Andreas Christensen

[coolhead23 1,146]

4 hours ago, Robchels said:

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question.

Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out.

So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma.

You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems.

Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).  

Completely agree. Modern day defenders are becoming ball playing CBs even Goalkeepers are expected to do the same. 

[the wes 7,212]

He's Just not good enough Ake is better CB than AC 

[Special Juan 27,092]

Nothing I have seen from him tells me he can be any good, never mind here.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

The problem with ball playing defenders is that they are picked for their ball playing ability over their defending ability which should be priority.

De Ligt is ball playing CB, but he is great CB because he can actualy defend and command the back line. Terry was the same.

We have Zouma who is good defender and average with the ball. And we have Christensen who is average defender and ok with the ball. But if we pick worse defender out of the two just because he can pass, then we are doomed. Our defence will never be strong enough.

Obviously it would be ideal to have great defenders who can also pass, but we dont have those right now. And picking your CBs based on how good they are on the ball instead of how they defend, its stupid, regardless if the game evolved to this point.

What good is their quality on the ball if they get shat on against every decent attacker? 

[BlueLyon 9,359]

On 4/16/2019 at 3:14 AM, Robchels said:

Sure, but that's a preference of style not of the players in question.

Once again, you give Zouma to *any* possession side and he's not even sitting on the bench. Barcelona played years and years with Mascherano as a CB. Same way that Zouma would definitely work in a more direct system, where the CBs need to be aggressive and chase like you pointed out.

So, "reliable" is relative. In a possession system, Andreas would be far more "reliable" than Zouma.

You don't need to be strong when you keep the football and pass it along quickly. The opposition never gets to enough 50/50s to cause you problems.

Zouma is very poor on the ball and a particularly bad passer. Perhaps Everton is his peak... wouldn't surprise me if he's moved there permanently. The trend these days is for ball-playing CBs (I don't make the rules).  

I rather see Zouma properly defend against attackers and just hoof the ball away compared to the shit show Christensen puts, regardless of style we play.

Ball playing CBs are the way to go and I prefer those. But Christensen is average defender at best and you always rate CBs based on their ability to defend first and then their ball abilities. The later separates their quality, but if the first is not good enough, no one will even consider them. If all we want is ball retention and f*ck defending, then why dont we just play Jorginho and Kovacic in CB pairing. 

If Christensen was De Ligt, I wouldnt even argue with you. But between Christensen and Zouma, we have more chance to retain clean sheet with the later. Thats the priority for the defence, regardless of the style. 

And Zouma isnt even that bad to make simple passes to Azpi or Luiz, but true he isnt anywhere great with long passes, althrough he also isnt as bad. I remember he was actualy surprisingly decent when he was still playing here. Christensen on the other hand doesnt contribute anywhere near as much as Luiz either. And he looks unreliably shaky when under pressure. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,191]

Let's be real here. Every opposition would target Zouma when we try and play out from the back. The same way they target Dave and Alonso. 

Both Zouma and Christensen aren't good enough for the standard we are looking for. 

[robsblubot 3,205]

1 hour ago, BlueLyon said:

I rather see Zouma properly defend against attackers and just hoof the ball away compared to the shit show Christensen puts, regardless of style we play.

Ball playing CBs are the way to go and I prefer those. But Christensen is average defender at best and you always rate CBs based on their ability to defend first and then their ball abilities. The later separates their quality, but if the first is not good enough, no one will even consider them. If all we want is ball retention and f*ck defending, then why dont we just play Jorginho and Kovacic in CB pairing. 

If Christensen was De Ligt, I wouldnt even argue with you. But between Christensen and Zouma, we have more chance to retain clean sheet with the later. Thats the priority for the defence, regardless of the style. 

And Zouma isnt even that bad to make simple passes to Azpi or Luiz, but true he isnt anywhere great with long passes, althrough he also isnt as bad. I remember he was actualy surprisingly decent when he was still playing here. Christensen on the other hand doesnt contribute anywhere near as much as Luiz either. And he looks unreliably shaky when under pressure. 

Andreas is CHOs age in CB years.

[Special Juan 27,092]

2 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Let's be real here. Every opposition would target Zouma when we try and play out from the back. The same way they target Dave and Alonso. 

Both Zouma and Christensen aren't good enough for the standard we are looking for. 

Zouma is a better defender than Luiz, he's been an absolute rock for Everton this season. If this transfer ban sticks then we will not go far wrong with Rudiger and Zouma as our two CB's next season.

Christensen shouldn't even be in the thinking, he's just not up to it.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,773]

2 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

The problem with ball playing defenders is that they are picked for their ball playing ability over their defending ability which should be priority.

This encapsulates a problem with our bying strategy. To be an elite team requires elite players. Elite players can do the whole of the job, not just a part of it.

[MoroccanBlue 5,191]

35 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

Zouma is a better defender than Luiz, he's been an absolute rock for Everton this season. If this transfer ban sticks then we will not go far wrong with Rudiger and Zouma as our two CB's next season.

