Politics & Stuff

[Vesper 27,283]

1 hour ago, Fernando said:

Your saying it's men but you completely ignore the point that I mentioned that the women in the case of the roe v wade turned pro life...

Anyhow that is my response as to why I will vote for Trump. Because someone asked me why and that is the response.

I will not support anyone that is for abortion. I believe that is murder and because of that Trump will get my vote. 

Fuck Trump

fuck that racist, moronic, sociopathically narcissistic, vulgarian thug

he is a goddamn threat to world order and one issue voters like you are nothing short of bloody enablers to disastrous and systemic tyranny and white nationalism

if you support a racist, you are yourself a racist, and earn my utter and abject condemnation

and I do not give a FUCK if you toss out some token women who are so gutless and dommed out that they participate in their own subjugation to what is most assuredly a male dominated power structure when it comes to socio-religious stripping away or a priori banning of our basic human rights to autonomy, body and otherwise

stay the fuck out of my body, its is NOT state property, and it most assuredly is NOT a democracy, it is a dictatorship, and I alone have 100% of the power over it

 

[Fernando 6,375]

22 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Fuck Trump

fuck that racist, moronic, sociopathically narcissistic, vulgarian thug

he is a goddamn threat to world order and one issue voters like you are nothing short of bloody enablers to disastrous and systemic tyranny and white nationalism

if you support a racist, you are yourself a racist, and earn my utter and abject condemnation

and I do not give a FUCK if you toss out some token women who are so gutless and dommed out that they participate in their own subjugation to what is most assuredly a male dominated power structure when it comes to socio-religious stripping away or a priori banning of our basic human rights to autonomy, body and otherwise

stay the fuck out of my body, its is NOT state property, and it most assuredly is NOT a democracy, it is a dictatorship, and I alone have 100% of the power over it

 

Wow so I never insulted you and when you don't agree with my view you just cursed at me? 

Where's the freedom to have your opinion? 

I still forgive you and I pray for you that God will bless you. 🙏🏼

 

[Vesper 27,283]

8 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Wow so I never insulted you and when you don't agree with my view you just cursed at me? 

Where's the freedom to have your opinion? 

I still forgive you and I pray for you that God will bless you. 🙏🏼

 

I give no quarter when it comes to racism and when it comes to human rights stripping

I will never  accept either

[chippy 342]

16 hours ago, Vesper said:

define what you mean by identity politics

you sound like you are using right-wing talking points m8

or you are some neoliberal 3rd way Blairite type

perhaps I am wrong, which is why I ask

 

You and everyone on here knows full well what identity politics is and who is practicing it, so don't try and play games.

 

Sadly, your redneck slurs are just typical of the kind of reaction you get from so many of the left these days. If someone doesn't go along with their extreme ideology they are instantly branded as a racist/ascist/Nazi.

Just voting for Brexit or Conservative makes someone a fucking Nazi. Simply wanting your own Country to govern itself is seen as xenophobic. We see the hateful, racist, race baiting Labour MP David Lammy gets away with saying members of the ERG are WORSE than Nazis. Yes, worse than mass murderers.

The Left have lost the argument  and have nothing left other than to dish out abuse.

 

As for what my politics is?

Until Corbyn and Momentum came along and hijacked the party I'd always  considered myself as a fairly middle of the road Labour voter. Come the next election Tony Blair will have been the only Labour leader to have won an election in the last 50 years. They're losing millions of their core voters and becoming more and more irrelevant as each decade passes.

[chippy 342]

4 hours ago, Vesper said:

I give no quarter when it comes to racism and when it comes to human rights stripping

I will never  accept either

You say you give no quarter to racism.

Is that just white on non white racism or do you also condem it the other way too?

Do you condemn the racist ANC governmant in South Africa? In Zimbabwe?

Do you condemn the racist attacks in Sweden with gangs of immigrants attacking young Swedish boys in what is being called humiliation attacks? 

The Muslim pedo gangs who targeted under age white girls in England.

Militant blacks in America getting away with saying  in Uni "there are too many white people in here". 

