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BlueLion.

Fernando Torres

Started by BlueLion.,

16,203 posts in this topic

It's easy (and possibly fair) criticizing the club in hindsight but back when the move happened you could count the sceptical forum users on the fingers of one hand.

I think back then, all that "happiness" (do not know if it's the right word...) was more due to the fact that we were about to buy a big name and due to all media's stories/news around this transfert, than anything else.

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When we slate Torres lack of goals our other forwards have hardly been lighting up the world since he arrived either, since El Nino's arrival Anelka has only scored 3 goals and Drogba has only got 2 (mabye 3) so its obviously runs deeper than Torres just being "finished".

Great post! :yes:

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Those saying why do we need to build around Torres - because whether you like it or not, we paid £50 million for him to supposedly salvage our season. That one move indicated that he's the main man here and he'll continue to be so whether Drogba stays or goes. So let's think logically here - you make someone your focal point, next thing you do is go and build a team around him. This team and it's established set up is suited to Drogba who's more likely to find himself on the bench than on the pitch as things stand. Strangely enough this is not spoken about or pointed out nearly as often as it should be. Instead all the blame falls on Torres.

Fair enough £50m is alot of money and you expect bang for that kind of buck. But if anything it's the negotiators who should be blamed for facilitating that sort of deal. Torres didn't hang around Anfield holding a placard saying buy me for 50m. Don't know why he gets beaten with that stick.

It's never a good idea to build a team around a single player, let alone one who's performing a lot under-expectation.

We've given him support by signing the likes of Mata, Villas-Boas has let him start all our games so far, and yet he still isn't improving to the extent we hoped he would. Clearly his summer hasn't given him (or us) any more confidence in his abilities and so it's very dangerous to build a squad just to suit him.

We have other players ready to fill in for Torres who can make do with what we have. Sturridge comes to mind first..

lionsden likes this

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It's never a good idea to build a team around a single player, let alone one who's performing a lot under-expectation.

Like Tomo already pointed out, what have Drogba and Anelka done so far? They've been playing this system for years, meaning they should be banging in goals left, right, centre. But the midfield is just too uninspiring to create chances for the forwards. It's simply undeniable.

We've given him support by signing the likes of Mata, Villas-Boas has let him start all our games so far, and yet he still isn't improving to the extent we hoped he would.

How long did he and Mata play together for? 4 mins, maybe 5. No good buying those players if you're not going to play them together.

He was MOTM against Stoke, did quite well against WBA as well, despite the horrendous lack of service. Only disappointing outing so far has been the Norwich one, where Drogba didn't do any better either, but again nobody says anything at all about that.

We have other players ready to fill in for Torres who can make do with what we have. Sturridge comes to mind first..

Sturridge is not going to play as a striker, it's clear. That ship has sailed.

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@Tomo the worrying thing is Torres has actually had his chances and he has failed to score. How many times has he had a chance and we have all been at the edge of our seats and he has skied it. We can not just keep playing him hopping the Torres of old comes back because it ain't. Face it people we have been ripped off, 50 million pounds wow. Don't get me wrong i really hope you post this message and laugh at me if he does rediscover his form because nobody wants it more then me.

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Well let's be frank , Both sides of this ongoing argument are wrong , neither Torres looks like he will ever be the same El-nino of 2006-2008 again , nor do we provide any kind of service to our forwards from midfield and as Tomo pointed out just give one look at Drogba , Anelka to know how bad the service is !

Last year i have watched a player topping the scoring charts of the EPL , he scored almost the same no. of goals as the top scorer but only in half a season !! imagine who that player is .... It's Berbatov :huh: ,

my point is any striker should be scoring at least tap ins and easy goals every now and then but again i remember someone posting that torres didn't recieve a pass in or around the 18 yards box against west brom.

even the likes of Berbatov will be scoring week in week out if provided with the right service and playing in the right system , for god-sake even Kalou used to score a lot of goals during our peak with carlo (April , May , August 2010).

Don't expect Torres to return suddenly to be the player he once was but i will still have him rather than Berba , Dzeko ,welbeck or even Drogba right now.

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Like Tomo already pointed out, what have Drogba and Anelka done so far? They've been playing this system for years, meaning they should be banging in goals left, right, centre. But the midfield is just too uninspiring to create chances for the forwards. It's simply undeniable.

To be honest, I think the team that Villas-Boas is building isn't even for Torres. The creativity in midfield has been a long standing problem anyway, they're not in for just Torres but any striker we play. The purchase of Lukaku, shows we've got back-up plans should Torres continue to under perform.

How long did he and Mata play together for? 4 mins, maybe 5. No good buying those players if you're not going to play them together.

He was MOTM against Stoke, did quite well against WBA as well, despite the horrendous lack of service. Only disappointing outing so far has been the Norwich one, where Drogba didn't do any better either, but again nobody says anything at all about that.

