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BlueLion.

Juan Mata

Started by BlueLion.,

10,760 posts in this topic

He had a couple of bad games which happened to every single player of our team. How was he awful today? he was good, he played a lot of key passes, you can watch it again.. He didn't deserve to be subbed for that. Oscar got lucky with that deflected cross in Torres goal which was a critical moment in the game.

Spot on.

Almost every CFC player has had a fair number of shit games this season, including Jose's favorites.

Hazard was shit at the beginning of the season (still, he was never dropped by Mou).

Oscar has also had a decent number of shit games.

Mata is unlucky that from the very beginning Jose didn't consider him a starter.

Surely this is a tough situation for him. I like him very much and I hope he'll manage to earn his place. It'll be hard for him, but not impossible.

Azpinator and Johnnymhl like this

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Where should he look for it, on the bench ? That´s where he is gonny be most of the times. Jose will never forgive him for today´s rants.

That would be probably the main narrative now when Mata is starting the games on the benck. But the reality is - under Mourinho Ramos played despite repeated acts of direct disobedience, Coentrao played even after his misbehaviors, heck, Vitor Baia got away with a good selection of insults and attempt at physical agression towards Jose.

So I very much doubt that throwing a bit of hissy fit will be the reason Mata gets benched. Not good enough contribution to the team's play will be.

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It has nothing to do with form......

Its the fact that he is playing on the wings and in the center, rather than staying mainly in the center role. In addition, he is required to use a lot of energy pressing..

Mata still is the same player he was last season, its just his role and current tactics arent beneficial for him to have incredible stats....

It surely does him no good, but still I think that he is generally not at his best.

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I've got a lot of respect for Mata. Poor team or not, he pretty much carried the team for 2 years. Clearly isn't going to be an important part of the squad anymore so if he goes abroad and we can get at least £20m for him, I'll be happy.

United and Liverpool fans reckon they can get him - they can both fuck right off.

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Mata was never part of Mourinho plan....

Mourinho plan was to slowly fade out Mata so he wouldnt get the supporters disapproval for the direct sale of Mata.....

In addition, Rooney didnt want to be at United or for Moyes... Had we swap and added cash, we might of had a chance at him. rooney fits the team better than Torres, eto, ba or lukaku.

Best message of the entire thread!

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That would be probably the main narrative now when Mata is starting the games on the benck. But the reality is - under Mourinho Ramos played despite repeated acts of direct disobedience, Coentrao played even after his misbehaviors, heck, Vitor Baia got away with a good selection of insults and attempt at physical agression towards Jose.

So I very much doubt that throwing a bit of hissy fit will be the reason Mata gets benched. Not good enough contribution to the team's play will be.

You may call it as you like. The bottom line, Jose does not tolerate it. Just track Jose dealings with others.

Mata has got himself in very difficult situation.

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You may call it as you like. The bottom line, Jose does not tolerate it. Just track Jose dealings with others.

Mata has got himself in very difficult situation.

I just gave you 3 examples of Jose's dealings with others - after a lot worse things than Mata's show today. And there are more, from Materazzi to Carvalho. So by past examples his behavior alone isn't enough to get him in trouble. His underperformance on the other hand is a real reason for problems.

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If Mata is to be sold this month the money has to immediately be reinvested in a top class player. If it's PSG then swap him with one of their top class players in a position we need. Obviously there's absolutely ZERO possibility we can ever sell him to a Prem side unless we got Rooney in exchange. If we just do a straight sale and pocket the cash then it'll be pointless. Then we'd just be thinning our depth out for no reason when we need it the most.

How about this sort of "out there" thought: Mata for Özil direct swap. Would suit both sides brilliantly. Özil and Jose are clearly still very close and I feel he certainly would've went for him had he known Madrid were looking to move him. Always got the feeling that Özil kind of settled for Arsenal just to get the hell out of Madrid. Was never his #1 option. Think he'd love playing with Jose again.

Will never happen, I know.

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I understand your sentiment, but I can still see Mata going for £30-40m purely based on his ability and age.

A lot of the players you've mentioned were bought at around Mata's age, so they went for exorbitant fees and were sold for very little or nothing considering they were either touching 30 or on the wrong side of it by the time they were moved on. The exception is Zhirkov. You said he went for peanuts but he actually went for around £13m which was an exceptional fee considering we bought him for £15-18m and he was largely unimpressive.

The purchase of Mata (and others of 2011 like Lukaku & Courtois) however signaled a significant shift in our purchasing behaviour up until that point as we had started to buy potential in the age range of 17-22 and not just established players or at youth level like the years before. Mata, Lukaku and Courtois have all flourished since their purchase (discounting this year for Mata) and we would not accept selling Lukaku or Courtois for little or nothing. Mata's first two years here should still stand as a testament of what he is capable of; it would be the main reason clubs want him after all.

That, coupled with the example of Robben & Zhirkov - that being, if the right club wants him they will still pay a considerable amount - is why it's not totally unrealistic for people to imagine him going between £30-40m. Again, I emphasise right club because we're not going to transfer list him and expect £30m+, but If a club comes in for him it's the very least we should be looking for. This is all based on a club wanting Mata, not us wanting to get rid of him, which I cannot see. I think we would rather keep him than sell him for a little amount or, at the very least, for him to be used as a significant bargaining chip in an exchange deal.

