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Jason

Willian

Started by Jason,

6,936 posts in this topic

Melanicus, I personally don't think Willian won't play at number 10 too often for us because he's far more effective than Mata on the flanks.

I think he'll play opposite Hazard on the right flank.

The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

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The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently.

The Mak and Barbara like this

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Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently b

Willian is by no way better #10 than Mata. He is also faster, or should I say he has better acceleration than Mata and better dribbler of the ball. He is certainly more suited as a wide attacking midfielder, but those quotes by Mourinho saying that he wants his left footed players to play on the right made me think that it will be Mata playing on the right side.

But you never know really, Mourinho also said it was 'Rooney or bust' so we will see. By no means we can say that Willian isn't a good signing or that he won't help Chelsea in this season.

The Skipper and Barbara like this

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What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us :fainthv9:

The Skipper and mediator like this

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What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us :fainthv9:

dont forget rammy bombing forward too

kellzfresh likes this

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What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us :fainthv9:

I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

Barbara likes this

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I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

Oscar in the middle please. Now that we have Willian, Schurrle, KdB, no more of Oscar on the flanks

I know but that formation would be a countering heaven

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Ah okay. Against what kinds of teams?

Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

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Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

That's a terrible way to play to be honest, I really, highly, doubt that Mourinho's going to be playing this way.. Which is why I don't imagine Willian is going to displace Schurrle.

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That's a terrible way to play to be honest, I really, highly, doubt that Mourinho's going to be playing this way.. Which is why I don't imagine Willian is going to displace Schurrle.

TBF, kellzfresh did mention Mourinho might line up that way and play on the counter for some games.

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TBF, kellzfresh did mention Mourinho might line up that way and play on the counter for some games.

Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

This is true!

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The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently.

Willian is by no way better #10 than Mata. He is also faster, or should I say he has better acceleration than Mata and better dribbler of the ball. He is certainly more suited as a wide attacking midfielder, but those quotes by Mourinho saying that he wants his left footed players to play on the right made me think that it will be Mata playing on the right side.

But you never know really, Mourinho also said it was 'Rooney or bust' so we will see. By no means we can say that Willian isn't a good signing or that he won't help Chelsea in this season.

If I had to rate the players work-rate and defence production I'd rate Mata at 5 and Willian at 6.5 - and I feel like being nice to Mata with that 5 rating.

On the bold parts I think you guys covered basically everything I'd cover myself.

Yes, his work rate is considerably better because he's more athletic, but also faster. He presses more than Mata does. So if the ball is lost in his territory he's the kind of guy that turns around quickly and starts pressing the ball. But he has a problem - sometimes he seems 'to forget' to do it, which is why he doesn't make the 7 rating imo. So the fact he's faster, more willing to press, and more athletic than Mata already puts him ahead of the Spaniard regarding this.

Also I agree with both of you who said Mata is much better a #10 than he is.

This may be an unpopular opinion - or maybe I don't make much sense - but at the end of the day it could be that Mata is splitting more matches with Willin in the RW than in the middle with Oscar. I may be wrong, but I feel like Oscar might be Mourinho's favorite player in the squad (although I think he rates Eden higher in terms of talent and potential). So unless Oscar starts playing sub-par or Mata changes completely his work rate from the last two seasons (Hazard himself improved a lot on it, already under Benitez, but more significantly already under Mourinho imo) I think Mourinho may favor a partnership of Oscar and Hazard + another and this 'another' could be Mata, Willian or Schürrle.

Of course there will be plenty of matches Oscar won't start and a few he might not play at all. The same may happen with Eden. But along with Cech, Luiz and Ramires, I think those two are going to be the players to start most matches for us this season. Ivan and Lamps might be close seconds and I think there will be some sort of more often rotation between Terry and Cahill. I think Eto'o will start a lot, but Mourinho won't give up on Fernando so soon and he has to allow Ba to play the odd match.

As for Mata I honestly don't know where he stands. I could be wrong in my Oscar assessment, but given what I know about Mou, what both him and Oscar had said about each other (especially Mou's words) I just feel like that.

