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Posted (edited)

So frustrating, of course Arsenal do the double over us, fuck off ūüė°.¬†This loss is on Tuchel, he took a huge risk and it backfired unfortunately.

Edited by Johnnyeye
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Nope, it's all about the final this season. Yes missing Champions League isn't ideal but it's not the absolute catastrophe that it would be for teams like Liverpool because I think Roman will sti

I doubt United would even care to be honest (beat Liverpool). They got CL secured and they want players to be fresh for the EL final. If we had beaten Arsenal, not only West Ham are out of the ra

That was a horrid cross from CHO. Showing why he isn't playing. 

39 minutes ago, Johnnyeye said:

So frustrating, of course Arsenal do the double over us, fuck off ūüė°.¬†This loss is on Tuchel, he took a huge risk and it backfired unfortunately.

Kai fcuked it. He could even dribble the goalkeeper.
There is no way Arsenal could have returned.
But after their fluke goal our reaction was minimal if not non existent.
The way to break such defensive lines is -I 'm afraid- to pound them with crosses. I don't know of any other way even if it reminds of the old England team under Alf Ramsey.

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Tuchel was always going to play Jorginho. It wasnt a tactical change that cost us. Our finishing is dreadful. Hard to blame that on Tuchel either.

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One match I dislike losing and we lost that when we are having such a good run. Bad day in office, I hope we r now done with losing games for this season and lets achieve the impossible. 

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I know it seems impossible for us to win every game from the Arsenal game until the end of the season but I’d rather lose to Villa if that’s the case.

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Good to get such a rusty performance out of the way. I'm certain TT will have the team set up sharper for the next 4 games.

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Tuchel revealed on Chelsea TV that Kante was rested due to pain management because he has some achilles problem while Rudiger was rested because he was in the red zone.

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Didn¬īt understand the substitution of Gilmour. He was one of the better players in the first half. Would have rather taken off Jorginho, especially considering Saturday. That being said, I thought CHO was dreadful. He has been pretty frustrating this season. His stats are pretty good, but his overall performances are really shaky.¬†

Hopefully United does us a favour tonight for once...

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18 minutes ago, Beigl said:

Didn¬īt understand the substitution of Gilmour. He was one of the better players in the first half. Would have rather taken off Jorginho, especially considering Saturday.

Given Tuchel's pragmatism, he was always gonna keep the more experienced player on the field. 

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Posted (edited)

I doubt United would even care to be honest (beat Liverpool). They got CL secured and they want players to be fresh for the EL final.

If we had beaten Arsenal, not only West Ham are out of the race but if Liverpool drop any points tonight - top 4 would have been secured regardless of Leicester and Villa.

See how stupid it was for TT to not put our strongest possible XI?

If we did the job last night and Pool drop points, THEN we can rest players after the FA Cup final for the CL final.

Now we MUST play our strongest XI at all costs until the end of the season. Stupid.

Edited by Mana
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43 minutes ago, Mana said:

I doubt United would even care to be honest (beat Liverpool). They got CL secured and they want players to be fresh for the EL final.

If we had beaten Arsenal, not only West Ham are out of the race but if Liverpool drop any points tonight - top 4 would have been secured regardless of Leicester and Villa.

See how stupid it was for TT to not put our strongest possible XI?

If we did the job last night and Pool drop points, THEN we can rest players after the FA Cup final for the CL final.

Now we MUST play our strongest XI at all costs until the end of the season. Stupid.

It's Man United v Liverpool. It's Liverpool for them. Why would they not care? They would want to screw Liverpool's CL hopes.

Again, I don't get why are people complaining about the starting XI yesterday. Tuchel also made a lot of changes at the weekend but because we won, no one complained about it. Tuchel made a similar amount of changes yesterday and because we lost, people are suddenly complaining about it. Do people really think that yesterday's starting XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal OR at the very least, get a draw?

Tuchel already said Kante and Rudiger were rested due to pain management and being in the red zone respectively. Kepa, who didn't have much to do at all, played instead of Mendy in prep for the cup final while Werner was on the bench having started the last 5 games. So apart from those 4, yesterday's XI was pretty much our best XI. People keep complaining about the starting XI and yet, no one has bothered to ask why the players that started didn't bother to turn up and stake their claim for a starting spot in the finals.

