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BlueLion.

Juan Mata

Started by BlueLion.,

10,768 posts in this topic

Yet a 35 year old Lampard is good enough for Chelsea to build the system around lol...

no one wants to build a system around lamps

Mourinho does. He changes his personnel, other players' roles and even formation in order to accommodate Lampard in the side and hide his deficiencies. He picks him regardless of form. He even refuses to buy better players to challenge Lampard's position in order to further guarantee him a place. Next thing you know Lampard will get a new contract for next season because he's such an important regular starter this season.

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Mourinho does. He changes his personnel, other players' roles and even formation in order to accommodate Lampard in the side and hide his deficiencies. He picks him regardless of form. He even refuses to buy better players to challenge Lampard's position in order to further guarantee him a place. Next thing you know Lampard will get a new contract for next season because he's such an important regular starter this season.

That's complete rubbish. The system isn't built around Lampard in the slightest - if anything it's built around Oscar and Hazard. Right now we have a two or three man midfield system and only four regular midfielders. Of those four, only one has what you would call proper forward passing ability which is why he's played more than he probably should have. The problem with Mikel and Rami is that they aren't that great at moving the ball forward to unsettle defences and you need that to create space for the attackers.

Nonsense about Mourinho refusing to buy better players really adds nothing to the debate.

pHaRaOn likes this

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I do not understand, why the person who is wanting Mata to play, is selfish and not a real fan of the club? Maybe, we who want Mata, we have good vision for the future? We realise that when Mata leave, he will punish us in future. Even if the team is not weaked- which it will be, very weakened, losing the best player. Another team will be more strong. And this is bad.

Everybody want what is best for Chelsea, correct? Mata is the best player in the team. He proves this, two years in a row. What is best for Chelsea, is that Mata is playing.

I think it is the people who are saying 'Mourinho knows best' are the people who are holding back the club. Why should Mourinho know best? Why is he so special? The fact is, nobody knows best, so telling people to shut their eye and support Mourinho 100% is not the right thing. Why should he be not criticised, questioned?

And where is everybody saying, 'I am Chelsea fan! Fuck off Mata!', where are they when Lampard is getting contract extension, even though he is not good enough? You cannot take the position of ivory tower, if you are supporting Lampard last year. If you do this, then automatically, you have the precedent, where you have let your love for a player get ahead of the club's interest.

Where is everybody saying, trust manager, Mourinho knows what he doing, where are they when Benitez, Villas-Boas, Scolari, Grant is the manager? Telling him to fuck off, this is where they are.

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Mourinho does. He changes his personnel, other players' roles and even formation in order to accommodate Lampard in the side and hide his deficiencies. He picks him regardless of form. He even refuses to buy better players to challenge Lampard's position in order to further guarantee him a place. Next thing you know Lampard will get a new contract for next season because he's such an important regular starter this season.

That's complete rubbish. The system isn't built around Lampard in the slightest - if anything it's built around Oscar and Hazard. Right now we have a two or three man midfield system and only four regular midfielders. Of those four, only one has what you would call proper forward passing ability which is why he's played more than he probably should have. The problem with Mikel and Rami is that they aren't that great at moving the ball forward to unsettle defences and you need that to create space for the attackers.

Nonsense about Mourinho refusing to buy better players really adds nothing to the debate.

More like you are in denial than I am telling nonsense. How else you could explain Mourinho change from 4231 to 433 when Oscar and Hazard are already playing well regardless and the only midfielder clearly struggling in 4231 is Lampard. He chooses Oscar instead of Mata at 10 only because Oscar is more likely to cover the ground Lampard is supposed to cover originally but fails to do so. How else you could explain Mourinho spent another 50 millions on more attacking midfielders when there are already plenty in the squad but fail to buy a single defensive midfielder? You really think 50 millions couldn't get you a world class midfielder who could take Lampard's place if the club really want it enough?

The defense is still built around Terry and the midfield is still built around Lampard like it's 2004. Any people with eyes can see that.

lionsden and Sheva. like this

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Tbf the point about the 4-3-3 and Lampard is fair. He's the only one that the system really favours, since he can have the freedom to go forward and attack as much as he likes.

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Also since you said Mata is not someone worthy to build a side around, but then what have Oscar and Hazard done to show that they are more worthy to do so?

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More like you are in denial than I am telling nonsense. How else you could explain Mourinho change from 4231 to 433 when Oscar and Hazard are already playing well regardless and the only midfielder clearly struggling in 4231 is Lampard. He chooses Oscar instead of Mata at 10 only because Oscar is more likely to cover the ground Lampard is supposed to cover originally but fails to do so. How else you could explain Mourinho spent another 50 millions on more attacking midfielders when there are already plenty in the squad but fail to buy a single defensive midfielder? You really think 50 millions couldn't get you a world class midfielder who could take Lampard's place if the club really want it enough?

The defense is still built around Terry and the midfield is still built around Lampard like it's 2004. Any people with eyes can see that.

The 433 is built around improving the midfield, which is woeful at times with or without Lampard. The 4231 struggles with any combination of our 3 midfielders, so he changed it around. I'm not sure why the club didn't spend money on a defensive midfielder, but I'm not privy to their efforts to do so.

To say that the team is built around Lampard is fucking laughable.

Tbf the point about the 4-3-3 and Lampard is fair. He's the only one that the system really favours, since he can have the freedom to go forward and attack as much as he likes.

It favours the whole fucking team because any combination of those 3 midfielders seems to be woefully under-fucking-performing.

