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Tobey Gibson

Ruben Loftus-Cheek

Started by Tobey Gibson,

2,770 posts in this topic

Another strange one from Frank. He starts vs Brighton and now left out completely. Only Mountnaldo is safe around Franky..

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With Havertz here one of RLC or Barkley was always extra. We thought Barkley would be sold but Frank rates him and RLC did not used his chances.

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18 minutes ago, Jason said:

Aston Villa reportedly interested in Loftus-Cheek...

 

Would be a decent move for him I think.

I haven't given up on him at all, but in this current moment I can't see him getting enough games to fully overcome his problems if he stays this season. A year out on loan at a PL side could do him a lot of good and depending on how he gets on, there might still be a place for him to return next year. 

Barkley has been playing decently in the first few games this season and is clearly ahead of RLC in Lampard's books at the moment. Ruben was mysteriously missing from the lineup altogether tonight despite the League Cup being one of the best opportunities for him to gain match sharpness so I think there might be some truth to this rumor.

Zouma got his act together out on loan after his bad injury and made a return so I don't see any reason why RLC couldn't as well. 

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For me if RLC was sold I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The guy is pushing 25 and has yet to prove he can keep himself fit for more than six months, still does zero work off the ball and continues to dine off the hype that he built up 7 years ago. 

For sure, Barkley is similar but I do not really see much difference as whilst RLC has a little more quality on the ball at least you know Barkley can stay fit.

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10 minutes ago, King Kante said:

For me if RLC was sold I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The guy is pushing 25 and has yet to prove he can keep himself fit for more than six months, still does zero work off the ball and continues to dine off the hype that he built up 7 years ago. 

For sure, Barkley is similar but I do not really see much difference as whilst RLC has a little more quality on the ball at least you know Barkley can stay fit.

Thing is though, RLC at his best is/was a much better player than Barkley has ever shown to be.

But he needs game time and a continued period without injuries to have any chance of making it. He won't do that at Chelsea atm but if he was loaned out there's a chance he might get there elsewhere.

Under no circumstance would I sell him on a permanent deal now and I don't think there'd be anyone willing to pay good money for him right now anyway due to his achilles problem. He's under contract till 2024 and has no transfer fee amortisation value hanging over his head so a loan should be relatively straightforward to sort out because the loaning club would only need to pay his wages, so for a club like Aston Villa it'd be a low-risk high-reward deal. If he can't get regain his pre-injury level out on loan, a more permanent solution can be found in another year or two but if he were to get back to his best level he would most certainly still be an asset to the club and could take a place in the squad again next year when some changes in midfield are bound to happen (some question marks over Jorginho, Kante, Barkley).

Of course there's a concrete chance he would never return again with younger prospects like Gallagher, Gilmour trying their best to break through but still a loan deal would be 1000x better than selling now. I don't think Lampard has given up on him either.

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Villa loan would be decent. Playing with jack grealish may not be a bad thing and villa whilst aren't a great team may be a better fit for him than if he went to a less attacking (but maybe better) team

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14 minutes ago, Jype said:

Thing is though, RLC at his best is/was a much better player than Barkley has ever shown to be.

But he needs game time and a continued period without injuries to have any chance of making it. He won't do that at Chelsea atm but if he was loaned out there's a chance he might get there elsewhere.

Under no circumstance would I sell him on a permanent deal now and I don't think there'd be anyone willing to pay good money for him right now anyway due to his achilles problem. He's under contract till 2024 and has no transfer fee amortisation value hanging over his head so a loan should be relatively straightforward to sort out because the loaning club would only need to pay his wages, so for a club like Aston Villa it'd be a low-risk high-reward deal. If he can't get regain his pre-injury level out on loan, a more permanent solution can be found in another year or two but if he were to get back to his best level he would most certainly still be an asset to the club and could take a place in the squad again next year when some changes in midfield are bound to happen (some question marks over Jorginho, Kante, Barkley).

Of course there's a concrete chance he would never return again with younger prospects like Gallagher, Gilmour trying their best to break through but still a loan deal would be 1000x better than selling now. I don't think Lampard has given up on him either.

This is all well and good but RLC is 25 in January, he isn't 21 anymore. Further, he has serious deficiencies (zero off the ball work) in his game, that were still clearly there when he had is sole consistent 3 months for us at the end if Sarri's reign. 

Let's be honest, RLC has been riding a hype train since he was 16/17 and there hasn't been any hard proof that the talent he showed in the youth ranks can translate to the pro game on a consistent basis. Sure, he is silky on the ball when in the mood and fit, but that has only been glimsped twice which was the middle of his spell at Palace and then Feb/March-May 2019. That is about a total of 6 months for a 24 year old bloke that made his debut at 17. 

