ZAPHOD2319 1,615 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 57 minutes ago, Atomiswave said: I know the FA and PGMOl do not have a backbone or any integrity whatsoever, but how is our club allowing this to continue? We just keep on taking it. Expect us to get shafted for sure. Shambolic by the club imo. That might work to our advantage. AT gets really aggravated with players that whine throughout the game and Man Utd have the biggest whiner in the game with Bruno. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

King Kante 912 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, Atomiswave said: I know the FA and PGMOl do not have a backbone or any integrity whatsoever, but how is our club allowing this to continue? We just keep on taking it. Expect us to get shafted for sure. Shambolic by the club imo. I just want to know how we have had him 3 times in 13 games. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

Magic Lamps 10,146 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 11 minutes ago, King Kante said: I just want to know how we have had him 3 times in 13 games. It is odd. Given there are exactly 22 referees in the PL, having him 3 times or more in 13 games has a probability of less than 2% if we assumed random distribution. Apart from this the next two games will show if we really have improved compared to our start of the season esp the week where we lost to Shitty and Juventus Urin the first time. Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said: It is odd. Given there are exactly 22 referees in the PL, having him 3 times or more in 13 games has a probability of less than 2% if we assumed random distribution. Interesting. It's not random of course but I'd still be interested in seeing the arithmetic which underpins that probability calculation. Edited November 22, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie Link to post Share on other sites

Vesper 23,240 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, King Kante said: Wtf motherfucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited November 22, 2021 by Vesper 1 Link to post Share on other sites

Magic Lamps 10,146 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Interesting. It's not random of course but I'd still be interested in seeing the arithmetic which underpins that probability calculation. Well it is not arithmetic but still relatively basic high school math. I used binomial probability distribution but you can probably also use other distributions and configure them with the cited parameters to get the coefficients. But for discrete events and small numbers binomial works best. So for binomail distribution your proability to get AT as a ref - if it were random - would be 1/22. your number of trials is the 13 games and 3 is the number of hits. So if you insert these into the binomial distrubtion formula you will get the probability of getting AT in exactly 3 games (the probabiity for this single even would be about 1.7%) . I then also calculated it for all possible numbers greater than 3 bc we could have got it even worse in theory and added them up to get closer to 2% Edited November 22, 2021 by Magic Lamps Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said: Well it is not arithmetic but still relatively basic high school math. I used binomial probability distribution but you can probably also use other distributions and configure them with the cited parameters to get the coefficients. But for discrete events and small numbers binomial works best. So for binomail distribution your proability to get AT as a ref - if it were random - would be 1/22. your number of trials is the 13 games and 3 is the number of hits. So if you insert these into the binomial distrubtion formula you will get the probability of getting AT in exactly 3 games (the probabiity for this single even would be about 1.7%) . I then also calculated it for all possible numbers greater than 3 bc we could have got it even worse in theory and added them up to get closer to 2% Thanks. You've calculated the probability of three hits when the question you posed was three or more hits. This is why I was interested in the method used. P.S. It is probability theory until you put the numbers in. Then it's arithmetic. Edited November 22, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie Link to post Share on other sites

Magic Lamps 10,146 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Thanks. You've calculated the probability of three hits when the question you posed was three or more hits. This is why I was interested in the method used. P.S. It is probability theory until you put the numbers in. Then it's arithmetic. You are welcome That is quite an easy transition tho. To speed up the process, I used the cumulative distribution function to calculate the cumulative prob for 3 or more but decided to go over the normal prob. density function first for didactic reasons, then provide both results. Pls excuse the nitpick but the way I learned it is that arithmetic is the precurser of numbers theory and thus only covers the basic operators. factorial is not an operator within the field of arithmetic. It is not really relevant but strict rules is what math is about. Only did my BSc in maths but this much i remembered^^ Edited November 23, 2021 by Magic Lamps Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Magic Lamps said: You are welcome That is quite an easy transition tho. To speed up the process, I used the cumulative distribution function to calculate the cumulative prob for 3 or more but decided to go over the normal prob. density function first for didactic reasons, then provide both results. Pls excuse the nitpick but the way I learned it is that arithmetic is the precurser of numbers theory and thus only covers the basic operators. factorial is not an operator within the field of arithmetic. It is not really relevant but strict rules is what math is about. Only did my BSc in maths but this much i remembered^^ Thank you once again ML. My maths career ended at the A Level stage. (UK examination following two years of study typically sat by students aged eighteen. They are precursors, and in almost all cases prerequisite, to entering a three year degree course. Generally full time students study three A-Levels, although gifted pupils may take four. I took three. ) Beyond that it all starts with set theory, I have never delved into the philosophy of mathematics. To describe my take on the distinction between arithmetic and the other mathematical sciences I'd say that the understanding comes from individual sciences, but the application always dwindles to arithmetic. I don't rely on that however when I argue that factorials are only a shorthand for progressing multiplication. Indeed, given that the multiplication operator is implicit within the factorial function in the same way that the addition operator is implicit in multiplication operations, I'm not aware of any way to derive the value of n! without applying an arithmetical operator. I grant that this may be a case where I simply don't have a sufficient depth of understanding to realise that I'm wrong but I can't get on board with the notion that factorials lie somewhere outside arithmetic. When 1x2x3 is clearly arithmetic I would need quite some convincing that 3! isn't. Edited November 23, 2021 by OhForAGreavsie Link to post Share on other sites

