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Spike

Politics & Stuff

Started by Spike,

7,269 posts in this topic

That's an interesting major, I wish my school offered it. Right now I'm a "Sociology/Anthropology" major, absolutely love the subjects. Focusing on Sociology though.

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I don't think anyone is disputing that Bush should be put on trial as well, and would be had he been Iraqi or Bosnian instead of American. Bush, for all his faults, didn't use predator drones, although that would primarily because he didn't have widespread access to them. I'm certain he would have had no qualms using them if he had them at his disposal in 2001. The main concerns I have with him are torture in Guantamo Bay and their unconstitutional nature, as well as the fact that they circumvent Geneva Convention regulation on the treatment of POWs.

all i have to say is wow. These terrorists come to our country and kill 3,000 people american citizens. so what that Bush broke the rules, no country/leader is perfect and to hold that against him is not fair. You're against the treatment of POWs well im not, and just gona have to leave it there.

however, this Obama is a war criminal is by far the most annoyming statement i've ever heard of. The terrorits go and hide among the local citizen putting their own countrymen at risk after they attack us. if there is anybody you should be mad at its them the terrorists(al qaeda). what are we supposed to do? sit back and say "oh dont shoot innocent people are at risk"?? we have to protect USA and we will go to extreme lengths and bounds to do so. if this happened to your country you would not be in the same position you are in right now, i guarantee. they waged the war not us, and no matter what your opinion may be these drones are working and we will continue to use them until the threat of an attack has greatly subsided.

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Stalin was a mass murder on a scale greater than Hitler! Not bad for a priest!

lots of website around for soviet history but really you need to start from about 1880-5

The Ukraine Famine I heard about, thats why i heard on a site he was listed as eviler than hitler and his successor Nikita Khrushchev apparently hated the guts outta stalin XD.

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all i have to say is wow. These terrorists come to our country and kill 3,000 people american citizens. so what that Bush broke the rules, no country/leader is perfect and to hold that against him is not fair. You're against the treatment of POWs well im not, and just gona have to leave it there.

however, this Obama is a war criminal is by far the most annoyming statement i've ever heard of. The terrorits go and hide among the local citizen putting their own countrymen at risk after they attack us. if there is anybody you should be mad at its them the terrorists(al qaeda). what are we supposed to do? sit back and say "oh dont shoot innocent people are at risk"?? we have to protect USA and we will go to extreme lengths and bounds to do so. if this happened to your country you would not be in the same position you are in right now, i guarantee. they waged the war not us, and no matter what your opinion may be these drones are working and we will continue to use them until the threat of an attack has greatly subsided.

What happened at Guantanamo Bay is against international law. You can't torture suspects, you need a load of evidence before you can incarcerate someone. And even then, torture isn't permitted by the Geneva Convention- which the USA was a signatory to. Just because you're America and you fancy yourselves as some sort of holy force, doesn't mean the rules don't apply to you. Therefore Bush must be given the harshest possible sentence from the International Criminal Court. If they do death sentences for war criminals then he deserves it. Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp, a modern day Auschwitz-Birkenau, and those that support it are no better than the Nazi's that were executed after the Nurnburg Trials.

I'm shocked by your opinions on POWs. These guys are just following orders, they/their families be killed if they don't. So you think what the Japanese did in WW2 to Allied soldiers is okay, because the Allies posed a threat to Japan?

pows-considered-fit-for-work-by-their-japanese-captors.jpg

3000 civilians is nothing compared to what's happened in Pakistan and Afghanistan. As I said before all these predator drones do is attack entire villages. There may be at the most half a dozen terrorists hiding out in a village (mostly none at all, they prefer caves to urban settlements) and several thousand villagers. The drones take out anything that moves in the village. The elderly. The children. The pregnant, ill and otherwise incapable. And you're forgetting that none of these Pakistani/Afghani civilians had anything to do with any terrorist attack. They didn't request al-Qaeda to start a war they knew would bring them nothing but death. They're just simple peasants that are being killed in their tens of thousands on the whim of some general sitting in Washington, all because there MIGHT be a small time terrorist holed up in a village somewhere. You're not going to find the big names anywhere near urban settlements (look at Osama, he was living in a home that was isolated and surrounded by wilderness). The entire US Army need's a massive purge, starting with its supreme commander, the president.

