier long time before his request, which we failed.

But the fact that he was 28 and it was good offer means fuck all when you want to stay competitve. Im not talking just about Matic, but in general.

I do question what was realy going on, Conte wanted to keep Matic, but board sold him. So, if there was a chance to keep Matic, but the board decided the offer was too good, the board is absolutely stupid.

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On 6. 4. 2018 at 5:33 PM, manpe said:

Yeah, normally you wouldn't miss the sale of an average player like Matic for such money, but compared to the dross we replaced him with we get the illusion of him being nigh world class. That's only because we are masters of regression and self-sabotage.

Tbh Matic wasnt average. He wasnt world class, but more then dependable player. Chelsea fans and maybe even the board underestimated him big time. And obviously yeah we dont know how to replace him. We shot ourselves in the foot twice.

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6 hours ago, manpe said:

Nobody thrives in a slow tempo game. Football is a game of exploiting and closing down spaces, you don't get space by allowing the opponent to close you down all the time. We should be aiming to change that and make this team a platform where those kind of players can shine, including Hazard and everybody really.

It is more about the style. Klopp team has always been very explosive, his dortmund teams were very similar. 

Playing fast and aggressive is exciting but it come down to personel including player and manager. 

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55 minutes ago, BlueLyon said:

Either your priority is stay competitve or balance the books. Its obvious what Marina priority is. We got 40m...is that realy even a good argument? 40m is relative, because its all about how you spend it. I dont care at all how much we get for players honestly. What I care is that we stay on competitive level with good squad.

So if you ask me would I prefer 40m on Chelsea bank or Matic is squad, the answer is obvious. Chelsea has spend the money awfuly and, it realy doesnt matter if we got 40m for him, because we spend it unvisely. Matic might leave for nothing, wouldnt change the damn thing, because of our board incompetence. We also got 70m for Oscar. And while that was actualy a smart sale because Oscar was terrible, but where is his replacement? :lol: Its shame we didnt invest into new AM in all this time.

But does any other top club actualy give a shit about balances?

If its impossible to replace key player, and you want to stay competitive on highest level, then you simply dont sell the player. Even if its big offer and player is 28.

THE ONLY reason to sell Matic was that he wanted to leave personaly. There is nothing we can do after that point. We should make him happier long time before his request, which we failed.

But the fact that he was 28 and it was good offer means fuck all when you want to stay competitve. Im not talking just about Matic, but in general.

I do question what was realy going on, Conte wanted to keep Matic, but board sold him. So, if there was a chance to keep Matic, but the board decided the offer was too good, the board is absolutely stupid.

But Matic wanted to leave. That is the problem. Coutinho wanted to leave so Pool sold him. Walker wanted to leave, so spurs sold him. It happened to every team. Nobody wanted Matic to leave but if a player wanted to leave and you get the correct price you sell him. 

The biggest problem is not selling Matic but our signing. Forget Bakayoko and Morata. Those signing made sense. I am talking about drinkwater and Zappacosta. Those made 0 sense. I have said it since the end of last summer after we won the league , priority should be wing back and wing back. Alonso and Moses are serviceable but they can't be our starter. I have no problem with solid full back but you can't have just solid wing back. 

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