Ramires

[GhanaBoy 104]

Gonalons and Moutinho would be better...

Rmpr do you know anything about Fernando reges ? and if so is he any good.

[Spike 12,049]

I don't really like Ramires being in the first team. Seems more like a utility player...

[remains of the day 564]

First off all, I do not think that anyone is challenging the fact that he is a good player to have in the squad. Actually I believe that we should keep him because he is valuable — and as I stated in my previous post which is on the previous page of this topic, he offers diversity in our options and allows us to make a turn-other.

Peace, I think we both seem to agree more than disagree especially around the importance of Ramires in this current Chelsea team. I agree that although he’s good to have in the squad, if not for the variety he brings in options then for his passion, hard work and commitment, but moving forward he probably would not be the first name on the team sheet (although I would argue that this would be dependent on the tactics of the next manager.)

Where you lost me however, is in your comment that “people who have criticized him in the last few pages don't argue over his spot in the squad, but his spot in the first team.” I find this highly questionable and just plain incorrect particularly since some folks on here have come forward and suggested that he doesn’t fit into the team and should be transfered. I also question overly critical comments like “he doesn’t get the basics right” or mis-directed statements like “ I don’t think he has what it takes to make the starting line-up of an elite team.” Elite teams don’t all play the same formation, employ the same tactics or have quality, world class players in every position so why wouldn't Ramires be able to make the starting XI of some top teams? Some line-ups will fit he's playing style and complement his strengths better than others.

I won’t argue that rami isn’t (at times) sloppy in possession (as many of the players in this team have been lately) however my issue with comments like “we are simply asking him to not fuck up with the basic — i.e. having a decent touch on the ball and a decent pass" is that they tend to grossly exaggerate his weaknesses and tend to paint him as this technically inept footballer who’s always the one consistently losing possession which isn’t the case. It also wholly ignores the fact that 1) Ramires’ dispossession rate isn’t that much higher than Mikel's 2) his pass success percentage is not so much further behind than that of Mata & Hazard’s (in fact I think on whoscored all three have around an 84 percent completion rate) and 3) he wins back possession more often than any other player in this team. Not bad for a player who you claim can’t even get the basics right…..

Though, for instance, when you have a car and want to go somewhere, it's better to have 2L of gasoline than nothing, right ? But it's even more better to have 5L than 2L — ain't it ? Know what I am sayin' ?

Perhaps, but then again one can argue that if there's something wrong with the car that causes it to burn more gas, then does it really make it a difference whether you have 2L or 5?

[Clevemayer 764]

I really liked Ramy I did but can you plz tell me if he is really an Brazilian? seriously why can't he stop the ball if he is?

shit display by him

[Mufassir08 2,400]

Gonalons and Moutinho would be better...

I like modric and capoue more so i want them

Or just get KDB and buy one DM

Tbh i am not in favour of playing KDB immediately in the pivot.I like him as a winger and cam as well so i would like him to play in these positions first and then make the transition to the pivot if it's neccessary.Although if we revert to a 4-3-3 formation(unlikely) then i would play KDB in midfield.

[Blue Armour 4,164]

Can understand SOME of the sentiments to remove him from the starting 11, but realistically who else do we have for the double pivot (I'm really starting to hate using those words again and again)....

Its either Lampard/Mikel which is too slow and rigid at times..or Oscar/Mikel or Luiz which may not work well, as Oscar may not be adept in the tactical sense.

The other option is Mikel/Luiz which I haven't seen in action enough for me to judge the combination.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I see everyone's basically forgotten how he was our best player against Arsenal a couple of games ago. He had a poor game, but that doesn't mean he's a poor player.

[DH1988 1,194]

Our best player against Arsenal? For 45 minutes yeah I'd agree with that, otherwise he was headless chicken, like Lamps was in the second 45 of that particular game.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I see everyone's basically forgotten how he was our best player against Arsenal a couple of games ago. He had a poor game, but that doesn't mean he's a poor player.

He was the best player.

Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's.

How do you reconcile those two things?

My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

He was the best player.

Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's.

How do you reconcile those two things?

