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BlueLion.

Oscar

Started by BlueLion.,

12,585 posts in this topic

His post-match interview - that one in the pitch - was heartbreaking. I just saw it. But his mixed zone interview was somber.

Luiz is very emotional, but he's also very resilient, he'll be ready as new Saturday, I'm positive.

Actually you're absolutely wrong. As far as the channels I've been watching, Luiz and César are the only praised - or spared - players - ESPN and social media. Fernandinho was to blame in 2 of the first 3 goals, that's it. Luiz didn't guard position at the third (or fourth, can't remember), but that's Luiz and the match was already lost, as we didn't have any idea what to do after the second - reason why in the next 4 minutes another 3 goals were scored.

Anyway, the idea I get from those places is that Luiz isn't being trashed at all. Brazilians love him and his commitment, they can overlook mistakes that aren't even being put on him, but mostly on fernandinho.

It is part of Luiz mistake of the first goal. One of the CB should have marked Muller. For the second, third, fifth, when they really need the CB to block player for shooting, yes Luiz is not make mistake there, because Luiz is not even in the box!

About the media, we might just read different kind of sources.

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"We're treating me to try to play the final match of the Premier League, but I have to take care for the World Cup. We still have two very important games in the Premier League because Chelsea can be champions, but it is important to rest because the World Cup is here." ... Oscar told Globo Sport, last season.

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It is part of Luiz mistake of the first goal. One of the CB should have marked Muller. For the second, third, fifth, when they really need the CB to block player for shooting, yes Luiz is not make mistake there, because Luiz is not even in the box!

About the media, we might just read different kind of sources.

I meant Brazilian media because you mentioned Brazilian media in your post and I corrected you on that. Haven't checked foreign, but saw some of it on ESPN.

He was one of the many players that could have marked Müller... why it was his exclusive responsibility when he was where most opponents were? I mean he could have done a better job - so could Gustavo, Dante or anyone else there. Then again why is it Luiz's fault alone?

As I said, Luiz plays with more freedom for Brazil and people just accept that. I know that style is unacceptable for many of you and I respect that, but we don't mind much. As I said he was the only player - along with César - spared by Brazilians (although many didn't spare anyone, but the only villains I see around on Twitter, FB, TV is Felipão and then Fernandinho). At the end of the day that's all that matters. Why should they care about what others think of them? Brazil doesn't see Luiz as a villain, but the closest to a hero, even today.

People have to stop blaming managers for everything. The team lost 7-1 at home. No team, with any formation should ever lose like that. People are complaining that Willian didn't start or why Fed plays or other changes. It would have made no difference. Brazil was destroyed. You think Scolari said "Hey Luiz, go walk around central midfield and don't mark your man?". "Hey Fernandinho, give the ball away to the opposition every chance you get?" Managers ultimately make very little difference overall. If a team loses 1-0, you can point to some tactical mistake or sub that seemed strange (which people still do too often) but at 7-1? It's 99% the players fault. They were, to a man, atrocious and they have to take responsibility for that.

have we ever showed any pattern, organization, tactical response or even a system throughout the whole WC? Of course the 7x1 is mostly on the players - the circumstances that led it to that are all on Felipão. Sorry to disagree, but should they start producing any football they haven't at all in this tournament when they finally faced an opponent that 1) wasn't afraid of us; 2) was actually good (sorry, but Mexico and Colombia aren't what I call good, just motivated and didn't even believe much they could win). There's a lot of merit to the German side here that shouldn't be ignored, But Brazil was a shame through and through with only the first half against Colombia and some moments against Chile salvageable. Good thing we've said as much before today.

Also, lol, have you been following Chelsea since Ancelotti left and before Mou came? Because we basically provided a field research about how a manager can fuck with a team. AVC (edit: oops, typo, AVB) wherever he goes? The list could go on and on.

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People have to stop blaming managers for everything. The team lost 7-1 at home. No team, with any formation should ever lose like that. People are complaining that Willian didn't start or why Fed plays or other changes. It would have made no difference. Brazil was destroyed. You think Scolari said "Hey Luiz, go walk around central midfield and don't mark your man?". "Hey Fernandinho, give the ball away to the opposition every chance you get?" Managers ultimately make very little difference overall. If a team loses 1-0, you can point to some tactical mistake or sub that seemed strange (which people still do too often) but at 7-1? It's 99% the players fault. They were, to a man, atrocious and they have to take responsibility for that.