NikkiCFC 6,469 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Feels like knockout phase game with away goal rule and they won first game 1:0 (and they did). If they score one we need to score 3 to take first place. Attack with everything we have, no calculations... Link to post Share on other sites

Laylabelle 8,520 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 23 hours ago, Pizy said: Juve we’re terrible leading up to our first meeting and we’re missing key players. Still raised their game and beat us. They’ve apparently been even worse lately and have an even bigger injury list. Let’s not have a repeat, eh? Last time was painful viewing.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites

ZAPHOD2319 1,615 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 22 minutes ago, Laylabelle said: Last time was painful viewing.. I was not right for a couple days after that match. It is amazing how much of a funk can happen over watching a match. Probably not healthy. Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said: I was not right for a couple days after that match. It is amazing how much of a funk can happen over watching a match. Probably not healthy. And you can't even explain it to non-football people. They just think you're a nut job. 2 Link to post Share on other sites

Vesper 23,240 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Roman Abramovich won't attend Chelsea vs Juventus despite making trip to London Roman Abramovich hasn't been to London for three years but despite visiting the English captain this week he will not attend Chelsea vs Juventus in the Champions League https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roman-abramovich-makes-first-trip-25519837 Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said: Feels like knockout phase game with away goal rule and they won first game 1:0 (and they did). If they score one we need to score 3 to take first place. Attack with everything we have, no calculations... Remember that the away goals rule has been scrapped. Away goals between two sides who finish level no longer makes a difference. Away goals in all group matches is on the tiebreak list but its down at number six behind, for example, overall goal difference in the group. Link to post Share on other sites

King Kante 912 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Remember that the away goals rule has been scrapped. Away goals between two sides who finish level no longer makes a difference. Away goals in all group matches is on the tiebreak list but its down at number six behind, for example, overall goal difference in the group. Yes, what people need to keep in mind is as follows; 1) H2H results. If we win by 2 goals we lead, if we win by 1 goal then it will go to point 2. Away goals no longer count at this point. 2) Goal difference. At the moment Juve are +2 on us. A one goal win means we're equal so if that happens we need to outscore them in our Zenit game vs. theirs against Malmo next week. 3) Goals scored 4) Away goals scored in all group matches 5) No. of wins 6) Disciplinary points. Essentially we need to win by two goals or more tonight and beat Zenit or otherwise we're finishing second barring a Juve feck up against Malmo. Edited November 23, 2021 by King Kante 1 Link to post Share on other sites

NikkiCFC 6,469 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Remember that the away goals rule has been scrapped. Away goals between two sides who finish level no longer makes a difference. Away goals in all group matches is on the tiebreak list but its down at number six behind, for example, overall goal difference in the group. 39 minutes ago, King Kante said: Essentially we need to win by two goals or more tonight and beat Zenit or otherwise we're finishing second barring a Juve feck up against Malmo. I know and this is why I said if we concede we need to score 3. Because we need to win by 2 and that's why 'feels like knockout game with away goal rule'. 2 Link to post Share on other sites

Pizy 15,518 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 CP10 up top, eh? Well, at least there’s lots of pace in the attack with he and CHO. Hopefully Ziyech seizes the opportunity and plays some of his signature cross field passes for those two to run onto. Link to post Share on other sites

OhForAGreavsie 5,103 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, King Kante said: Yes, what people need to keep in mind is as follows; 1) H2H results. If we win by 2 goals we lead, if we win by 1 goal then it will go to point 2. Away goals no longer count at this point. 2) Goal difference. At the moment Juve are +2 on us. A one goal win means we're equal so if that happens we need to outscore them in our Zenit game vs. theirs against Malmo next week. 3) Goals scored 4) Away goals scored in all group matches 5) No. of wins 6) Disciplinary points. Essentially we need to win by two goals or more tonight and beat Zenit or otherwise we're finishing second barring a Juve feck up against Malmo. For completeness the full list of tie-breakers is: - Article 17 Equality of points – group stage 17.01 If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied in the order given to determine their rankings: higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the teams in question; superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams in question; higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the teams in question; if, after having applied criteria a) to c), teams still have an equal ranking, criteria a) to c) are reapplied exclusively to the matches between the remaining teams to determine their final rankings. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria e) to k) apply in the order given to the two or more teams still equal; superior goal difference in all group matches; higher number of goals scored in all group matches; higher number of away goals scored in all group matches; higher number of wins in all group matches; higher number of away wins in all group matches; lower disciplinary points total based only on yellow and red cards received by players and team officials in all group matches (red card = 3 points, yellow card = 1 point, expulsion for two yellow cards in one match = 3 points); higher club coefficient (see Annex D). Link to post Share on other sites

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