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Domino-

Thibaut Courtois

Started by Domino-,

7,943 posts in this topic

He used to be my favorite player, but to be honest I'm starting to go back to my old opinion: replacing Cech for Courtois was a mistake and hard to explain.

Cech was 32 years old when we got Courtois back, he is not old for a GK and he easily have at least more 5 years at top level. He wasn't as solid as before, but still one of the best in the world. We weren't watching every Atletico's games with Courtois, then we had YouTube, UCL crucial games and big games against Barcelona and Atlético. At this point I'm convinced he is not as solid as we thought. He can make some impossible saves, but in the same game he can conced a defensible goal. 2014 UCL Final he suffered a ridiculous goal from Marcelo. Last season I can remember Silva's goal in UCL, this season he was pretty bad in that Cavani goal. He still is a good GK, but I don't think at the end of the day Cech is worst than him. Cech was a club legend

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On 05/03/2016 at 6:48 PM, Kieran. said:

I don't think people are going overboard. People are concerned because he hasn't been good since he came back from injury. How many more soft goals conceded til you're concerned Tom?

Im concerned he has let in a few soft goals yes, but like with Costa this season, I'm not worried in the medium to long term, he is a world class keeper and its only a matter of time before he returns to that status, after all Cech had his wobbles too.

I'm also not sure dropping him for Begovic even temporarily is the answer, despite him being far from his best he has still made impossible saves Asmir wouldn't have got near, Martial, Lingaard, Ibra for example, their is an argument he wouldn't have let in the same soft goals but even that isn't 100% certain, Davis vs Saints, Naismith's 3rd, Benteke and the goal Kiev scored in London he should have done a lot better with on every occasion.

Tibo needs to wake up a bit, but heis the least if our problems in the grande scheme of things.

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Said it like 20 times that he should've been shipped off for £30m+ to any of the top clubs who would've paid that in a heartbeat for him so we could keep Cech 2-3 more seasons, buy a top player from Atletico then just scout up another goalie 'wunderkid' when Cech's done.

The board wanted a scouting mission to pay off so much they disregarded a legend who's the better player.

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4 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

Never liked how he got his starting place here. But I accepted it because he was our future. 

 

What exactly are you saying by that ? I remember clearly when Mourinho tried to bring Thibaut back in 2013 but he was already tied to another season with Atletico and Mou said that unfortunately they have to wait another year for him.

After he eventually come back he was chosen because he was simply the better goalkeeper. There were no two questions about that as Cech was relatively poor and Courtois outstanding. Shocking that I can't recall the exact games but I remember I was reading an article when there was pointed out where Mourinho had enough of Cech. And please, Mourinho is the biggest opportunitist around and we know that, he choose Courtois because he was the better player who could help him land the title.

 

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1 hour ago, Tomo said:

Im concerned he has let in a few soft goals yes, but like with Costa this season, I'm not worried in the medium to long term, he is a world class keeper and its only a matter of time before he returns to that status, after all Cech had his wobbles too.

I'm also not sure dropping him for Begovic even temporarily is the answer, despite him being far from his best he has still made impossible saves Asmir wouldn't have got near, Martial, Lingaard, Ibra for example, their is an argument he wouldn't have let in the same soft goals but even that isn't 100% certain, Davis vs Saints, Naismith's 3rd, Benteke and the goal Kiev scored in London he should have done a lot better with on every occasion.

Tibo needs to wake up a bit, but heis the least if our problems in the grande scheme of things.

Courtois is not a reliable GK. Even during last season he was making the same mistakes. Its no like he is under a bad form, its just the case this team is less solid in defense, so the opponents would create more chances. Courtois is the typical GK that can make one impossible save and minutes later concede an easy goal.

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A 23 year old Cech and a 23 year old Courtois there's a chasm in ability. Cech admittedly played behind a far better defence but he took the place of a world class keeper in Cudicini and in his first season only let in 15 goals. He commanded his area communicated with his back four and was a massive presence. Courtois is a major talent but doesn't command his area and keeps parrying shots towards the goalmouth and can on occasion look very nervy. He's been at fault for most of the goals we have conceded recently and  I don't think he should be dropped (yet). But for his first season in English football you can't give him more then six out of ten.

