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R16 - England v Germany


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This euros has probably reiterated once again what we knew before. there simply are not too many world class strikers around atm.

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Bring on Sancho, Foden, Grielish and Mount. Simple as.

group of death all going out in round of 16, wonderful.

This euros has probably reiterated once again what we knew before. there simply are not too many world class strikers around atm.

1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

This euros has probably reiterated once again what we knew before. there simply are not too many world class strikers around atm.

even Mbappe had a lot of bad spells (including when it really counted)

Lewa did score 3 in only 3 games, and against decent teams

and his supporting cast is just dire AF, horrific

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6 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Well no because you are presenting a statistical fallacy when you attempt to use a one game sample size to refute the 9 month sample size. Every dog can have his day. 

 

 

that's a fair point, but more about werner than Kai.

There are attackers who score most of their goals against weak opposition and then vanish when things get tough because they lack the repertoire to overcome difficulties.

Kai kept getting better and better as the opposition got stronger culminating in the most important goal there is. He has a lot of range and can play as a false 9 or just behind the striker without skipping a beat. Don't forget he's a young player in a new league.... I for one, am very excited to see what he will be able to do next. 

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3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Well no because you are presenting a statistical fallacy when you attempt to use a one game sample size to refute the 9 month sample size. Every dog can have his day. 

No, I'm not. Your point about us needing a ST is well mentioned by now. Am just saying it's convenient for you to say what you said to reemphasize it because it's ultimately two different teams, despite the same 3 players being in both teams and in the same system. One is at least a functional side, the other a broken side.

Also using the 9 months as sample size considering the first half of the season was a tactical mess under Lampard and all the nonsense then contributed to the various form, confidence level etc in the subsequent months.

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If we want to sign a (near) safe bet scorer the scouts should try to identify a Salah/Mane type which would serve better for the way we play.

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5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If we want to sign a (near) safe bet scorer the scouts should try to identify a Salah/Mane type which would serve better for the way we play.

Grealish?

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7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If we want to sign a (near) safe bet scorer the scouts should try to identify a Salah/Mane type which would serve better for the way we play.

Would say we already have a few players like them. Just need them to up the productivity...

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2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If we want to sign a (near) safe bet scorer the scouts should try to identify a Salah/Mane type which would serve better for the way we play.

the only other winger/Offensive midfielder not named messi who is this prolific is jadon sancho...maybe berardi. insignie or messi are still up there but they are old. It was not a good season for goalscoring wide players. most players in the race for the golden boot were mediocre centre forwards scoring around 20 goals in shit leagues.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/statistik/goldenerschuh

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4 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

the only other winger/Offensive midfielder not named messi who is this prolific is jadon sancho...maybe berardi. insignie or messi are still up there but they are old. It was not a good season for goalscoring wide players. most players in the race for the golden boot were mediocre centre forwards scoring around 20 goals in shit leagues.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/statistik/goldenerschuh

I forget Sancho

Berardi is overrated

Chiesa is better, but untouchable atm, Juve would never cough hin up unless it was near Sancho level cash

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1 hour ago, Jas said:

No, I'm not. Your point about us needing a ST is well mentioned by now. Am just saying it's convenient for you to say what you said to reemphasize it because it's ultimately two different teams, despite the same 3 players being in both teams and in the same system. One is at least a functional side, the other a broken side.

I'd agree with you if Germany being mismanaged actually affected Werner and Havertz performances. It didn't.  Their individual performances today were incredibly reflective on how they operate under Tuchel. Both played in their strongest positions and no surprise they were arguably the best performers for Germany. What they displayed tonight was reflective at club level which yet again leaves no optimism going into next season without a recognisable ST. 

1 hour ago, Jas said:

Also using the 9 months as sample size considering the first half of the season was a tactical mess under Lampard and all the nonsense then contributed to the various form, confidence level etc in the subsequent months.

You can continue to blame Lampard all you want and the tactical mess that came with him but our chance conversion has gone down since he's been sacked. 

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

that's a fair point, but more about werner than Kai.

There are attackers who score most of their goals against weak opposition and then vanish when things get tough because they lack the repertoire to overcome difficulties.

Kai kept getting better and better as the opposition got stronger culminating in the most important goal there is. He has a lot of range and can play as a false 9 or just behind the striker without skipping a beat. Don't forget he's a young player in a new league.... I for one, am very excited to see what he will be able to do next. 

I have no qualms with Kai nor Werner, just that our attack is blatantly missing something. 

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3 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

I'd agree with you if Germany being mismanaged actually affected Werner and Havertz performances. It didn't.  Their individual performances today were incredibly reflective on how they operate under Tuchel. Both played in their strongest positions and no surprise they were arguably the best performers for Germany. What they displayed tonight if reflective at club level which yet again leaves no optimism going into next season without a recognisable ST. 

Hasn't Germany been mismanaged under Low? Havertz, for example, has been poor at the Euros until today and he suddenly looked better with Werner upfront as opposed to with Muller and either one of the wingers in Sane and Gnabry (or both as was the case against Hungary).

Bu they are still only two players out of 11. What Tuchel does with the back 3 is different to what Low tried to do, despite it being the same system.

7 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

but our chance conversion has gone down since he's been sacked. 

But why should we assume that will continue to be the case? Yes, all those missed chances were frustrating but what's to say our current players won't get better at converting chances? We weren't exactly that low in the conversation rate before that. It's kinda funny that people can assume/believe/think teams/players will improve in other aspects but not this.

What if, for example, buying a ST doesn't help solve our conversion problem? What if he also gets caught up in this "curse" and we still don't score enough? Then what? We go out and buy another ST? We can't just expect one player to score the goals.

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1 minute ago, robsblubot said:

Jorginho winning CL and then Euros will likely be too much for some around here. 😁

Tbf its going to be interesting if Italy do end up making the final/winning it because Jorginho’s probably been one of the best CMs in the tournament 100%. Everyone was/has been talking about Locatelli, Verratti, Barella etc being Italy’s star men in MF when he’s been the one who’s played every game.

Italy-England will be interesting if it happens. Rice and Phillips are there for the taking with Italy’s options in the midfield I think and the way they go and get the ball back particularly. I mean I don’t think Rice is the  best at breaking the lines and that is ultimately what they need from him and Phillips to beat that press if they play those 2.

There will definitely be another game where a team will just let England have the ball and they have to try break them down with all their men behind the ball which doesn’t suit them. Likely be the next round v whoever the winner from Sweden/Ukraine is so we will see. If its Sweden for instance I can see Southgate looking at trying to stop the likes of Kuluseveski and Forsberg (although you’d hope not when you see the players they have) which if they do, all Sweden have to is just sit deeper and be hard to beat as they have done in their games without the ball, Rice and Phillips will be playing sideways and backwards a lot.

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2 hours ago, Jas said:

So, Italy v England in the final now? @NikkiCFC

Most likely. With Spain and Denmark being able to do something. 

But the way this tournament goes maybe Ukraine : Switzerland? 

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2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Most likely. With Spain and Denmark being able to do something. 

But the way this tournament goes maybe Ukraine : Switzerland? 

Italy v. England ? They clash in the semi don't they ?

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Does anyone remember if the Germans took the knee before the group stage matches in Germany?

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