The Tuchel Thread

[Vesper 21,825]

pre vegan Tuchel

Edited February 15 by Vesper

[killer1257 3,217]

22 minutes ago, Vesper said:

pre vegan Tuchel

He is not a vegan. He is s vegetarian that tries to be a vegan, but he does not say no to bolognese. So not all the time a vegetarian. 

[Azul 1,539]

Amazing what this manager has done in such short time. Where are the Lampard-in merchants that called me a plastic fan for telling people that we desperately needed a new manager? Can't seem to find them on this forum nowadays lol.

[Vesper 21,825]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

He is not a vegan. He is s vegetarian that tries to be a vegan, but he does not say no to bolognese. So not all the time a vegetarian. 

I stand corrected, lol

[ZAPHOD2319 1,123]

1 hour ago, Azul said:

Amazing what this manager has done in such short time. Where are the Lampard-in merchants that called me a plastic fan for telling people that we desperately needed a new manager? Can't seem to find them on this forum nowadays lol.

They are all enjoying the winning you plastic fan...

[Azul 1,539]

35 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

They are all enjoying the winning you plastic fan...

To think some of them seriously would like to see Tuchel fail just to prove that they were right.... That's not a Chelsea fan but rather a consumer in my eyes

[NikkiCFC 5,758]

@Jason

I know you said you don't expect this formation to be our main formation for the future but I'm not sure about that. 

One of the reasons Tuchel was appointed are definitely Werner and Havartz. So he will try to get best of them. It looks like with Timo is already working. 

As you also said many times Werner is not a winger or number 9 either. And he would have to play that in 433 or 4231. 

So 3421 or 3412 is the way we will go I think. 

Respected journalists reported that we are after Haaland so probably the plan is Kai playing behind him and Werner.  Or Werner and Kai can both play behind striker. Even Germany is using this formation because for these players it is the best by far. 

 

 

 

[Jason 42,335]

25 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

@Jason

I know you said you don't expect this formation to be our main formation for the future but I'm not sure about that. 

One of the reasons Tuchel was appointed are definitely Werner and Havartz. So he will try to get best of them. It looks like with Timo is already working. 

As you also said many times Werner is not a winger or number 9 either. And he would have to play that in 433 or 4231. 

So 3421 or 3412 is the way we will go I think. 

Respected journalists reported that we are after Haaland so probably the plan is Kai playing behind him and Werner.  Or Werner and Kai can both play behind striker. Even Germany is using this formation because for these players it is the best by far. 

Given Tuchel's history of playing different formations, I don't think the current back 3 will be our main formation. In the long term, I suspect we'll alternate between both the back 3 and 4. He likes his teams to be able to play different systems. One of the reasons I think Tuchel has gone with a back 3 is because he hasn't had the time to properly work with the players on different systems - he's picked one and just focused on it - and he's just gone with the safest - if you like - system to help us achieve what we want to achieve this season. As we saw under Lampard, there are numerous problems with the back 4 because of players' defensive deficiencies - e.g. the midfield. The back 3 currently offers a bit more defensive protection. Heck, we have players who look better in a back 3 and players who look better in a back 4. Playing the back 3 also means we have one less space for the attacking players. So, we need to find a good balance here. And worth remembering that Tuchel did switch to a back 4 in the second half against Barnsley. 

I did say Werner is not a winger or a #9 but IIRC, I believe he's played in a back 4 before at Leipzig. When we do play a back 4, I'd trust Tuchel more than Lampard to find a role that suits Werner. As for Haaland, well, I'd not get my hopes up at all on us signing him when the likes of Man City are also interested in him. We will also likely have to sell players to generate funds to have a chance of getting Haaland. 

[NikkiCFC 5,758]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

Given Tuchel's history of playing different formations, I don't think the current back 3 will be our main formation. In the long term, I suspect we'll alternate between both the back 3 and 4. He likes his teams to be able to play different systems. One of the reasons I think Tuchel has gone with a back 3 is because he hasn't had the time to properly work with the players on different systems - he's picked one and just focused on it - and he's just gone with the safest - if you like - system to help us achieve what we want to achieve this season. As we saw under Lampard, there are numerous problems with the back 4 because of players' defensive deficiencies - e.g. the midfield. The back 3 currently offers a bit more defensive protection. Heck, we have players who look better in a back 3 and players who look better in a back 4. Playing the back 3 also means we have one less space for the attacking players. So, we need to find a good balance here. And worth remembering that Tuchel did switch to a back 4 in the second half against Barnsley. 