I believe it's the opposite. When you lose by little, by details, that may be traced back to a player, to a mistake. When you can't even take the ball out of your defense if not for aimlessly shooting long balls forward and you have no presence in the midfield that's not on the players. Sides with way less quality could manage to give more trouble to this german side with proper management. More often than not, large scores like that are result of wrong management or HUGE skill gap. While it's true the german side had better talent, in no way it would translate in 7-1 if our team had proper management. Do you believe Argelia had a better squad? Nope, but they had a proper game plan and knew how to execute it. That way they gave the germans a run for their money. One could argue that the germans played this SF better than ever before in this tournament, and I would agree with that, but our team also has more quality than most teams Germany has beaten in their way to the semis so it should sort of even out. All that considering we had a team of course, not a bunch of players thrown on a pitch.

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I meant Brazilian media because you mentioned Brazilian media in your post and I corrected you on that. Haven't checked foreign, but saw some of it on ESPN.

He was one of the many players that could have marked Müller... why it was his exclusive responsibility when he was where most opponents were? I mean he could have done a better job - so could Gustavo, Dante or anyone else there. Then again why is it Luiz's fault alone?

As I said, Luiz plays with more freedom for Brazil and people just accept that. I know that style is unacceptable for many of you and I respect that, but we don't mind much. As I said he was the only player - along with César - spared by Brazilians (although many didn't spare anyone, but the only villains I see around on Twitter, FB, TV is Felipão and then Fernandinho). At the end of the day that's all that matters. Why should they care about what others think of them? Brazil doesn't see Luiz as a villain, but the closest to a hero, even tod

Sorry for the confusion about media. Yes for sure it is not only Luiz fault, all the back four and DM should take all the blame. Maybe I just spotted only Luiz who is out of position. But I have to somehow agree with this line quoted from newspaper,

'Had that back four, players who have Champions League pedigree with Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, Chelsea and Inter Milan, remained at their stations and stayed in position the score would have been 0-0 at half-time.

Instead they hared around the stadium, losing their minds and this game even before Thomas Muller struck Germanys opening goal in the 11th minute.'

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have we ever showed any pattern, organization, tactical response or even a system throughout the whole WC? Of course the 7x1 is mostly on the players - the circumstances that led it to that are all on Felipão. Sorry to disagree, but should they start producing any football they haven't at all in this tournament when they finally faced an opponent that 1) wasn't afraid of us; 2) was actually good (sorry, but Mexico and Colombia aren't what I call good, just motivated and didn't even believe much they could win). There's a lot of merit to the German side here that shouldn't be ignored, But Brazil was a shame through and through with only the first half against Colombia and some moments against Chile salvageable. Good thing we've said as much before today.

Also, lol, have you been following Chelsea since Ancelotti left and before Mou came? Because we basically provided a field research about how a manager can fuck with a team. AVC (edit: oops, typo, AVB) wherever he goes? The list could go on and on.

And we only looked good, as I said in the match thread, because they were not pressing our pivot / centre-backs, they were trying to defend too deep and passively. Also the ref giving every little foul and disrupting the game helped us quite a bit. Look at our toughest games. Mexico, Chile and Germany. All of them pressed us heavily in the transition from defense to midfield. Just watch them again. The only difference between those games is that Germany had a better side and knew what to do better and more dangerously after gaining possession. It was clear as day we had a problem building anything as a team.

Barbara likes this

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Serves them right. They had their heads in Brazil in February and cost us the title with their half assed performances. Suck shit to them. Glad we got rid of Luiz, his erratic style of defending finally caught up to him.

This. Totally agree. I am a Chelsea fan, club should always come first.

gary gordon and Melanicus like this

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^ very easy to say that, but if I'm an England international and the World Cup is coming home in 2026, I'd be thinking of nothing else than playing in that first game at Wembley Stadium, and going all the way to the final.

sherry33 likes this

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Bayern Munich recovered after we beat them on their own backyard and came back stronger than ever the following season. Now they suffered a 4-0 defeat at the Allianz to Real Madrid only a little while back and look how their German players are performing at the World Cup now.