TorontoChelsea and Barbara like this

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there is no obligation to start him. he doesn't fit well with a counter-attacking system. Works far better in a game where Chelsea's trying to break down a stubborn defence

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It favours the whole fucking team because any combination of those 3 midfielders seems to be woefully under-fucking-performing.

It favoured the team against a bad side like West Ham. Tbf it was a good call that game, they dominated our 4-2-3-1 last season and their long ball tactics et al were all well contained.

But otherwise we still need that 3rd attacking midfielder, we can't be parking the bus all over the place against average teams.

We stand a better chance of scoring with 4 attacking players on the pitch, not with 2 + Oscar fucking around out wide like against Basel.

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Surely the likes of Mata, KDB, Schurrle deserve minutes now?

Mata and Schurrle will surely get playing time in December but I doubt KdB will get minutes. Especially if Mikel-Ramires-Lampard continues in midfield

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there is no obligation to start him. he doesn't fit well with a counter-attacking system. Works far better in a game where Chelsea's trying to break down a stubborn defence

Agree. I thought that's how Mourinho would share game time between Oscar and Mata, with the former playing games where we adopt a counter attacking system, and Mata playing against teams who come to SB and don't leave their half.

But i guess he had other plans... :lol:

Barbara likes this

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Yeah but don't think you're helping your case when you repeat such stuff...

And don't get why people have to take the easy way out and jump to conclusions that anybody that wants Mata to start is immediately deemed as putting players before club first or not being supportive of the team as a whole.

Yeah I think some posters have actually raised perfectly legitimate reasons as to why Oscar deserves to be starting in the hole over Mata. I don't necessarily agree, but that's okay....people will obviously have their own ideas that differs greatly from mine about what's best for the team, at the end of the day it's really just a matter of individuals' preferences. What does my head in though is this whole thing of "you're not a true supporter if......" So if you genuinely believe that Mata's involvement will benefit the team more than Oscar's then you're supporting the player over the club but it's not supporting a player over the club if you prefer Oscar over Mata? What's the difference?

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Yeah I think some posters have actually raised perfectly legitimate reasons as to why Oscar deserves to be starting in the hole over Mata. I don't necessarily agree, but that's okay....people will obviously have their own ideas that differs greatly from mine about what's best for the team, at the end of the day it's really just a matter of individuals' preferences. What does my head in though is this whole thing of "you're not a true supporter if......" So if you genuinely believe that Mata's involvement will benefit the team more than Oscar's then you're supporting the player over the club but it's not supporting a player over the club if you prefer Oscar over Mata? What's the difference?

Because favoring Oscar over mata is what jose wants and having it the other way round goes against the popular opinion as majority are Jose bootlickers. straight logic there. The people that now see mata as a liability and inferior to oscar where the same people that rated the Spaniard as not only our best player but also a top 3 player in the epl last season. It's no coincidence that their change in opinion coincided with Mou's decision to drop mata in favor of Oscar.

Mou could favor Charlie adam over maradona in his prime and some fans will still find a way to make it sound like it's a reasonable and logical decision.

ephreak likes this

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The people that now see mata as a liability and inferior to oscar where the same people that rated the Spaniard as not only our best player but also a top 3 player in the epl last season.

It is possible to think that he's one of the best players in the league but also a liability in a certain type of team.

Personally I always thought we'd eventually have to choose between Oscar or Mata at some point.

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It is possible to think that he's one of the best players in the league but also a liability in a certain type of team.

Personally I always thought we'd eventually have to choose between Oscar or Mata at some point.

So what you are basically saying is a player that is highly regarded by most people (including neutrals) as one of the finest playmakers in Europe and has consistently performed at elite level for 2 seasons in a row should and does deserve to be relegated to the bench on the basis of "tactical inflexibility".

Since I have been watching football, clubs have always built a team around its best and most influential outfield players and managers devise tactics that suits and gets the best out of them.

And what does that say about mourinho? That he's a manager incapable of changing tactics or playing any other style apart from counter attacking football . if mata can be criticized for lacking tactical flexibility then it should also be fair to label Jose a one trick pony too right?

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So what you are basically saying is a player that is highly regarded by most people (including neutrals) as one of the finest playmakers in Europe and has consistently performed at elite level for 2 seasons in a row should and does deserve to be relegated to the bench on the basis of "tactical inflexibility".

What I'm saying is that if you have another option who you think offers more to the team then there's no problem with using him. I know you don't think Oscar is a playmaker but most people (including neutrals) do.

Since I have been watching football, clubs have always built a team around its best and most influential outfield players and managers devise tactics that suits and gets the best out of them.

Managers have also looked to change the way players play the game in order to better serve their philosophy. Our best and most influential player this season has been Oscar as well.

And what does that say about mourinho? That he's a manager incapable of changing tactics or playing any other style apart from counter attacking football . if mata can be criticized for lacking tactical flexibility then it should also be fair to label Jose a one trick pony too right?

Sure you can.

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Because favoring Oscar over mata is what jose wants and having it the other way round goes against the popular opinion as majority are Jose bootlickers. straight logic there. The people that now see mata as a liability and inferior to oscar where the same people that rated the Spaniard as not only our best player but also a top 3 player in the epl last season. It's no coincidence that their change in opinion coincided with Mou's decision to drop mata in favor of Oscar.

Mou could favor Charlie adam over maradona in his prime and some fans will still find a way to make it sound like it's a reasonable and logical decision.

I remember before we played Barcelona at The Nou Camp under Di Matteo, many people didn't want Mata to start that match for the same reason he (seemingly) lost his place to Oscar this term.

Mata (like every player) has his weaknesses's but because we were so reliant on him (to the point if he didn't turn up we would almost certainly drop points) people were in denial.

Barbara and SeB like this

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