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8 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

It seems that way.

Not one person will care if we win both the CL and FA cup, even if we were sitting 10th.

But two losses¬†(WBA & tonight)¬†when we are still pretty much¬†in control of our own destiny and everyone loses their mind and starts thinking the ‚Äúsafe¬†option‚ÄĚ of regularly finishing top 4¬†is better than winning a European cup by the looks of it.¬†

Top clubs celebrate trophy wins not finishing 4th place I thought? Obviously still think we will manage the top 4 but if we miss out and win the CL it makes no difference anyway.

As Jason said, we aren’t Arsenal. Being satisfied with 4th place is settling for a near nothing achievement now a days for a club like us. Go have a look at Arsenal over the years as an example of what making top 4 or top 6 finishes as a major achievement gets you. Or Tottenham. 

Personally, Id rather see us win the CL and FA cup than lose both and finish 4th because its a massive achievement to win any sort of major double, especially one including the CL. Plus these younger or newer players with a few trophy wins its just the beginning, the Havertz, James, Mounts, Chilwells, Gilmours, Pulisics, Werners etc if they get a taste for winning the big trophies, it only aids their development and pushes this group on even more. Everyone in the media always says Man United need to win a trophy under Ole but this group here need it. 100%. Thats why not winning the FA cup or Super Cup last season was huge. It was the same with City winning that FA Cup and then their first PL then Pellegrini came in and then Pep but they’ve never really stopped winning in the last 10 years. This group has been refreshed and need the taste for it.

I still refuse to believe we’ve sacked the season off for 2 cup finals or underestimated anyone.... That starting 11 was more than good enough to beat Arsenal and probably compete v most teams we play. He said he wasn’t happy and what not but that team was good enough to win and with the chances we had still should have won.

Why does the contract length matter? Or no CL for that matter if it comes to it? Look at what no CL did for Antonio Conte in his first season. We aren’t going to sack someone who got us from 8/9th to in the running for the top 4 as well as 2 cup finals. Not only that but showing obvious huge signs of improvement, who wants to be a title contender next season. Plus he has an option for an additional year on his deal. And there were rumours that the the club apparently want to discuss new terms with him prior to the Madrid second leg. So aye, one loss v Arsenal wont change that. 

With the exception of Mendy, Rudiger, Kante and Werner (also Christensen and Kovacic but they're injured), it was our best XI and the same XI that have started and won games before. So, the complaints about the starting XI are peculiar, especially when no one said anything about the changes Tuchel made after we won at City last Saturday. It's good enough, at the very least, to get a point against Arsenal. In the end, the defeat came down more to the application of the players. No one looked bothered at all, for one reason or another. The one thing I'll say though is that the players (and probably Tuchel as well) have put even more pressure on themselves to get things on Saturday (and they better fucking do).

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Jas said:

It's Man United v Liverpool. It's Liverpool for them. Why would they not care? They would want to screw Liverpool's CL hopes.

Only the fans care, not Ole and most of the players. This isn’t pre-2013. Ole’s eyes are on that EL trophy, not this game that is meaningless.

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Again, I don't get why are people complaining about the starting XI yesterday. Tuchel also made a lot of changes at the weekend but because we won, no one complained about it. Tuchel made a similar amount of changes yesterday and because we lost, people are suddenly complaining about it. Do people really think that yesterday's starting XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal OR at the very least, get a draw?

No one complained because it was City. We were expected to get beaten at the Etihad with or without our strongest XI.

Most of us did NOT expect us to lose to Arsenal.

The difference is, when you keep rotating the players would have to keep readjusting. And it’s not as if most of our players are class.  Jorginho, while I’m pissed off that he’s still here, it was instinct of him to pass it back to the goal then because of Mendy’s usual positioning. He probably forgot Kepa was in goal and he may be positioned elsewhere hence that calamity.

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Tuchel already said Kante and Rudiger were rested due to pain management and being in the red zone respectively. Kepa, who didn't have much to do at all, played instead of Mendy in prep for the cup final while Werner was on the bench having started the last 5 games. So apart from those 4, yesterday's XI was pretty much our best XI. People keep complaining about the starting XI and yet, no one has bothered to ask why the players that started didn't bother to turn up and stake their claim for a starting spot in the finals.