Agree with most of that. However Drogba was thoroughly criticised for his performance too, just read through the thread. Obviously there's more sympathy because of what happened, but it doesn't change the fact he was just as bad, if not, worse.

Sturridge is not going to play as a striker, it's clear. That ship has sailed.

I still hold some faith of this happening. With Drogba KO'd & Lukaku heading out on loan, I see AVB giving him a chance ahead of Anelka & Kalou.

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Torres hasn't played well. The service he gets is abysmal. Negative reinforcing negative.

The thing is even when his form was off and when he was coming back from injuries, he was able to score for Liverpool. The service wasn't even all that great, but two things were guaranteed; Benetiz would play him plenty of minutes and Torres knew he would almost always get the ball whenever it was possible.

The drought has gone on for so long it's a burden on him, the team and as it's obvious here--the fans. I have no solution to offer other than to plead for a run of games where Torres is played in a system and with players that will highlight his strengths, not his weaknesses. Can we honestly say that's happened any time he's been at Chelsea? If he's still ineffective, then I can admit he and Chelsea were not meant to be. Diego Forlan was an abject failure at Man U and look at what he's done since joining La Liga. Sometimes a player and team just don't gel.

This link was posted yesterday, take a look at the analysis, they do point to issues that some of us have had for awhile but never quite quantified.

When Drogba and Torres were in the game at the same time against Norwich: Torres got 39% of his passes from the midfield and Drogba. That means 61% of the other passes came from four defenders. Four defenders passed more (by a lot) to the main striker than did the four midfielders and his partnering striker. I know Boswinga is one of them and he was quite aggressive on offense, but come on, there's something seriously amiss when Torres gets as many passes from Boswinga as he does from Lampard, Ramires and Malouda combined. I imagine if almost 2/3 of your passes are coming from the defenders, as a striker, you're probably not getting most of those passes in goal threatening areas.

Contrast that with Drogba getting 80% of his passes from the midfielders and Torres. So are the midfielders ignoring Torres? Simply a case of him and them being incompatible? They are simply used to playing with Drogba? Whatever it is, it's a huge problem and it's not a case of it only happening in one game.

I want Torres to come out and just kick ass on his own too. And yes, sometimes, you know, he should and needs to. But at the end of the day, he's a traditional #9, he needs help and he's never said so otherwise.

Tortilla9, Madmax and nofreakingway like this

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Sure Drogba and Anelka haven't been scoring much either, but they are not as useless as Torres when he's not scoring goals. The fact is Torres offers absolutely nothing when he's not scoring goals. At least Drogba is a threat in set-piece situations (at both ends) and creates plays for teammates by making a nuisance of himself or making beautiful passes.

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Sure Drogba and Anelka haven't been scoring much either, but they are not as useless as Torres when he's not scoring goals. The fact is Torres offers absolutely nothing when he's not scoring goals. At least Drogba is a threat in set-piece situations (at both ends) and creates plays for teammates by making a nuisance of himself or making beautiful passes.

Torres created at least one clear-cut-chance(Football Manager speak :eyebrows: ), his pass to Drogba, against Norwich and Drogba didn't create any(As far as I can remember).

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Norwich game - Torres wasn't great. Drogba wasn't great but it's generally and rightfully been overlooked because of his concussion. Midfield continues to be the Bermuda Triangle out there where attacks enter and never leave.

I just want to see the transfer window closed with hopefully a few new faces that can actually move the ball FORWARD. Once the dust settles let's see what happens. Like most I agree these 3 games haven't been wonderful displays of football. BUT let's take a deep breath (note to self) and focus on the marathon that's the season.

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Instead of blaming a player who surely until now not has performed as expected for whatever reason, how about start critize

your dear owners buying policy?, thats the fucking problem. And i says that as big fan of El Nino, he just came to late. Still hope

he get it done i dont think he is finished.

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What's done is done!

I was so against this guy coming for that amount.

We fucked up, so now we must do the best with him.

Yes I am piss that a 50M can't do much cause "he need a system".

But we freaking payed that much, so let's make it work.

At least if we give him all the chances, and if he still fucks up, then there will be no one else to blame.

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Torres worries me. He needs to just put in a great performance against someone shit like Arsenal, bang in 4 and say meh i'm ok. The more he goes without scoring, the more i'm getting agitated.

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Torres worries me. He needs to just put in a great performance against someone shit like Arsenal, bang in 4 and say meh i'm ok. The more he goes without scoring, the more i'm getting agitated.

Agreed. He's had some good performances, but without any goals, he's just a different player. His confidence built up during pre-season and I hope he has a positive year.

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I'm wondering whether we might see a partnership of Torres and Lukaku up front, that is if AVB will play them together, like with Drogba and Anelka a couple of seasons ago, they had that period where they were completely on fire and worked well together.

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