Also let's look a bit to Mou's Madrid. Ronaldo was even worse at work rate than Mata is; di María was quite decent and even Benzema and Pipita pressed a lot. Ozil really depended on the day. the biggest difference? Their pivot is much better at defending than ours. Although Lamps and Ramires are better than Khedira and Alonso in some things (Alonso is slow, Khedira distribution is awful - although Alonso makes up for it x10, they didn't offered much coming to the attack [scoring or assisting, except Xabi's eventual perfect cross]). Their counter-attack style relied on Alonso giving amazing long passes or Khedira passing to Alonso, di Maria, Ronaldo or Ozil. Because of the quality of their AM and Xabi's passing their transition was smooth and worked in the counter. But their pressing was high and good with the exception of Ronaldo.

We don't have the same pressing quality - yet, I guess, but it'll come and I guess soon - but mainly we don't have a double pivot as solid defensively as Alonso-Khedira imo. Rami-Lamps are more b2b players with above the average attacking resources, but not exactly defending. We need our AM to press and tackle more than RM did because of that. Again, it's only my opinion and take on this. That favors Oscar style and the reason why I think Mou keeps affording Lamps in the team.

I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

Oscar in the middle please. Now that we have Willian, Schurrle, KdB, no more of Oscar on the flanks

Yep. No matter if he's in the bench or starting he has to play in the middle. We have plenty of options for the wings now and Willian is really good with both feet so he can alternate positions with Eden during the match more naturally than Oscar does.

semiller1313 likes this

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Barbara - do you think that Mou would be willing to try out Oscar in the pivot? That would solve the problem with Mata not playing. On the other hand we would still need some defending I guess.

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Barbara - do you think that Mou would be willing to try out Oscar in the pivot? That would solve the problem with Mata not playing. On the other hand we would still need some defending I guess.

I don't think it passes through Mou's mind that in order to keep both him and Mata in the team, he'd have to move Oscar to the pivot, so Mata can be the CAM and have one of our wingers in the right wing. I don't think Mata is rated too highly with Mourinho - until he proves otherwise in the pitch (something Oscar already did), so I don't see him moving Oscar so deep because of Mata. If Mourinho decides Mata is better as an AM than Oscar I guess he'd be benched rather than go to the pivot. In addition to the reasons I'm about to explain to you, there's also the fact that it seems that Ramires-Lamps is untouchable under Mourinho for as long as Lamps can play.

There's one thing Mourinho absolutely loves in his players: his defenders being capable of distributing and what he calls 'building' and his attacking players to defend. Based on that I guess we'd never see Luiz in the DM or Oscar in the pivot except for injury issues or during a match when he's ran out of subs. Mourinho prefers a CB that can do the transition and distribute well rather than make this player a DM because it's sort of part of the job description of the DM position to have a good pass, so why waste a CB that has a 'plus' compared to others and make him look trivial or mediocre or just another guy in a position where that's normal?

The same applies to the attack. Why would he move one of his men attacking to the pivot and be average there - as players in the pivot are supposed to have good defensive skills, if he can have a guy with something else in the attack and that can offer him a sudden attack by tackling or intercepting the ball high in the pitch? He's said it many times in the past and since he arrived here, although he didn't touch the Oscar possibility - because nobody asked - he already made it clear that Luiz is a CB in his team and end of the story. The reasoning behind his choice is exactly the one I babbled presented to you. He does the same reasoning with attacking players - I'm trying to force my memory and see if I can remember someone he refused to do that in RM or Inter, but right now the closest case I can remember is Modric, but that's a bad example for many reasons (that we may talk about if you want) one of them being many people consider Modric more a midfielder than an attacking midfielder (I don't).

But I won't deny it's a possibility. I'm not sold at the idea though. Right now I'd say play him as an AM or don't play him at all, but to be completely sure of that I would need (all of us actually, I suppose) to see him playing there a few matches in a row. Felipão may play him there tomorrow - supposing he plays in the first place - as in the training session he was injured he was playing in the pivot.

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Thanks for the answer :) I think you are right in most of it which is a shame - I would really hate to leave either Oscar or Mata out of the starting eleven but I guess we will just have to get used to it :/

Barbara likes this

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