They didn't wage shit against you. al-Qaeda did. al-Qaeda are not the government of Afghanistan/Pakistan. What you're saying is identical to saying that every German during WW2 was a Nazi and still is today. The common people had no idea what happened and they sure as hell didn't support it because they knew that the US Army would be coming and they knew that the US Army was the single worst violator of human rights since the Wehrmacht. Vietnam, Korea, Granada... there's a long history of US Army breaking war protocols and getting away with it.

You mention defending America. Defending what, exactly? Its laws and values. What does the USA, the ultimate democracy, value? Human rights. Why did you intervene in Iraq? Not just for the supposed WMD's, but also to save the Iraqi public from a madcap dictator. Human rights. And they're breaking them all the time in this War of Terror. It is not worth defending America if America itself cannot adhere to its own values and laws.

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What happened at Guantanamo Bay is against international law. You can't torture suspects, you need a load of evidence before you can incarcerate someone. And even then, torture isn't permitted by the Geneva Convention- which the USA was a signatory to. Just because you're America and you fancy yourselves as some sort of holy force, doesn't mean the rules don't apply to you. Therefore Bush must be given the harshest possible sentence from the International Criminal Court. If they do death sentences for war criminals then he deserves it. Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp, a modern day Auschwitz-Birkenau, and those that support it are no better than the Nazi's that were executed after the Nurnburg Trials.

I'm shocked by your opinions on POWs. These guys are just following orders, they/their families be killed if they don't. So you think what the Japanese did in WW2 to Allied soldiers is okay, because the Allies posed a threat to Japan?

pows-considered-fit-for-work-by-their-japanese-captors.jpg

3000 civilians is nothing compared to what's happened in Pakistan and Afghanistan. As I said before all these predator drones do is attack entire villages. There may be at the most half a dozen terrorists hiding out in a village (mostly none at all, they prefer caves to urban settlements) and several thousand villagers. The drones take out anything that moves in the village. The elderly. The children. The pregnant, ill and otherwise incapable. And you're forgetting that none of these Pakistani/Afghani civilians had anything to do with any terrorist attack. They didn't request al-Qaeda to start a war they knew would bring them nothing but death. They're just simple peasants that are being killed in their tens of thousands on the whim of some general sitting in Washington, all because there MIGHT be a small time terrorist holed up in a village somewhere. You're not going to find the big names anywhere near urban settlements (look at Osama, he was living in a home that was isolated and surrounded by wilderness). The entire US Army need's a massive purge, starting with its supreme commander, the president.

They didn't wage shit against you. al-Qaeda did. al-Qaeda are not the government of Afghanistan/Pakistan. What you're saying is identical to saying that every German during WW2 was a Nazi and still is today. The common people had no idea what happened and they sure as hell didn't support it because they knew that the US Army would be coming and they knew that the US Army was the single worst violator of human rights since the Wehrmacht. Vietnam, Korea, Granada... there's a long history of US Army breaking war protocols and getting away with it.

You mention defending America. Defending what, exactly? Its laws and values. What does the USA, the ultimate democracy, value? Human rights. Why did you intervene in Iraq? Not just for the supposed WMD's, but also to save the Iraqi public from a madcap dictator. Human rights. And they're breaking them all the time in this War of Terror. It is not worth defending America if America itself cannot adhere to its own values and laws.

wow my friend ! completely irrational rhetoric here! Are your family from this part of the world by any chance? Whilst i agree with some of your sentiments about America setting itself up as the worlds moral force etc most of what you said is very emotional. The bay is gradually being taken care of: Obama is lined up against the whole redneck and extremely right wing American institutions but is getting there. You are at uni and what do you think would be your teachers reaction to your statements? They would tell you that they are far too emotional and selective to be taken seriously. Arguments, excluding football, must be reasoned and explained. Quetta, the Khyber pass, and other mountainous areas have been considered as bandit country for years and years even before any hijacking of Islam buy terrorists. Quetta for instance was the center for the heroin trade , whereas the khyber pass was where arms were made and or sold to all and sundry. I have friends who were there and fired surface to air missiles for a very small price!