I did say Werner is not a winger or a #9 but IIRC, I believe he's played in a back 4 before at Leipzig. When we do play a back 4, I'd trust Tuchel more than Lampard to find a role that suits Werner. As for Haaland, well, I'd not get my hopes up at all on us signing him when the likes of Man City are also interested in him. We will also likely have to sell players to generate funds to have a chance of getting Haaland. 

But what is that role for Timo? 442?

Pep wanted to sign him so I'm curious what position he planned for him. Klopp as well. 

With Frank it was clear. He wanted Rice and that is it. But Tuchel doesn't. 

He already tried to sign Jorginho and Kante. Kova is playing very well. 

You may be right about safest option but if this is his ideal midfield what is stopping him from playing them in front of back 4 system? Let's say we get new top CB and new striker, do you think he will say: oh, now I can change system. 

We will most likely go for CB and striker. I don't see any new players that will make him change formation. 

He already said we will try to find a role for Chilwell. He played CHO and Pulisic as wing backs. As I said it suits most to German boys. So if it works well till the end of the season I can't see him changing it full time. Ofc sometimes we may change but this will be main I think. 

[Jason 42,335]

5 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

But what is that role for Timo? 442?

Pep wanted to sign him so I'm curious what position he planned for him. Klopp as well. 

4-4-2, as the second striker behind the #9. 

And since Klopp wanted him as well, I'd imagine him in the left side in a 4-3-3 is a possibility but obviously, more of an inside forward than a winger.

7 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

He already tried to sign Jorginho and Kante. Kova is playing very well. 

You may be right about safest option but if this is his ideal midfield what is stopping him from playing them in front of back 4 system? Let's say we get new top CB and new striker, do you think he will say: oh, now I can change system. 

We will most likely go for CB and striker. I don't see any new players that will make him change formation. 

He already said we will try to find a role for Chilwell. He played CHO and Pulisic as wing backs. As I said it suits most to German boys. So if it works well till the end of the season I can't see him changing it full time. Ofc sometimes we may change but this will be main I think. 

Let's not get carried away with the Jorginho-Kovacic midfield combo just yet. Yes, on the ball, they can be good but at the same time, we also know they are far from best defensively, especially Jorginho. In a back 4, they just have to do as much work defensively as they do offensively. In a back 3/5, there's perhaps a bit less to worry defensively because we will have at least 3 defenders behind them. Also, we have a lot of tough teams coming up - Atletico, Man United, Everton, Liverpool etc. Let's see how Tuchel's midfield setup will fare against those lot.

Tuchel tried to sign Kante at PSG but the ironic thing is, he's barely played him so far. So... 

At the moment, it's hard to tell what exactly Tuchel wants because he's come in right in the middle of the season and has to work with what he has for now. At the same time, it also feels like he's trying to keep everyone happy for now. So he may make his decision regarding the players with the board once he sees enough of them come May. 

He's also played CHO further forward recently at Sheffield United and I don't think Werner and Havertz require the back 3 specifically to operate. 

And here's a breakdown of the formations and the number of times he used them in league games at Dortmund and PSG:

Dortmund

4-2-3-1 = 24

4-1-4-1 = 15

3-4-3 = 13

4-3-3 = 6

3-1-4-2 = 5

PSG

4-3-3 = 26

4-4-2 = 14

4-2-2-2 = 10

4-2-3-1 = 8

3-5-2 = 7

[Atomiswave 5,532]

10 hours ago, Azul said:

To think some of them seriously would like to see Tuchel fail just to prove that they were right.... That's not a Chelsea fan but rather a consumer in my eyes

Trust me this place was a heaven compared to shedend forum on that front. Still many over there where you can easily sense they are still TT out, calling us boring and its like Sariiball etc and what have you. Dont even mention twatter.

[Vesper 21,825]

23 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Trust me this place was a heaven compared to shedend forum on that front. Still many over there where you can easily sense they are still TT out, calling us boring and its like Sariiball etc and what have you. Dont even mention twatter.

Fuck those plastic fucks. Cunts would rather lose Little England style than win with sophisticated Euro tactics.

I really like what I see of Tuchel so far. He is streets ahead of Lampard tactics-wise.

[Fernando 6,052]

Doing better then Lampard. 