People are underestimating the mental strength of professional footballers. I’m certain Oscar and the rest of the Brazil boys will take this as a lesson learnt and use this experience to drive them to bigger and better things in the future.

While I agree with your overall point that footballers can and do recover from massive setbacks, I don't think any of those losses compare to what happened last night. That was the most brutal, devastating loss of all time in my opinion. The manner of the failure in a game of that importance; no club defeat even comes close.

Absolutely gutted for Oscar at the end. He is going to need a long break.

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my personal assessment: he needs to be played in the position more fixed for him to develop further. It seems Mourinho knows he likes the #10 best, and Mourinho's tone seemed supportive imo, so I think he'll be given another chance. While I think he deserves another chance, I'm afraid the 7x1 may affect him much longer than the expectation about the WC did. He seems somewhat frail to deal with some certain kind of emotions.

I think he isn't ready to be our #10, the question is if we the fans and Mourinho are willing to give him a chance to grow. I think he's showed more than just a few glimpses of the quality he could offer as a #10, I don't know if he can consistently do those things and there's only one way to know.

I agree it's make or break at Chelsea. Maybe even if he fails here he could succeed in the position in a league such as the Spanish (can't imagine a team that would be good for him and that would want him) or even at PSG. I don't also write Italy off - but I'd like him to have another chance with us, in a season where the team is more stable. The question is: is Oscar emotionally stable enough to take that chance? I have no idea.

Won't Fabregas play the 10 role next year?

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I totally disagree. In 2002 when Brazil won the world cup it was SO CLEAR that Scolari had nothing to do with it. It was all up to the players and their individuality. The team had no tactics, like when they were under Zagalo or Carlos Alberto. In this world cup, since the start, everyone including Brazilians noticed that this team is not performing well. In group stages Brazil was playing LONG AIR BALLS ALL THE TIME. Brazilians do not do that. Marcelo is a good player, Luiz, is a good player, Alves and Silva too. But their defense looked shaky from the start. When players perform well in their club and under a new manager and style they look like a crappy unit, it tells you something about the manager's defensive tactics. Forget that, look at the midfield selection. Ramires?! Paulinho?! Look at the striker selections, Fred?! Jo?!. Look even at the way the TRIED to transition to attack or build up play. You will not find anything clear or distinctive other than individuality. And most of it came from Neymar. I am not talking about the game against Germany ONLY. I am talking from the start of the world cup. EVERY single player looked totally lost in EVERY SINGLE MATCH. Brazil only showed glimpses in the first 25-30 mins against

Colombia. And that was again based on individuality and excitement, along with the fear of the Colombians and the worst refereeing. Scolari himself said in the press conference that it was his fault for the selection he made. Putting individuals together in a team does not qualify a person to be a manger. It is how they play together and the cohesion of the team. The tactics and the way they approach every single match. Spain fell because of the players, tired, old....etc, but it was clear that had a strategy. Brazil.......no strategy, no tactics, no identity. That falls on the coach for his selections and tactics.

The coach plays a part but I disagree about how big his part is. The huge expectations and immense pressure was key in the way the players performed imo. They tried too hard. It's like driving a car and never taking your foot off the gas pedal.

Where was all this 'Scolari is completely incompetent' talk during the Confed Cup btw?

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The coach plays a part but I disagree about how big his part is. The huge expectations and immense pressure was key in the way the players performed imo. They tried too hard. It's like driving a car and never taking your foot off the gas pedal.

Where was all this 'Scolari is completely incompetent' talk during the Confed Cup btw?