Every tale has two sides and nothing will ever be resolved unless facts can be told dispassionately! :fainthv9: There you go and I've no doubt these words will be shoved in my face on a regular basis here now :fainthv9:

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What happened at Guantanamo Bay is against international law. You can't torture suspects, you need a load of evidence before you can incarcerate someone. And even then, torture isn't permitted by the Geneva Convention- which the USA was a signatory to. Just because you're America and you fancy yourselves as some sort of holy force, doesn't mean the rules don't apply to you. Therefore Bush must be given the harshest possible sentence from the International Criminal Court. If they do death sentences for war criminals then he deserves it. Guantanamo Bay is a concentration camp, a modern day Auschwitz-Birkenau, and those that support it are no better than the Nazi's that were executed after the Nurnburg Trials.

I'm shocked by your opinions on POWs. These guys are just following orders, they/their families be killed if they don't. So you think what the Japanese did in WW2 to Allied soldiers is okay, because the Allies posed a threat to Japan?

3000 civilians is nothing compared to what's happened in Pakistan and Afghanistan. As I said before all these predator drones do is attack entire villages. There may be at the most half a dozen terrorists hiding out in a village (mostly none at all, they prefer caves to urban settlements) and several thousand villagers. The drones take out anything that moves in the village. The elderly. The children. The pregnant, ill and otherwise incapable. And you're forgetting that none of these Pakistani/Afghani civilians had anything to do with any terrorist attack. They didn't request al-Qaeda to start a war they knew would bring them nothing but death. They're just simple peasants that are being killed in their tens of thousands on the whim of some general sitting in Washington, all because there MIGHT be a small time terrorist holed up in a village somewhere. You're not going to find the big names anywhere near urban settlements (look at Osama, he was living in a home that was isolated and surrounded by wilderness). The entire US Army need's a massive purge, starting with its supreme commander, the president.

They didn't wage shit against you. al-Qaeda did. al-Qaeda are not the government of Afghanistan/Pakistan. What you're saying is identical to saying that every German during WW2 was a Nazi and still is today. The common people had no idea what happened and they sure as hell didn't support it because they knew that the US Army would be coming and they knew that the US Army was the single worst violator of human rights since the Wehrmacht. Vietnam, Korea, Granada... there's a long history of US Army breaking war protocols and getting away with it.

You mention defending America. Defending what, exactly? Its laws and values. What does the USA, the ultimate democracy, value? Human rights. Why did you intervene in Iraq? Not just for the supposed WMD's, but also to save the Iraqi public from a madcap dictator. Human rights. And they're breaking them all the time in this War of Terror. It is not worth defending America if America itself cannot adhere to its own values and laws.

The reason that was given for our invasion in Iraq was for WMDs which was absolutely a lie. Bush got himself caught in an all out attack which left him looking for any escape route. The invasion of Afghanistan was permitted, and was for the right reason, Osama Bin Laden. Defending what you ask? Defending our country from any future attack and keeping the battle-field away from our home. Your positon on the POWs goes both ways Cap. Becusue we all know that American POWs are treated fairly eh? they are given the royal treatment. so just paint us as the big-bad monster trouncing on the little guy.

I NEVER SAID THE IRAQI GOV'MNT WAGED WAR AGAINST US. i said specifically al qaeda(and i know that al qaeda is a terrorist group) i said that they (AL QAEDA) terrorists go and hide amongst their fellow citizens and then when we try and attack them via the drones the innocent are also killed. now tell me what are we supposed to do? honestly what are we supposed to do? Bush used the drones but sparingly but Obama increased the intensity ten-fold and im happ y with the result,,, here ;(http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/04/30/11475659-us-official-acknowledges-drone-strikes-says-civilian-deaths-exceedingly-rare?lite) its nowhere near the 3,000.

and tell me when countries go to war, justified convential war innocent people aren't killed?? by your logic all presidents are war criminals and should be killed.....