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On 05/03/2016 at 11:50 PM, Henrique said:

Courtois is not a reliable GK. Even during last season he was making the same mistakes. Its no like he is under a bad form, its just the case this team is less solid in defense, so the opponents would create more chances. Courtois is the typical GK that can make one impossible save and minutes later concede an easy goal.

Every keeper relies on their defense to a point, even say Oliver Kahn was helpless at The Bridge that night in 2005 with his defence all over the shop.

Also Tibo is a reliable keeper, I can understand the argument for Cech to have been chosen but you don't achieve what he has at a young age if you're unreliable.

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On 05/03/2016 at 10:51 PM, Leif said:

Said it like 20 times that he should've been shipped off for £30m+ to any of the top clubs who would've paid that in a heartbeat for him so we could keep Cech 2-3 more seasons, buy a top player from Atletico then just scout up another goalie 'wunderkid' when Cech's done.

The board wanted a scouting mission to pay off so much they disregarded a legend who's the better player.

And if he got sold his thread would end up in a 300 page meltdown about how Jose is a short-sighted egotist, how the boards clueless and how the club will never gamble in youth amoung many other things every time he kept a clean sheet :lol:

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Shame that one blunder was is undoing. His save from Shaqiri should have been the moment talked about after the game

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I don't think his performance is much worse this season. The number of saves he makes per goal conceded is exactly the same as last year. http://www.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2014/2015/thibaut_courtois/165/126/1558/0/p|premier_league/2015/2016/thibaut_courtois/165/165/1558/0/p#saves_per_goal#total I would not consider him one of the players whose performance dropped significantly.

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12 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

Fact is we can have Begovic in front of goal instead, and I can almost guarantee that we will still not have a clean sheet

Maybe. Maybe not. If we are going to concede, then at least make the opposition work for the goal. But if we're just going to let in some really cheap goals, then we might as well not bothered playing a goalkeeper at all. Some of the goals that Courtois has let in of late have been really poor - slow to come out of his line, getting beaten at his near post, flapping at crosses (used to be his strength!).

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15 hours ago, Tomo said:

The fact he often plays well but still concedes says more about the defenders than it does about him.

From Miranda and Godin to Ivan and Cahill, I think anyone will be having kittens.

C'mon Tomo. Courtois wasn't exactly error-free either when he had Azpi-Terry-Cahill/Zouma-Ivanovic in front of him.

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49 minutes ago, Jason said:

C'mon Tomo. Courtois wasn't exactly error-free either when he had Azpi-Terry-Cahill/Zouma-Ivanovic in front of him either.

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

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2 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

Regards of our problems in midfield or further forward, the team will come under pressure at some stage in each game and when that happens, you would want everyone, including the goalkeeper, to be competent at the very least in dealing with the opposition's threat. Like I alluded to above, if we're going to start letting in some really cheap goals, then we might as well just the them walk the ball into the net.

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14 minutes ago, Jason said:

 the team will come under pressure at some stage in each game

You guys were talking about the defenders in front of Thibo. I think Godin and Miranda would also make more mistakes if they were playing behind our midfield or Atletico was playing like we do.

We are coming under pressure too frequently even against much weaker teams. Defensive mistakes become harder to avoid then. That's the first problem we should solve imo.

 

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16 minutes ago, 11Drogba said:

Our problem is midfield imo. We can't control the tempo of a game even against much weaker teams. This makes the job of our defenders and goalkeepers more difficult. When I look at better performing teams the main difference I notice is how their midfield takes control of the games. Once they lose that control their highly praised defenders also start making mistakes.

Our problem is not one department but the team on the whole ... In a team everyone has a role to play (individual or collective) and we arent doing a great job at it. There are mistake done at every juncture and for me Courtoius has been off the radar for long atleast this season. He needs to really up his game to be a top player. 

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1 hour ago, 11Drogba said:

You guys were talking about the defenders in front of Thibo. I think Godin and Miranda would also make more mistakes if they were playing behind our midfield or Atletico was playing like we do.

We are coming under pressure too frequently even against much weaker teams. Defensive mistakes become harder to avoid then. That's the first problem we should solve imo.

 

Coming under pressure is normal. If we're going to crack under it so easily every time and make stupid mistakes, then there's major issues. I expect some form of competency from those players, to at least do their jobs properly.

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It's just been one of those seasons - Willian hardly impressed in his first full season! Some players take longer than others, he's on a learning curve right now and this will see him sink or swim, personally I think he'll be ok and Begovic is a great replacement if not. 

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