Kepa really should have played in the final to be honest. That’s his reward for getting us there. Werner should have played.

This Arsenal game should have been treated as a ‚ÄúPL‚ÄĚ final. If we get top 4 but lose the FA Cup, it‚Äôs not that bad. What‚Äôs BAD is getting the FA Cup at the expense of top 4 and no CL.

Edited by Mana
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21 minutes ago, Mana said:

Only the fans care, not Ole and most of the players. This isn’t pre-2013. Ole’s eyes are on that EL trophy, not this game that is meaningless.

It's their biggest rival for christ sake! United wouldn't want to be going into the final on the back of losses and for Solskjaer, he would also want to avoid questions about his future again by suddenly starting to lose games.

21 minutes ago, Mana said:

The difference is, when you keep rotating the players would have to keep readjusting. And it’s not as if most of our players are class.  Jorginho, while I’m pissed off that he’s still here, it was instinct of him to pass it back to the goal then because probably Mendy’s usual positioning. He probably forgot Kepa was in goal and he may be positioned elsewhere hence that calamity.

Tuchel has rotated in every game since he's been here and we have won a lot of them. So again, why the sudden complaints yesterday? Tuchel has played the same XI in consecutive games only once and it's near impossible to play the same XI in every game during this pandemic season.

You're really giving Jorginho an out there. We want to play out from the back and any keeper in this system would have made himself available for the pass the way Kepa did. Let's not also forget how hard Jorginho hit the pass backward considering how close he was to goal, which left Kepa no chance but to just quickly scramble back and try to prevent a comedy own goal.

Jorginho was at fault for the goal but on the bigger picture, if there was a change that screwed us up when it comes to passing out from the back, it's the inclusion of Zouma. Tuchel had no choice but to play him considering Christensen is injured and Rudiger is in the red zone but Zouma's passing ability is so bad. 

21 minutes ago, Mana said:

Kepa really should have played in the final to be honest. That’s his reward for getting us there. Werner should have played.

This Arsenal game should have been treated as a ‚ÄúPL‚ÄĚ final. If we get top 4 but lose the FA Cup, it‚Äôs not that bad. What‚Äôs BAD is getting the FA Cup at the expense of top 4.

If Werner had started and got injured, then what?

Yes, yesterday's stupid loss is an annoying setback but the Top 4 is still in our hands.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Jas said:

It's their biggest rival for christ sake! United wouldn't want to be going into the final on the back of losses and for Solskjaer, he would also want to avoid questions about his future again by suddenly starting to lose games.

Again you are thinking this is pre-2013. You are dreaming if you think United are going to throw everything at Liverpool to stop them getting CL (and even if United won, doesn't guarantee it)...when they have a bigger picture to look at. They will NOT want Bruno, Pogba and others injured or tired tonight. They got relegated Fulham and nothing to play for Wolves as their final two games to find their wins.

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Tuchel has rotated in every game since he's been here and we have won a lot of them. So again, why the sudden complaints yesterday? Tuchel has played the same XI in consecutive games only once and it's near impossible to play the same XI in every game during this pandemic season.

True but if there is one more PL game to take very seriously, it was yesterday. Now the end result? Must play your strongest XI until the CL final. West Ham and Liverpool will do whatever they can to win their final games because that's all they have.

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You're really giving Jorginho an out there. We want to play out from the back and any keeper in this system would have made himself available for the pass the way Kepa did. Let's not also forget how hard Jorginho hit the pass backward considering how close he was to goal, which left Kepa no chance but to just quickly scramble back and try to prevent a comedy own goal.

Jorginho was at fault for the goal but on the bigger picture, if there was a change that screwed us up when it comes to passing out from the back, it's the inclusion of Zouma. Tuchel probably had no choice but to play him considering Christensen is injured and Rudiger is in the red zone but Zouma's passing ability is so bad. 

I am not forgiving Jorginho, he's an experienced player he should know fecking better. He has gone through hundreds of games being under pressure and he is still making mistakes like this. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Kepa shouldn't be one of the top two to be sold this summer. Jorginho has earned the spot there.

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If Werner had started and got injured, then what?