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The reason that was given for our invasion in Iraq was for WMDs which was absolutely a lie. Bush got himself caught in an all out attack which left him looking for any escape route. The invasion of Afghanistan was permitted, and was for the right reason, Osama Bin Laden. Defending what you ask? Defending our country from any future attack and keeping the battle-field away from our home. Your positon on the POWs goes both ways Cap. Becusue we all know that American POWs are treated fairly eh? they are given the royal treatment. so just paint us as the big-bad monster trouncing on the little guy.

I NEVER SAID THE IRAQI GOV'MNT WAGED WAR AGAINST US. i said specifically al qaeda(and i know that al qaeda is a terrorist group) i said that they (AL QAEDA) terrorists go and hide amongst their fellow citizens and then when we try and attack them via the drones the innocent are also killed. now tell me what are we supposed to do? honestly what are we supposed to do? Bush used the drones but sparingly but Obama increased the intensity ten-fold and im happ y with the result,,, here ;(http://openchannel.n...ingly-rare?lite) its nowhere near the 3,000.

and tell me when countries go to war, justified convential war innocent people aren't killed?? by your logic all presidents are war criminals and should be killed.....

No, President Wilson for example was no war criminal. Neither was Roosevelt, and Truman, I'll let him get away with nuking the Japanese as in a perverse way, he saved Japan from ruin by nuking them. Churchill was no war criminal either.

There's been a massive shift in the way the US has conducted its wars since the Vietnam War.

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wow my friend ! completely irrational rhetoric here! Are your family from this part of the world by any chance? Whilst i agree with some of your sentiments about America setting itself up as the worlds moral force etc most of what you said is very emotional. The bay is gradually being taken care of: Obama is lined up against the whole redneck and extremely right wing American institutions but is getting there. You are at uni and what do you think would be your teachers reaction to your statements? They would tell you that they are far too emotional and selective to be taken seriously. Arguments, excluding football, must be reasoned and explained. Quetta, the Khyber pass, and other mountainous areas have been considered as bandit country for years and years even before any hijacking of Islam buy terrorists. Quetta for instance was the center for the heroin trade , whereas the khyber pass was where arms were made and or sold to all and sundry. I have friends who were there and fired surface to air missiles for a very small price!

Every tale has two sides and nothing will ever be resolved unless facts can be told dispassionately! :fainthv9: There you go and I've no doubt these words will be shoved in my face on a regular basis here now :fainthv9:

I'm not a terrorist sympathiser. Khyber Pass? Sure, use predator drones there where the only civilian might be a goatherd. Miranshah, a village of 14,000? No.

Also I acknowledged (or perhaps didn't, but I never bundled his name alongside Bush with regards to the Bay) that Obama shouldn't be charged over the Bay as he is fixing up the system. What he should be looked at is the use of drones in civilian areas. It's an insane approach, akin to shooting fish in a barrel in the hope that there might be a terrorist hiding down there somewhere.

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I'm not a terrorist sympathiser. Khyber Pass? Sure, use predator drones there where the only civilian might be a goatherd. Miranshah, a village of 14,000? No.

Also I acknowledged (or perhaps didn't, but I never bundled his name alongside Bush with regards to the Bay) that Obama shouldn't be charged over the Bay as he is fixing up the system. What he should be looked at is the use of drones in civilian areas. It's an insane approach, akin to shooting fish in a barrel in the hope that there might be a terrorist hiding down there somewhere.

Pakistan is a young state and is still in a flux of islamaphobia which does not help matters.

The state there really needs to get a hold on things, including the military for any improvements to be made.

I also think the USA should now take care of their own shit instead of getting involved in everyone elses!

Islamaphobia is probably the wrong word here but what i mean is that Pakistan has no way of defining itself except through Islam.