My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

I think Ramires would be fantastic in a Mourinho sort of system. Counter-attack football with strong defence. This allows him to work aggressively defensively and affords him space to run in counter-attacks. Unfortunately for Ramires, we are not moving in that direction. He's a very good player on the right sort of team, I just don't see how he fits into a future Chelsea team.

[The Skipper 20,593]

He was the best player.

Our midfield was shit in the second-half and overrun by Arsenal's.

How do you reconcile those two things?

My belief is that he thrives in games where we're playing with our backs against the wall (Barcelona, Arsenal) and his fast breaks enable us to take advantage of broken transitions. But we can't win football like that consistently and nor should we aspire to.

We weren't playing with our backs against the wall in the first half where he was head and shoulders above everyone did we?

Second half performance wasn't completely down to our midfield being shit. It's the way we came out that set the tone for the rest of the game. I'm looking at the manager for the reason we performed badly in the second half. We dropped our intensity and allowed Arsenal to get back into the game.

Regardless, I think the stick he's been getting is unfair. He's a great asset to the side, and it's against the big teams, if we are set up properly and if he plays in his natural position, where he'll do the most damage.

Yes he had a poor game but my point is Ramires is still a valuable member of the first team. It's not his fault we sometimes don't have the right players in the pivot.

[The only place to be 11,313]

We weren't playing with our backs against the wall in the first half where he was head and shoulders above everyone did we?

Second half performance wasn't completely down to our midfield being shit. It's the way we came out that set the tone for the rest of the game. I'm looking at the manager for the reason we performed badly in the second half. We dropped our intensity and allowed Arsenal to get back into the game.

Regardless, I think the stick he's been getting is unfair. He's a great asset to the side, and it's against the big teams, if we are set up properly and if he plays in his natural position, where he'll do the most damage.

Yes he had a poor game but my point is Ramires is still a valuable member of the first team. It's not his fault we sometimes don't have the right players in the pivot.

And that's the exact point. It's not his fault - he just isn't the player we need in the first team going forward.

We need a holding midfielder and a playmaker in the double pivot - he isn't either. He also isn't a right-winger but that doesn't mean he can't play a role in the squad.

[The Mak 4,459]

I think Ramires would be fantastic in a Mourinho sort of system. Counter-attack football with strong defence. This allows him to work aggressively defensively and affords him space to run in counter-attacks. Unfortunately for Ramires, we are not moving in that direction. He's a very good player on the right sort of team, I just don't see how he fits into a future Chelsea team.

And that's the exact point. It's not his fault - he just isn't the player we need in the first team going forward.

We need a holding midfielder and a playmaker in the double pivot - he isn't either. He also isn't a right-winger but that doesn't mean he can't play a role in the squad.

This! My sentiments exactly.

I love Rami to bits, but he just doesn't fit the system. He's a box-to-box CM - not a winger, attacking-midfielder or defensive-midfielder. Putting him in any role other than his natural position just limits his abilities; It's like shackling him.

Sadly, if we are determined to continue with 4-2-3-1, then he needs to be sold and the money used for a quality DM/DLP. We're not doing anyone any favours by just keeping him, a player we paid £17m+ for, and shoehorning him into unnatural positions just because he's a 'midfielder'.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Couldn't agree more. In the old 4-3-3 we played under Mourinho, he'd have been a perfect fit as an alternative to any of Mikel/Makelele/Essien/Ballack in behind Lampard.

However in the current side he is a square peg for a round hole. A top player and a great guy, but just not the player we need in our squad any longer, sadly. Not unless we get a new manager with a new style.

[edetarod 2,155]

" Ramires arrives from nowhere..."

[robsblubot 3,217]

He's been very poor, especially his passing.

needs to improve otherwise he will lose his place to... no one! Thin squad indeed!

[The Skipper 20,593]

Ramires has been good the last few games, bar one very bad game against City. Like I said before, it really isn't his fault we don't have a natural deep lying playmaker in the squad and it really isn't his fault that he gets shunted out wide.

[themightyblue 443]

2 good games now. Not a peep from the doubters