Real Liberals speak out against everyone and everything that is bad or wrong. The modern left keep very quiet when it comes to the bad within certain sections of society.

 

[Vesper 27,283]

16 minutes ago, chippy said:

You say you give no quarter to racism.

Is that just white on non white racism or do you also condem it the other way too?

Do you condemn the racist ANC governmant in South Africa? In Zimbabwe?

Do you condemn the racist attacks in Sweden with gangs of immigrants attacking young Swedish boys in what is being called humiliation attacks? 

The Muslim pedo gangs who targeted under age white girls in England.

Militant blacks in America getting away with saying  in Uni "there are too many white people in here". 

Real Liberals speak out against everyone and everything that is bad or wrong. The modern left keep very quiet when it comes to the bad within certain sections of society.

 

I have condemned racism in all its forms

on this thread I have went into great detail on the situation here in Sweden

but Trump and white nationalism around the world are at a whole different level as there you are are talking about people who have systemic control of the entire system, in the US case with Trump and white nationalism, they control the political sphere, the social sphere, and the economic sphere

btw I am not a huge believer in what is often a false left v right paradigm

in the US for instance (although Trump is pushing the envelope so far that it is causing systemic imbalance in most cases) both the 2 main parties, at the end of the day, most always come together to keep the overarching thematics of the war/security/surveillance state (and its attendant global empric power projections) completely in place

they do the same with bankster economic systemic control

much of the so called hard conflict inflection points (especially pre Trump) are wedge issues that are over-emphasised to play the thousands of years old game of divide et impera

similar tactics are used globally in most nations, albeit tweaked to fit the particular internal situations of that specific nation state

 

 

[Vesper 27,283]

perfect meme that sums up how the games is played by the RW in the US

 

the so-called left has its own tricks there

Clintonian neoliberal identity politics is one of their chief weapons to control their part of the herd

the Blairites in the UK did and do the same thing

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,733]

10 hours ago, Fernando said:

Your saying it's men but you completely ignore the point that I mentioned that the women in the case of the roe v wade turned pro life...

Anyhow that is my response as to why I will vote for Trump. Because someone asked me why and that is the response.

I will not support anyone that is for abortion. I believe that is murder and because of that Trump will get my vote. 

Its crazy Trump has convinced you hes on your side on that issue.

 

I grew up watching Trump make jokes about Abortion, and "What are we gonna do with this thing" in reference to his daughter tiffany when Marla Maples told him she was pregnant on the Howard Stern show. Hes not for "family rights" or conservatism at all. He's a clown who runs as a republican because he know he can exploit their racism to make a buck.

[Fernando 6,375]

4 hours ago, Sir Mikel OBE said:

Its crazy Trump has convinced you hes on your side on that issue.

 

I grew up watching Trump make jokes about Abortion, and "What are we gonna do with this thing" in reference to his daughter tiffany when Marla Maples told him she was pregnant on the Howard Stern show. Hes not for "family rights" or conservatism at all. He's a clown who runs as a republican because he know he can exploit their racism to make a buck.

You could be right however actions speak louder then words. 

I say that because in the 4 years he has been president he has fulfilled what he promised. He passed the bill to defund planned parent hood, he started the wall project and he moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. 

Despite all the shenanigans this speak loud that he is a man that does what he promised to do. As these are promises he made before being elected. 

And because of that I feel confident that if he says he will defend the right to live and stop all this mass murder of innocent children, he will do it. 

In other news this Corona virus is a true pandemic. Theirs a theory that says its a man made disease giving that in Wuhan there's a laboratory for diseases. Weather that's true we don't know but things are serious when you start quarantining entire sections in many countries. 

I will pray for you guys that are in such dangerous area. 🙏🏼

[chippy 342]

20 hours ago, Atomiswave said:

No matter whom you are voting for they are clowns and actors.

To be a little bit fair to them.