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No, President Wilson for example was no war criminal. Neither was Roosevelt, and Truman, I'll let him get away with nuking the Japanese as in a perverse way, he saved Japan from ruin by nuking them. Churchill was no war criminal either.

There's been a massive shift in the way the US has conducted its wars since the Vietnam War.

Not true. Churchill ordered the purposeful killing of tens of thousands of civilians. So did Truman. The real change has been twofold: First, in our attitude towards civilian deaths. Overall, this has been a fabulous change. We no longer accept carpet bombing of civilians (by most countries anyway, Russia did it in Chechnya to almost no outcry, the French killed hundreds of thousands of Algerians in the 50's and 60's and few even remember that). What constitutes a war criminal now is a much lower bar than ever before. Again, this is generally very good. The second change and more important has been in how wars are fought. Even in the second world war, most battles were fought in battlefields. Soldiers against soldiers.People in uniform against other people in uniform. It was possible to have massive battles without many civilian causalities. This has changed dramatically. There are virtually no wars fought this way anymore, instead, it is guerrilla warfare where one or both sides are not identifiable as soldiers. This is illegal in international law and rightly so because it creates a tremendous number of problems. If you're a NATO soldier in Afghanistan for example, and you see a teenager coming at you on a bike, he might be an innocent teenager but he also might be a Taliban suicide bomber. War isn't a video game where you get extra chances and so soldiers will make mistakes.(Which is what the insurgents want.) Battles are not fought on battlefields, they are fought in crowded city streets.. America and everyone else, is fighting differently because the way to fight is different. (and it is continuing to change-cyber warfare is of increasing importance as are unmanned drones) Ideally, you would avoid going to war in the first place.

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The Pope just landed in Beirut...I hope his visit ends safely with all those anti-American protests goin on,..can't imagine the outcome if he was assassinated or something like that, God forbid.

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The Pope just landed in Beirut...I hope his visit ends safely with all those anti-American protests goin on,..can't imagine the outcome if he was assassinated or something like that, God forbid.

I'm happy for all the Christians here in Lebanon, I really am, but do we have to close all the roads in the country?! :rant:

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I'm happy for all the Christians here in Lebanon, I really am, but do we have to close all the roads in the country?! :rant:

Well considering it's just a 3 day visit and the current instability in the region, I think it's a must.

If you wana discuss closing roads, I think all the bosses like Hariri, Berri, and Jumblatt should move their houses out of Beirut cuz its pissing us off how many roads are closed and the traffic its causing and all that.

But for a 3 day visit it shouldnt be a problem.

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@CHOULO19, just out of curiosity. Do you know how the average Australian perceive Lebanese people?

I didn't think you've heard of Lebanon :P

Seriously though, I have no idea. But I do know that there are about 200,000 Lebanese in Australia so I'm pretty sure you have formed some sort of opinion about us.

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How?

I didn't think you've heard of Lebanon :P

Seriously though, I have no idea. But I do know that there are about 200,000 Lebanese in Australia so I'm pretty sure you have formed some sort of opinion about us.

Hey I was the one who suggested the Lebanese flag should be added...ouch.

Well, let me just tell you that due to few certain terrible individuals from Sydney the Australian-Lebenase community will never be fully accepted into society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sydney_gang_rapes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

However where there is bad, there is good. And this man is most definatly good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazem_El_Masri

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Hey I was the one who suggested the Lebanese flag should be added...ouch.

Well, let me just tell you that due to few certain terrible individuals from Sydney the Australian-Lebenase community will never be fully accepted into society.

http://en.wikipedia....dney_gang_rapes

http://en.wikipedia...._Cronulla_riots

However where there is bad, there is good. And this man is most definatly good: http://en.wikipedia..../Hazem_El_Masri

Yeah I figured that would be the general idea. We tend to get this reputation in the countries were there is Lebanese presence. Lebanese people are....an acquired taste :lol:

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Yeah I figured that would be the general idea. We tend to get this reputation in the countries were there is Lebanese presence. Lebanese people are....an acquired taste :lol:

Lebanese ppl r fukkd in the head

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