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8 minutes ago, King Kante said:

This is all well and good but RLC is 25 in January, he isn't 21 anymore. Further, he has serious deficiencies (zero off the ball work) in his game, that were still clearly there when he had is sole consistent 3 months for us at the end if Sarri's reign. 

Let's be honest, RLC has been riding a hype train since he was 16/17 and there hasn't been any hard proof that the talent he showed in the youth ranks can translate to the pro game on a consistent basis. Sure, he is silky on the ball when in the mood and fit, but that has only been glimsped twice which was the middle of his spell at Palace and then Feb/March-May 2019. That is about a total of 6 months for a 24 year old bloke that made his debut at 17. 

I don't think at this point anyone's under any illusion that all flaws in Ruben's game will magically disappear and he'll turn into an absolute world beater but that doesn't mean he can't still be a very useful player if he can overcome his current problems. For all his deficiencies, he offers some qualities no one else in the team has and for me that's enough to earn himself a place in the squad but probably not in his current state.

He had a good year out on loan at Palace and under Sarri it wasn't just three months of good performances, I'd say he impressed pretty much every time he played but Sarri only realised that halfway through the season when he began using RLC more regularly. The Ruben from August 2017 - May 2019 was definitely good enough to be a Chelsea player, he only needed a platform to really show what he can do. Even then he might not have been a world class player and with the likes of Havertz having joined he probably wouldn't start in this current Chelsea team even at his best but I won't accept anyone telling me he wasn't a lot better than the likes of Ross Barkley. If he can go on loan to see if he can get back to that level and show some consistency, I'd happily let him go and then see later whether he should come back or not.

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22 hours ago, Costa19 said:

Another strange one from Frank. He starts vs Brighton and now left out completely. Only Mountnaldo is safe around Franky..

Hardly as it Ruben has done anything to put tree ups under Frank. I get he was injured but even Callum after a long lay off had a foot in and did much better at the start of the year. 

Ruben is the same sort of player as Pogba or an Ozil, not playing style wise or stature wise but he is effectively a luxury player and only useful if you have the ball. If he doesnt affect the game in the offensive actions, what does he do? Really? When we don’t have the ball he is liable to be a weakness highlighted by other teams in terms of his languid style and lack of effort or intensity off it, be it pressing or getting back into position.

It may be a bit unfair to brand him as this but even under Sarri I felt the same, he was an issue if we pressed teams because his intensity wasn't the same as the others and he would be on his heels as opposed to going on the triggers. Little things like this can affect your pressing hugely. Its all good everyone has to go together but its got to be coordinated.

The links to Southampton is weird also because they are a high line, pressing sort of team....

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On 24/09/2020 at 0:10 AM, Jype said:

I don't think at this point anyone's under any illusion that all flaws in Ruben's game will magically disappear and he'll turn into an absolute world beater but that doesn't mean he can't still be a very useful player if he can overcome his current problems. For all his deficiencies, he offers some qualities no one else in the team has and for me that's enough to earn himself a place in the squad but probably not in his current state.

He had a good year out on loan at Palace and under Sarri it wasn't just three months of good performances, I'd say he impressed pretty much every time he played but Sarri only realised that halfway through the season when he began using RLC more regularly. The Ruben from August 2017 - May 2019 was definitely good enough to be a Chelsea player, he only needed a platform to really show what he can do. Even then he might not have been a world class player and with the likes of Havertz having joined he probably wouldn't start in this current Chelsea team even at his best but I won't accept anyone telling me he wasn't a lot better than the likes of Ross Barkley. If he can go on loan to see if he can get back to that level and show some consistency, I'd happily let him go and then see later whether he should come back or not.

I would disagree that he was good in the initial part of Sarri's reign or that he was good throughout his whole Palace loan (of which I think he only played 24 games with some of those being sub appearances and with a lot of his starts he would get subbed off.) In both seasons he took a while to get going and had niggly/long term injury problems. 

My views on Barkley v RLC is that both are deeply flawed players. For me, Barkley lacks any football intelligence and doesn't have anywhere near the ability on the ball that some people give him credit for. However, he does make a good fist of recovering the ball and is able to track runners from midfield. RLC on the other hand is completely dire off the ball and cannot a) play 90 minutes of football (even in his good Sarri spell he was always subbed off between 60-70 mins looking knackered) and B) stay off the treatment table to even play 60 minutes consistently across a season. However, he is good on the ball and can be a difference maker.

Hence, as both players are essentially going to play back up to Mount/Havertz the question has to be, which one do you prefer? If you favour pure ability on the ball and are unconcerned about fitness, then RLC is your boy, if you want someone who will always be ready and can help close games out, then it will be Barkley. 