Christensen shouldn't even be in the thinking, he's just not up to it.

I agree that should be the pairing if the transfer ban sticks. (even though we will all be clenching our arses when ever Zouma gets the ball under pressure)

However, this team desperately needs quality and a leader at the back, and I find no better solution than Romagnoli. 

[Special Juan 27,092]

9 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I agree that should be the pairing if the transfer ban sticks. (even though we will all be clenching our arses when ever Zouma gets the ball under pressure)

However, this team desperately needs quality and a leader at the back, and I find no better solution than Romagnoli. 

The problem being, that if the transfer ban is lifted, I really have no faith in this board get anything right at all. Our player identification for the last 3-4 seasons has been horrific.

We all on here pluck names out of the air, the thing with the board is they spin a special wheel after a night on the whiskey and what comes out we get it seems.

[robsblubot 3,205]

On 4/23/2019 at 8:54 AM, BlueLyon said:

I rather see Zouma properly defend against attackers and just hoof the ball away compared to the shit show Christensen puts, regardless of style we play.

Ball playing CBs are the way to go and I prefer those. But Christensen is average defender at best and you always rate CBs based on their ability to defend first and then their ball abilities. The later separates their quality, but if the first is not good enough, no one will even consider them. If all we want is ball retention and f*ck defending, then why dont we just play Jorginho and Kovacic in CB pairing. 

If Christensen was De Ligt, I wouldnt even argue with you. But between Christensen and Zouma, we have more chance to retain clean sheet with the later. Thats the priority for the defence, regardless of the style. 

And Zouma isnt even that bad to make simple passes to Azpi or Luiz, but true he isnt anywhere great with long passes, althrough he also isnt as bad. I remember he was actualy surprisingly decent when he was still playing here. Christensen on the other hand doesnt contribute anywhere near as much as Luiz either. And he looks unreliably shaky when under pressure. 

Hmm ball playing CBs “properly defend” by keeping possession. Sure they need to throw a tackle here and there, anticipate, and def win headers esp in set pieces, but The most important is being comfortable on the ball esp passing.

hazard is one of the defensive problems we have in the system we try to employ. because of his free role. Nobody enjoys a free role at city. Messi does at Barca, but he’s a high working rate genius. Those sides employ a high press where attacking players swarm the opposition until they regain possession. They only rest when they have the football and by passing it around.

So, I’m not disagreeing regarding Andreas, because his development has indeed stalled, which is worrying. He’s prob not that match fit tho.

I am however disagreeing that Zouma can ever play in a remotely possession side. Perhaps you are thinking of a more direct system. Rudiger, who’s a lot better than zouma with the ball is already questionable in that system.

On 4/23/2019 at 10:45 AM, Robchels said:

Andreas is CHOs age in CB years.

I meant that it’s too soon to declare Andreas a flop. CBs mature late and at different progression rates. No guarantees, of course.

[NikkiCFC 7,560]

He is so weak mentally and physically. Ake,  Zouma are both better. Also is he our only player without scoring in the last two seasons? Oh Kovacic also but only for one season. 

[OneMoSalah 8,609]

Hes been shite recently but I think hes trying to be too aggressive in the air and in the tackle.

I think he knows hes 3rd choice and trying to impress which as a younger player maybe makes him want to compete for everything when perhaps he should just stand or get tight but dont try and tackle (Rudiger and Luiz also still have these tendencies but AC doing it is interesting because he didnt do it as often the previous season, he was quite clean in taking the ball and won headers without conceding fouls).

He still has a future here, he had a great 5 months under Conte last season before his wobble and despite inconsistencies this season and recently very poor performances I still think hes better than Zouma and Ake.

[1905didierblue 748]

Was decent when he came on today.

[MoroccanBlue 5,191]

Good game bar the hiccup. Now let's see if he can maintain that defensive composure for this final run. 

[Clockwork 1,762]

AC biggest weakness is physicality, yes he needs gain some weight. But another big issue is the lack game time, no training sessions will get a player ready for the physicality of a PL game. 

AC has done a lot of good things this season, 1-2 games should not change that. 

[Tomo 21,681]

11 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

AC biggest weakness is physicality, yes he needs gain some weight. But another big issue is the lack game time, no training sessions will get a player ready for the physicality of a PL game. 

AC has done a lot of good things this season, 1-2 games should not change that. 

I think his biggest issue is in his head, when he's at his best he reads the game so well he doesn't have to rely too much on his physical edge. We saw those early days after his return from loan that he has the potential to be in the same league as JT and Ricky but at the minute lets any set back get to his head, the Barca game last year turned him from one of the best young CB's in the world to a Titus Bramble parody who at his lowest point had to get took out of games for his own good (Anfield league cup this year).

He has recovered from that phase now however In a peverse way im looking forward to his next mistake, because how he reacts this time round will tell me a lot about how his career will pan out.