Being a Politician is a very difficult and demanding job with very long hours. They get the blame for everything wrong/bad and the credit for very little. It's impossible to make everyone happy. You have the far left who detest the idea of living under Conservative rule (90 out of the last 120 years btw) and others who see far left ideology as just crazy and downright dangerous.

A good number of them could earn a great deal more money doing something different, but the decent ones (for which there are many) want to try and make their Countries and their peoples lives better. 

For all their faults, overall,  i think most of them do a good job. 

 

 

[chippy 342]

14 hours ago, Vesper said:

I have condemned racism in all its forms

on this thread I have went into great detail on the situation here in Sweden

but Trump and white nationalism around the world are at a whole different level as there you are are talking about people who have systemic control of the entire system, in the US case with Trump and white nationalism, they control the political sphere, the social sphere, and the economic sphere

btw I am not a huge believer in what is often a false left v right paradigm

in the US for instance (although Trump is pushing the envelope so far that it is causing systemic imbalance in most cases) both the 2 main parties, at the end of the day, most always come together to keep the overarching thematics of the war/security/surveillance state (and its attendant global empric power projections) completely in place

they do the same with bankster economic systemic control

much of the so called hard conflict inflection points (especially pre Trump) are wedge issues that are over-emphasised to play the thousands of years old game of divide et impera

similar tactics are used globally in most nations, albeit tweaked to fit the particular internal situations of that specific nation state

 

 

Trump is an economic nationalist ( something i see nothing wrong with at all) not a White Nationalist, which is something I would be 100% against. Black Republican, Ben Carson, has know Trump for years and strongly defends Trump, as do many others who know him. Trump can be very crude and politically incorrect though!

 

Btw it was Obama who introduced the detention facilities with children in cages, not Trump!

Sane thing happening here with the deportation of foreign criminals. A policy started by a Labour government is now somehow seen as racist by that very party. Lammy and co have no problem deporting white, European criminals but yet again play the race card when it comes to deporting black criminals. Stinking hypocricy and another example of the reverse racism that is now going on with that lot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vesper 27,283]

3 hours ago, chippy said:

Trump is an economic nationalist ( something i see nothing wrong with at all) not a White Nationalist, which is something I would be 100% against. Black Republican, Ben Carson, has know Trump for years and strongly defends Trump, as do many others who know him. Trump can be very crude and politically incorrect though!

 

Btw it was Obama who introduced the detention facilities with children in cages, not Trump!

Sane thing happening here with the deportation of foreign criminals. A policy started by a Labour government is now somehow seen as racist by that very party. Lammy and co have no problem deporting white, European criminals but yet again play the race card when it comes to deporting black criminals. Stinking hypocricy and another example of the reverse racism that is now going on with that lot. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

this is gaslighting

Trump is a racist, a white nationalist who is support by racists and white nationalists

he literally exists as a political animal on the back of a politics of racial division that takes a changing culture and socio-economic reality for a large swathe of white american and WEAPONISES it into a blunt intrusment of hate and a yearning for the good old days where the whites had the colored masses under a systemic bootheel and most all levels

the funny thing is, that even back then, the average white person was still a little cog in the machine of a small ultra-powerful group at the top

they just were given something and SOMEONE to look down upon and to scapegoat for their own shitty little lives

LBJ (a massively flawed individual himself) knew this all along when he said (about how the people in the racist elements of American segregationist politics stayed in power, especially in the South, where he (a Texan) was from)

Trump is not an economic nationalist, he is a pro-oligarch self -obsessed, woefully unintelligent cretin who will do and support anything that he thinks is in his own self interest

and you keep making the massive assumption that I am a fan of Obama and think the American Democratic party is some sort of a paragon of virtue

Obama was a war criminal as was Hillary Clinton, John 'Bomb Iran' McCain, Bushes, Reagan, Blair, etc etc and it's two sides-same coin at the truly deep systemic issues such as empire and banking and the security state when you are looking at  both the Repugs and the Dummicrats

[Vesper 27,283]

With the UK’s European door closed, it’s open season for xenophobia

Paul Mason explains how, even after the UK has technically left the EU, ‘Brexit’ has escalated into a culture war over immigration.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/with-the-uks-european-door-closed-its-open-season-for-xenophobia