Buddy, that has always been my opinion on Scolari ever since I saw what he produced with a team that had Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Juninho, Roberto Carlos, Lucio,....etc. Anyways, I wasn't referring to yesterday's performance. I am talking in general. Can you define a tactic that Brazil uses? I don't think so. Have seen a game for Brazil in this world cup with clear cut tactics? Perhaps a build up play that you see as a pattern? I really doubt. The 2002 squad were much more talented, and had already proven themselves and have been in tough situations with clubs a lot. This team is too young. You can't do that to young people. If you realize, even the Brazilians on this forum were not satisfied with the way Brazil played from their opening match. However, what hides it is a victory. What is the difference between Algeria, Ghana, USA, and Brazil? Who is more experienced, plays in top leagues, has an "experienced" coach, has higher talents? I agree that the expectations etc etc do have an effect and could have played a part. But again, what happened to the mental preparation the coach do or other staff do? They conceded 4 goals in 6 mins!!! What was worse, is that they showed no signs of putting the effort to come back with the exception of a couple of players. When you have a young team like this mate, the coach has a HUGE responsibility.

Korea, LAB, The Skipper and 1 other like this

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Buddy, that has always been my opinion on Scolari ever since I saw what he produced with a team that had Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, Juninho, Roberto Carlos, Lucio,....etc. Anyways, I wasn't referring to yesterday's performance. I am talking in general. Can you define a tactic that Brazil uses? I don't think so. Have seen a game for Brazil in this world cup with clear cut tactics? Perhaps a build up play that you see as a pattern? I really doubt. The 2002 squad were much more talented, and had already proven themselves and have been in tough situations with clubs a lot. This team is too young. You can't do that to young people. If you realize, even the Brazilians on this forum were not satisfied with the way Brazil played from their opening match. However, what hides it is a victory. What is the difference between Algeria, Ghana, USA, and Brazil? Who is more experienced, plays in top leagues, has an "experienced" coach, has higher talents? I agree that the expectations etc etc do have an effect and could have played a part. But again, what happened to the mental preparation the coach do or other staff do? They conceded 4 goals in 6 mins!!! What was worse, is that they showed no signs of putting the effort to come back with the exception of a couple of players. When you have a young team like this mate, the coach has a HUGE responsibility.

You don't have to tell me Brazil did not look good this World Cup. But they looked much better before the World Cup. That's why I say, the pressure got to them. The whole fantasy of winning the World Cup in their own home, overcoming the trauma of 1950, the political pressure etc.

Again, this team was unrecognizable compared to the performances before the World Cup.

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You don't have to tell me Brazil did not look good this World Cup. But they looked much better before the World Cup. That's why I say, the pressure got to them. The whole fantasy of winning the World Cup in their own home, overcoming the trauma of 1950, the political pressure etc.

Again, this team was unrecognizable compared to the performances before the World Cup.

Come on man :). Pressure in ALL 5 MATCHES, including a match in the group stage against TERRIBLE OLD Cameroon after they have qualified. I haven't seen any build up patterns in the team. Brazil doesn't kick the ball around and play long wishful passes. It is more than just pressure. The final game was just a summary. Remember this, now that Brazil is going to play for the third position ( hopefully against Argentina :) ), you will still see no pattern what so ever. You might see a stronger fighting spirit in an attempt to redeem themselves, but still with no tactics. Can you see how Jose, takes the pressure off the players and mentally prepares them. I think Chelsea's gameplay is not the most exciting one, but I see a tactic. You are Dutch, can you see how Louis Van Gaal prepares a his young inexperienced team. Sure they might lose, but you can see a system. Pressure does not make you LOSE a system, pressure makes you miss pass, rush a couple of things, but not play randomly. You have to be a really weak individual to completely forget everything. And if that happens, maybe to a couple of players, not the entire squad. 1950 wasn't a trauma, simply because Brazil was a nobody in football. It was just starting to find itself. And I say this with all respect to Brazil. That so called trauma, Brazil overcame by becoming the best country that plays football and has the most titles. If Scolari was really a smart coach, then after that second game against Mexico, he should have realized that the not so convincing performance they had in the first game carried on in the second. Therefore he should have tried to make some adjustments. Instead all he did was sub Fernandinho for Paulinho. That is it. Not good enough I think. So let us agree to disagree mate. But I respect your point of view.

zolayes and Barbara like this

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Well, what doesn't kill you, can only make you stronger. Oscar was slapped big time yesterday and hopefully this will get his feet back on the ground. If he is truly a professional he will be thirsty to try playing his best again for Chelsea. No more BS, time to get a rest and start working really hard after that. Make or break, definitely now.

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