@Peace. This point you raised......“all the players we have decided to part ways with have had the possibility to go quite easely. Kalou, Malouda, Bosingwa, Alex, Anelka, Belletti, Joe Cole, Ballack, Deco”....that’s a big question mark for me. Of course you’re right that when Chelsea sees a player as being surplus they tend to move them on for a very low fee or just wait until their contract expires. But like @Mak already mentioned, those players ….i.e Drogba, Ballack, Deco – these were all players in their 30s. Mata is only 25 years old and coming off the back of a remarkable season. His situation is not at all comparable to those players that Chelsea basically let go for nothing. The only player that Chelsea sold that we can use as a comparison to Mata, is Robben. But just look at how much the club sold him for, 35 million euros. Considerably more than the 18 million (euros) fee that they paid for him.

I'll respond to you both here.

I know that we cannot completely compare Mata situation to all of these names that I mentioned, since all of them were pretty old (excepted Zirkhov, Robben and Kalou that were still young). To be truthful, my point was not by any mean to say that since we let go in most cases our players for free then Mata will leave for nothing. It's quite the contrary — I was name-dropping just to stress out the fact we have pratically never tried to get any money from the players we were letting go, could it be even a symbolic amount such as one million or even 500 000 pounds. In other words, that example was only meant to argue that we would not act like Lévy did with Bale and Modric, or even Self Pity FC with the ladyboy. Now what I mean ?

All in all, I am not denying that it is possible that a team puts on the table £35m or more. Such a thing is not unthinkable, and it could well happen if a team is within a panic moment, as TX pointed out. I was just responding kinda indirectly to the few people that were offended by the fact that some people were saying that Mata could not command a fee of the likes of £40m. We kinda are on the same line of thoughts although we do not present things from the same perspective !

I presume we will be agree to resume like that :

* if the team that wants to buy him is in a panic mode, then we will be able to get something around £40m ;

* if the team that wants to buy him can afford to not sign him and is wise enough, then that team can have him at a cut price or in an exchange deal.

P.S. I mean, this summer the consensus was to not offer more than £30 m or so for Rooney because he was more or less marginalized... It is more or less the same thing for Mata, so no needs to be offended if we don't get a record fee for him.

The Mak likes this

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Why the need to be all doom and gloom? Mourinho surely knows the meaning of SQUAD DEPTH, even if it's looking bad for Mata atm, doesn't equal with him finished in our squad. We've had squad depth problems before, big problems FFS, why start judging him finished at the club? I'm being mesmerized by the Hazard-Willian-Oscar atm, but Mata is goddamn very important for us, and I hope that he feels that way, and we surely have to look forward to having him, bench or as a starter.

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we need someone who's going to pass the ball through defenders to make a 1vs1 situation like Hazard for the first time did today.

So we need someone to pass the ball through defences like Hazard did for Oscar's first chance, or Hazard did for Oscar's goal?

How about Hazard? Or Willian?

I don't disagree that Mata has been great over the last couple of seasons, but we weren't. We're now looking like we could be a great team....I'd sacrifice Mata's Chelsea career at the alter of Jose for that to happen.

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If you look at how many players have been 'dropped' or simply left out of the team this season (Azpi, Luiz, Cahill, Mikel, Cole, Cech, Torres) then why Mata thinks he has a divine right to start I don't know. No-one else has given that reaction and the majority have reacted well and improved their performance.

Mata hasn't. Very disappointed in his reaction and he's no fool. He knows the media very well and knows exactly what they will be looking for.

I have to agree there has been many plauers dropped particularly David Luiz and he hasn't reacted like that.

Can someone tell me, all that stuff after the Liverpool game about him getting to go Portugal yet he was sitting in he stands with Lampard Sr ???

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I have to agree there has been many plauers dropped particularly David Luiz and he hasn't reacted like that.

Can someone tell me, all that stuff after the Liverpool game about him getting to go Portugal yet he was sitting in he stands with Lampard Sr ???

Mourinho was just joking when he said. Obviously Luiz wouldn't be going to Portugal at this time with games coming thick and fast!

The Skipper likes this

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Mou wants his attacking players be decisive and play with speed when on the ball and on the counter. Juan just not a good fit to how Mou wants to play even de bruyne is a much more natural fit to play under Mou.

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Theres nobody in the Chelsea team that has the genuises of Mata imho for all that i like the workrate of Willian,Oscar,Hazard,and would like Schurrle to rise to their level,but the type of player that Mata is they are too few and far between to find,for all the talk about how Roman wants Cfc to play surley players like Mata should be built around ffs...Has Jose not watched what Mata has brought the last 2years,He could and should be heading to Zola road of Chelsea glory

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Instead of buying Schürrle/Willian and keeping KDB when we wasn't even gonna be part of this team we should have simply brought in a top midfielder so our best player from the last 2 years doesn't have to be sacrificed.

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