Two million people saw it live and at least six million have watched it on ‘social media’: last week on the BBC’s prime-time political show, Question Time, an audience member launched a passionate tirade against immigration, littered with hatred and falsehoods. ‘We should completely close the borders,’ she said. ‘You’ve got people flooding into this country that cannot speak English … In the NHS everything’s written in different languages … You arrive on a plane, you get free service, you can have your babies …’

None of the claims was factual—and nobody was surprised when, within 24 hours, the woman was revealed to be an active supporter of the English far-right leader ‘Tommy Robinson’. Members of the discussion panel tried to set her straight—but as a moment in British politics it will be hard to forget. It shows that, within three weeks of the chauvinist jamboree that was Brexit night (January 31st), Britain’s xenophobic right is unassuaged. Even as the candidates for Labour’s leadership succession are trying to assure pro-Brexit working-class voters that ‘the argument is over’, the argument actually continues.

Clearest signal

Those on the English plebeian right don’t just want to leave the European Union—they want all trace of the UK’s multi-ethnic and globalised society eradicated. Also last week, Boris Johnson’s government gave the clearest possible signal that it will go on stirring up their anger against all the old targets in the Brexit debate. In a speech in Brussels, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator, David Frost, warned the EU that Britain was prepared to walk away from any meaningful trade dialogue if it could not get a Canada-style trade deal by December, when the transition period ends. The UK intends to undercut the EU on food standards, labour-market rules and financial regulation, rejecting demands for common standards in favour of what Frost called ‘sovereignty’. And if it can’t get permission to do so through a trade deal, it will do it anyway.

Sharing rejected

Rejecting the entire basis of the multilateral global system, where sovereignty is effectively shared through trade treaties which can be adjudicated in common courts, Frost warned: ‘We take the opposite view. We believe sovereignty is meaningful and what it enables us to do is to set our rules for our own benefit.’ I expect this stance to be moderated by diplomats when the UK presents its negotiating document to the European Commission this week, but not by much. It is an ultimatum, designed as much for the consumption of the racist woman on Question Time—and her equivalents in every one of the EU27—as for the commission.

snip

[Tomo 21,681]

1 hour ago, Vesper said:

With the UK’s European door closed, it’s open season for xenophobia

Paul Mason explains how, even after the UK has technically left the EU, ‘Brexit’ has escalated into a culture war over immigration.

https://www.socialeurope.eu/with-the-uks-european-door-closed-its-open-season-for-xenophobia

Two million people saw it live and at least six million have watched it on ‘social media’: last week on the BBC’s prime-time political show, Question Time, an audience member launched a passionate tirade against immigration, littered with hatred and falsehoods. ‘We should completely close the borders,’ she said. ‘You’ve got people flooding into this country that cannot speak English … In the NHS everything’s written in different languages … You arrive on a plane, you get free service, you can have your babies …’

None of the claims was factual—and nobody was surprised when, within 24 hours, the woman was revealed to be an active supporter of the English far-right leader ‘Tommy Robinson’. Members of the discussion panel tried to set her straight—but as a moment in British politics it will be hard to forget. It shows that, within three weeks of the chauvinist jamboree that was Brexit night (January 31st), Britain’s xenophobic right is unassuaged. Even as the candidates for Labour’s leadership succession are trying to assure pro-Brexit working-class voters that ‘the argument is over’, the argument actually continues.

Clearest signal

Those on the English plebeian right don’t just want to leave the European Union—they want all trace of the UK’s multi-ethnic and globalised society eradicated. Also last week, Boris Johnson’s government gave the clearest possible signal that it will go on stirring up their anger against all the old targets in the Brexit debate. In a speech in Brussels, the UK’s lead Brexit negotiator, David Frost, warned the EU that Britain was prepared to walk away from any meaningful trade dialogue if it could not get a Canada-style trade deal by December, when the transition period ends. The UK intends to undercut the EU on food standards, labour-market rules and financial regulation, rejecting demands for common standards in favour of what Frost called ‘sovereignty’. And if it can’t get permission to do so through a trade deal, it will do it anyway.