To be honest, I do not really have really strong opinions on which one gets to stay as I think both of them are seriously flawed. These flaws are also why I will not lose any sleep over the final decision as I accept one has to go and who ever does stay will continue to infuriate but in different ways. 

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10 hours ago, Jason said:

Southampton latest to be linked with Loftus-Cheek...

 

Southampton see Loftus-Cheek as a potential loan option – but not McTominay

https://theathletic.com/2090315/2020/09/24/southampton-ruben-loftus-cheek-scott-mctominay-tom-davies/

ruben-loftus-cheek-southampton-chelsea-loan-scaled-e1600949734780-1024x682.jpg

Southampton’s 5-2 home loss to Tottenham Hotspur on Sunday highlighted a gaping hole in Ralph Hasenhuttl’s squad.

Once Oriol Romeu had to be withdrawn early out of fear he was going to earn a second yellow card, the Southampton manager could only turn to Will Smallbone as he tried to prevent the game getting away from his team.

For a 19-year-old to come off the bench and make a difference in a match that was quickly slipping beyond Southampton’s control was always going to be difficult, despite his best efforts.

What it did do though, was re-emphasise the fact they need to sign a midfielder sooner rather than later, especially as Hasenhuttl is going to stick with his new high defensive line despite the tactic being so ruthlessly exploited by Spurs.

Sunday’s second half highlighted how important the central midfielders will be in that system.

During the opening 45 minutes, Romeu and James Ward-Prowse both made a nuisance of themselves, pressing Tottenham at every opportunity. But the intensity dropped after the break and Jose Mourinho’s creative players had time to look up and spray passes beyond the defence for Son Heung-min and Harry Kane to run on to.

What Southampton really need is a player who can come in and hit the ground running or, at the very least, need only a handful of games to get up to speed with Hasenhuttl’s methods.

Having already lost three games on the bounce, two of those in the Premier League, there will be a desire to arrest that slide before it turns into a worrying decline.

While the now-departed Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg was never the most exciting midfielder, he was effective alongside Ward-Prowse, with both players knowing their role in the team and sticking to it religiously. They were disciplined and had the positional awareness to close out danger but, more importantly for Hasenhuttl, they pressed the opposition relentlessly, not allowing them more than a handful of seconds to look up and spot a potential pass.

Mario Lemina and Harrison Reed have also left the club this summer, meaning three central midfielders have gone through the exit door without any coming in the entrance.

Going into this transfer window, strengthening the defence was always Hasenhuttl’s priority. Mohammed Salisu and Kyle Walker-Peters arrived before pre-season and it then became a case of selling players before being able to buy again.

Even though the likes of Guido Carrillo, Sofiane Boufal and Wesley Hoedt are still at the club, there’s been a realisation that the midfield is undercooked. It’s something Hasenhuttl has admitted and is now looking to rectify. With less than two weeks to go before the window closes on October 5 though, time is starting to run out to strengthen that department.

But in Thursday’s press conference, Hasenhuttl made it clear that he will be adding to his squad before the transfer window closes: “I know we will get players in,” he said ahead of the trip to Burnley. “I think it has come to the moment where there are some good opportunities coming up for us. The players who were our No 1 choices were not so easy to get.”

Weston McKennie was one player the club had targeted, but they were unable to get a deal over the line before Juventus swooped in offering the USA midfielder a financial package Southampton just weren’t able to match.

“We have some alternatives now, and we are still keen for them to come to us — whether that’s on loan or permanently,” Hasenhuttl added. “I think we know we need one or two players minimum, maybe three.”

The Athletic is led to believe Southampton are considering both the permanent and loan markets to bolster their midfield ranks.

If a player joins on loan, the expectation is they will come with Premier League experience as opposed to an overseas import likely to need time to get up to speed with the rigours of England’s top flight.

The midfielder attracting plenty of attention from Southampton fans, especially on social media, is Chelsea’s Ruben Loftus-Cheek. The 24-year-old England international has been left out of both of Frank Lampard’s match-day squads since a disappointing performance against Brighton in the opening game of the season.

Following their most recent match on Wednesday, a 6-0 win over Barnsley in the Carabao Cup, Lampard didn’t rule out the possibility of some players leaving, saying: “I keep getting asked about the size of the squad.

“There might be movement, we know that, but nothing is concrete so don’t read too much into those selections at the minute. It will have to be things which are right for the club and individuals and me and in terms of what happens in the next couple of weeks.”

The Athletic understands Southampton are currently monitoring the situation closely, although there is some debate as to whether Loftus-Cheek can play effectively in the No 6 role. But should he become available on loan, it would be an avenue the St Mary’s side would be keen to explore. However, another issue could be his wages.