Yes, yesterday's stupid loss is an annoying setback but the Top 4 is still in our hands.

...and we gone on to win yesterday? As I said I'd rather secure top 4 then winning the FA Cup.

Top 4 is still in our hands technically yes, but it requires us to WIN all the remaining games including Leicester.

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8 minutes ago, Mana said:

Again you are thinking this is pre-2013. You are dreaming if you think United are going to throw everything at Liverpool to stop them getting CL (and even if United won, doesn't guarantee it)...when they have a bigger picture to look at. They will NOT want Bruno, Pogba and others injured or tired tonight. They got relegated Fulham and nothing to play for Wolves as their final two games to find their wins.

If that's the case, then why did Solskjaer even bother to bring on Fernandes, Cavani and Rashford as subs the other day against Leicester?

United have no game this weekend, meaning they have a rare week off until their final two league games next midweek and if there's a time for them to rest players, it's against Fulham and Wolves, especially when the Europa League final is just 3 days after the final league game.

10 minutes ago, Mana said:

True but if there is one more PL game to take very seriously, it was yesterday. Now the end result? Must play your strongest XI until the CL final. West Ham and Liverpool will do whatever they can to win their final games because that's all they have.

Is that necessarily a bad thing? The injury risk aside, it's probably a good thing that we still have something to play for in the league just so the players will maintain that competitive and physical edge going into the Champions League final. I remember after we won the league in 2017, we just ghosted through the last game against Sunderland and then played like crap against Arsenal the following week in the FA Cup final.

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

...and we gone on to win yesterday?

And yesterday's XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal or get even a draw?

15 minutes ago, Mana said:

As I said I'd rather secure top 4 then winning the FA Cup.

It's ironic that you hate Arsenal but are speaking like an Arsenal fan there.

16 minutes ago, Mana said:

Top 4 is still in our hands technically yes, but it requires us to WIN all the remaining games including Leicester.

Is it bad that we have our fate in our own hands? 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Jas said:

If that's the case, then why did Solskjaer even bother to bring on Fernandes, Cavani and Rashford as subs the other day against Leicester?

Because 2nd place wasn't secured then, it was a small outside chance that we could have catched them and nicked it on the final day. Not anymore, it's impossible now for us or Leicester.

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United have no game this weekend, meaning they have a rare week off until their final two league games next midweek and if there's a time for them to rest players, it's against Fulham and Wolves, especially when the Europa League final is just 3 days after the final league game.

It really doesn't matter. There's no fans in the stadium to urge the team. Maybe it's expected for Bruno, Pogba and Rashford to make cameos or play 60 minutes, but they will not play the full 90. This game in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean everything to United. These players don't love United as much as Scholes, Neville etc. They got CL secured, they want to be fit and ready for EL final, they are going to take it easy.

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Is that necessarily a bad thing? The injury risk aside, it's probably a good thing that we still have something to play for in the league just so the players will maintain that competitive and physical edge going into the Champions League final. I remember after we won the league in 2017, we just ghosted through the last game against Sunderland and then played like crap against Arsenal the following week in the FA Cup final.

It's a bad thing because we are now approaching last chance saloon. Anymore dropped points, and if Pool and WH win all their games it's out of our hands. It's got to that point now.

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And yesterday's XI wasn't good enough to beat Arsenal or get even a draw?

Certainly good enough for a draw, a win not sure. And we shouldn't go in to a "PL" final with a squad just good enough for a point.

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It's ironic that you hate Arsenal but are speaking like an Arsenal fan there.

No, I'm speaking with logic here. The FA Cup gives us Europa League qualification, not CL qualification.

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Is it bad that we have our fate in our own hands? 

Again, like I said above. It's in our own hands, but one more slip - done.

Edited by Mana
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38 minutes ago, Mana said:

I am not forgiving Jorginho, he's an experienced player he should know fecking better. He has gone through hundreds of games being under pressure and he is still making mistakes like this. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Kepa shouldn't be one of the top two to be sold this summer. Jorginho has earned the spot there.

what the hell was Jorginho thinking, what a stupid brain fart.

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the next 2 games against Leicester will be massive, even more important now because we lost to Arsenal. It’s never easy being a Chelsea fan, fml

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