Sharing rejected

Rejecting the entire basis of the multilateral global system, where sovereignty is effectively shared through trade treaties which can be adjudicated in common courts, Frost warned: ‘We take the opposite view. We believe sovereignty is meaningful and what it enables us to do is to set our rules for our own benefit.’ I expect this stance to be moderated by diplomats when the UK presents its negotiating document to the European Commission this week, but not by much. It is an ultimatum, designed as much for the consumption of the racist woman on Question Time—and her equivalents in every one of the EU27—as for the commission.

snip

This is the big problem for me and why I can't accept Brexit. If the vote was won due to voters voting leave because they genuinely believe it's what is best for the country I would begrudgingly accept the result.

However take the votes from people like that women out and remain wins. It's genuinely shocking how many people have been brainwashed into believing the problems in Britain stem from foreign nationals, someone told me just after the vote that he voted leave because "people should live in their own country" 

[Vesper 27,283]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

This is the big problem for me and why I can't accept Brexit. If the vote was won due to voters voting leave because they genuinely believe it's what is best for the country I would begrudgingly accept the result.

However take the votes from people like that women out and remain wins. It's genuinely shocking how many people have been brainwashed into believing the problems in Britain stem from foreign nationals, someone told me just after the vote that he voted leave because "people should live in their own country" 

It si a massive issue

and because the centre left and centre right parties just tried to ram the EU projects as a giant neoliberal bankster project, designer to create a huge and mobile surplus pool of labour, that can flow in and fuck up a nations hard fought for labour and union gains

the far right stepped into the breach, and used racial and xenophobic scapegoating all across the EU and UK to gain power

Russia has been really pushing this through a myriad numbers of mediums, in order to destabilise the West

Political parties that are similar to my views reached their heyday in the noughties

but now have falling back in league often with the neoliberals

and eurosceptics are now dominated by the racist right

IF Sweden had taken the immigration stance that Norway and Denmark and Finland had done so

we would have been the best governed nation on the planet

as we had some advantages over the Danes, and the Norwegians are a creature of their petro-wealth to a far higher degree than the rest of the Nordic

but we did not

so the Danes and the Norse are probably the best run overall

I still vastly prefer living in Sweden than those 2 nations though, for now, as we are richer overall in cosmopolitan culture, although that may change as demographics start to really swamp us out

the whole thing is terribly complex, and the emergent dominance of social media does NOT lend itself to complexity

I can, however, safely say that the way of Trumpian politics is a cul-de-sac of ruination on multiple levels

it is like the worst of all the RW congealed together inside a cult of personality

the big systemic rentier capitalist forces operating with impunity in the background, tearing down the social protections, whilst forces of hate, racism, and xenophobia are unleashed to keep the masses in check

[Vesper 27,283]

Trump's Coronavirus Press Conference Was the Apotheosis of 40 Years of Republican Philosophy

The neglect of science, the rejection of empiricism, the deliberately cultivated incompetence within the institutions of government.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a31135032/president-trump-coronavirus-press-conference-republicans-science/

And now, several dozen giddily disconnected words from the President* of the United States.

WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THE HILL, VERY, VERY CAREFULLY AND VERY STRONGLY AND I THINK WE HAVE GOOD BIPARTISAN SPIRIT. WE WERE ASKING FOR $2.5 BILLION AND WE THINK THAT'S A LOT, BUT THE DEMOCRATS AND I GUESS SENATOR SCHUMER WANTS TO HAVE MUCH MORE THAN THAT. AND WE'LL TAKE IT. IF THEY WANT TO GIVE MORE. WE'LL DO MORE. WE WILL SPEND MORE. HOPEFULLY WE WON'T SPEND SO MUCH BECAUSE WE HAVE TAKEN IT DOWN TO A MINIMUM AND WE HAVE HAD TREMENDOUS SUCCESS. AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE OUTBREAKS IN SOME COUNTRIES, ITALY AND VARIOUS COUNTRIES. CHINA, YOU KNOW ABOUT, WHERE IT STARTED. AND I SPOKE WITH PRESIDENT XI AND HE IS WORKING VERY HARD, HE IS WORKING VERY, VERY HARD. AND IF YOU CAN COUNT ON THE REPORTS COMING OUT OF CHINA, THAT SPREAD HAS GONE DOWN QUITE A BIT. THE INFECTION HAS GONE DOWN OVER THE LAST TWO DAYS AS OPPOSED TO GETTING LARGER. IT HAS GOTTEN SMALLER AND WE CAN BE RELIABLE AND SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN QUITE A BIT SMALLER. WITH RESPECT TO THE MONEY THAT'S BEING NEGOTIATED. THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. WE ARE REQUESTING 2.5. SOME REPUBLICANS WOULD LIKE US TO GET 4 AND SOME DEMOCRATS WOULD LIKE US TO GET 8.5 AND WE WILL BE SATISFIED. WE ARE BRINGING IN A SPECIAL LIFT TOMORROW WHO WORKS AT THE STATE DEPARTMENT. VERY, VERY TREMENDOUSLY TALENTED IN DOING THIS. I WANTED YOU TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING THAT SHOCKED ME AND I SPOKE WITH DR. FAUCI ON THIS AND I WAS REALLY AMAZED AND MOST PEOPLE AMAZED. THE FLU IN OUR COUNTRY KILLS FROM 25,000 PEOPLE TO 69,000 PEOPLE A YEAR. THAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME. AND SO FAR, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE WITH THE 15 PEOPLE AND THEY ARE RECOVERING, ONE IS PRETTY SICK. BUT HOPEFULLY WILL RECOVER. BUT THE OTHERS ARE IN GREAT SHAPE. THINK OF THAT 25,000 TO 69,000 OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS AND LOST 360,000. THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIED FROM THE FLU. HEY, DID YOU GET THE FLU SHOT. AND THAT IS SOMETHING.

 

If it is possible to avert a public health crisis by inoculating the population with sheer incoherence, we’re all going to be healthy as horses over the next several months.

He’s not ready, of course. He’s shredded the nation’s public health institutions. He’s populated his administration* with sycophantic know-nothings. He himself doesn’t know anything about anything. He looked incredibly relieved during Wednesday’s press conference when somebody asked him about the effect of a coronavirus pandemic on the stock market. He doesn’t know anything about anything there, either, but at least, in that area, he’s more accustomed to faking it.

The sad part was watching all of these accomplished, brilliant people, the people who have dedicated their lives to solving epidemic diseases at the highest level, standing there behind a vulgar talking yam, praising him for his brilliant work thus far, and listening to him hand the country’s response over to Vice President Mike Pence, who is just as ignorant as the president* but with that extra Jesus-y sheen on his ignorance. This is the same Pence who, while governor of Indiana, once oversaw an HIV epidemic in a small town in part because of his animus to Planned Parenthood, and who wrote newspaper columns denigrating the connection between cigarettes and respiratory diseases.

Like so much else about this administration*, the press conference was the apotheosis of over 40 years of Republican governing philosophy: the neglect of science in every field from climate to the human reproductive system, the rejection of empiricism in every field from economics to public health, the deliberately cultivated incompetence within the institutions of government and without. The distance between James Watt and Mike Pence is so small, it’s hardly worth measuring. The press conference was nothing more than what we’ve come to expect from Republican presidents, albeit more of a tussle with the English language than even those engaged in by George W. Bush. The coronavirus may fade. The prion disease, which is just as contagious, rages on.

 

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4857391/user-clip-trump-speaks

[Vesper 27,283]

[Fernando 6,375]

14 hours ago, Vesper said:

No problem with the Dow Jones. 

It's due for a much needed correction. 

The gains for the past 10 years have been way too much. 

If you look at a chart from the financial crisis it's been a northward curve. 

Big gains, big moves.