Loftus-Cheek is believed to be on over £100,000 a week, considerably more than any current Southampton player makes. For any move to come to fruition, it would involve Chelsea subsidising a chunk of his salary.

There could be some hope, though, as Burnley managed to secure a 50/50 wage split with Chelsea when they took midfielder Danny Drinkwater on loan for last season, which shows the London side could be willing to negotiate.

However, as explained by The Athletic last week, Loftus-Cheek is believed to be part of Lampard’s plans this season, although, as another source explained, a lot could happen between now and the end of the transfer window.

One area of concern regarding any move for Loftus-Cheek could be his recent injury record. He sustained a serious achilles injury in a US friendly against MLS club New England Revolution in May last year, meaning he’s played just 288 minutes of first-team football in the past 16 months.

Another name that has been discussed within the club is that of Manchester United’s Scott McTominay — a midfielder Hasenhuttl is said to admire greatly. However, any ambitious move for the Scotland international was effectively ruled out when United didn’t sign Thiago Alcantara. Had the former Barcelona and Bayern Munich star headed to Old Trafford rather than join Liverpool, Southampton believed it could have opened the door for a loan move for 23-year-old McTominay.

Another player linked in recent days has been Everton’s Tom Davies.

On the face of it, the 22-year-old fits the bill. It wouldn’t be too difficult getting him out of Goodison Park as Carlo Ancelotti is well stocked in midfield and he has fallen down the pecking order, starting just one of Everton’s four matches this season — the Carabao Cup win over Salford City — and playing just a single minute in the Premier League. Yet, although he’s a player Southampton have previously monitored, The Athletic revealed this week there has been no contact between the clubs regarding any move.

If Southampton were to sign a player permanently, something they are also working on behind the scenes, then it would be a Moussa Djenepo-type investment. In other words, a young midfielder who has the potential to come in and do a job, but would more than likely need some time to adapt.

The club’s revamped recruitment strategy sees them target “rough diamonds”, who, eventually, can be developed into highly-rated players before being sold for a sizeable profit further down the line.

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Lampard revealed that Loftus-Cheek may well go out on loan...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/28/ruben-loftus-cheek-may-leave-chelsea-on-loan-says-frank-lampard

“I’m very open with Ruben. We’ve had a couple of conversations in the last week. He’s fit as a fiddle so he can play week in, week out. He needs to play. He’s done a lot of work now. He would have been playing earlier if it wasn’t for lockdown and restart. There’s a possibility that Ruben may go out to play games because that would be great for him.

“We hold him in very high regard. I certainly do and that could be a good option for him. If that’s not the right option he’ll be competitive in this squad as well. I’m relaxed about it but I want to find the best path for Ruben and I want to find the best path for us.”

“He’s had a difficult time,” Lampard said. “The injury was a bad one. He hasn’t played as many minutes for this club as he would have liked for different reasons. Just before his injury he was playing really well and contributing. I was always looking forward to him getting back fit and working with him.

“He wants to play and the reality is I have a lot of competition in those areas. Ruben is versatile. He can play different roles in the midfield and sometimes off the side, so I was really looking forward to working with him because I know what he can do. He gives us something slightly different in terms of his physicality. But there is also a priority for everyone that Ruben plays games. We’ll do what feels right.”

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On 25/09/2020 at 1:26 AM, King Kante said:

I would disagree that he was good in the initial part of Sarri's reign or that he was good throughout his whole Palace loan (of which I think he only played 24 games with some of those being sub appearances and with a lot of his starts he would get subbed off.) In both seasons he took a while to get going and had niggly/long term injury problems. 

My views on Barkley v RLC is that both are deeply flawed players. For me, Barkley lacks any football intelligence and doesn't have anywhere near the ability on the ball that some people give him credit for. However, he does make a good fist of recovering the ball and is able to track runners from midfield. RLC on the other hand is completely dire off the ball and cannot a) play 90 minutes of football (even in his good Sarri spell he was always subbed off between 60-70 mins looking knackered) and B) stay off the treatment table to even play 60 minutes consistently across a season. However, he is good on the ball and can be a difference maker.

Hence, as both players are essentially going to play back up to Mount/Havertz the question has to be, which one do you prefer? If you favour pure ability on the ball and are unconcerned about fitness, then RLC is your boy, if you want someone who will always be ready and can help close games out, then it will be Barkley. 

To be honest, I do not really have really strong opinions on which one gets to stay as I think both of them are seriously flawed. These flaws are also why I will not lose any sleep over the final decision as I accept one has to go and who ever does stay will continue to infuriate but in different ways. 

Barkley for me and you've summed up why, he can keep himself fit and do a decent job tactically.

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I really hope this activity is being made on the basis that a bona-fide natural defensive midfielder is being brought in.

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