Now we just need to wait in the summer if we start seeing Conte like attitude of bashing the club for transfer. Because that was his problem as well in the last 2 clubs. 

Which means that the 18 months is good, don't think he should be giving more time then that. 

[Jype 5,758]

2 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Now we just need to wait in the summer if we start seeing Conte like attitude of bashing the club for transfer. Because that was his problem as well in the last 2 clubs. 

Which means that the 18 months is good, don't think he should be giving more time then that. 

Would think they've already had some early discussions about summer 2021 transfers before Tuchel even signed on so don't think there will be problems that early. And playing Kepa last night was clearly done to get in Marina's good books because she's desperate for Kepa to be a success.

But yeah, the 18 month deal is still good either way. Getting top4 from difficult circumstances would certainly get him some good will with the board but continuing further than the initial 18 month deal will depend entirely on how he does next season. If he gets the team really challenging for the title next season (let alone winning something) he should definitely be allowed to continue. 

[Atomiswave 5,532]

48 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Fuck those plastic fucks. Cunts would rather lose Little England style than win with sophisticated Euro tactics.

I really like what I see of Tuchel so far. He is streets ahead of Lampard tactics-wise.

For sure Vesper, I find it baffling, they are essentially wishing Chels to fail, bloody pathetic. Yup even the first match vs Wolves I could see he is much better than FL, way obvious now after 6-7 games. I know people talk about managerial bounce etc but this is more than that. We have a structure and we die by that setup. Look how we play off the ball.

[Vesper 21,825]

19 minutes ago, Fernando said:

Doing better then Lampard. 

Now we just need to wait in the summer if we start seeing Conte like attitude of bashing the club for transfer. Because that was his problem as well in the last 2 clubs. 

Which means that the 18 months is good, don't think he should be giving more time then that. 

Well, he has only mentioned 3 names, and two (Alaba and Upamecano) are already off the board, leaving only the number one in-demand player on the planet (Håland). He can hardly go bonkers if we fail on Håland as we are going up against ALL (literally) the other top 12 teams for him.

Manchester City  
Real Madrid
Barcelona 
Paris Saint-Germain    
Bayern Munich  
Chelsea
Juventus
Manchester United
Liverpool   
AC Milan
Atlético Madrid  
Inter Milan 

 

and 5 much smaller teams who will still probably put a bid in (and fail spectacularly)

Tottenham Hotspur   
Borussia Dortmund   (almost no chance they can keep him, they are a selling club)
RB Leipzig    
SSC Napoli    
Arsenal (Banter FC, most delusional fanbase on the planet, with possible exception of Pool)

[Blues Forever 556]

8 minutes ago, Vesper said:

Well, he has only mentioned 3 names, and two (Alaba and Upamecano) are already off the board, leaving only the number one in-demand player on the planet (Håland). He can hardly go bonkers if we fail on Håland as we are going up against ALL (literally) the other top 12 teams for him.

Manchester City  
Real Madrid
Barcelona 
Paris Saint-Germain    
Bayern Munich  
Chelsea
Juventus
Manchester United
Liverpool   
AC Milan
Atlético Madrid  
Inter Milan 

 

and 5 much smaller teams who will still probably put a bid in (and fail spectacularly)

Tottenham Hotspur   
Borussia Dortmund   (almost no chance they can keep him, they are a selling club)
RB Leipzig    
SSC Napoli    
Arsenal (Banter FC, most delusional fanbase on the planet, with possible exception of Pool)

You can remove Inter, Leipzig, Spurs, Napoli, Milan, Arsenal, and Atletico from that list almost zero chance Haaland will go to those clubs.

Edited February 16 by Blues Forever

[Magic Lamps 9,351]

19 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

For sure Vesper, I find it baffling, they are essentially wishing Chels to fail, bloody pathetic. Yup even the first match vs Wolves I could see he is much better than FL, way obvious now after 6-7 games. I know people talk about managerial bounce etc but this is more than that. We have a structure and we die by that setup. Look how we play off the ball.

We should not get ahead of ourselves. What is refrehsing about Tuchel is that we appear to be in control of matches almost all the time, enjoy lotsof posession which in the end is good for all midfielders and attacking players, esp their confidence.

But the fixtures we had were piss-easy and i strongly doubt we would have got significantly fewer points under Lampard in these fixtures. So I concur with @killer1257 on staying a bit on the fence whether Tuchel is now the big deal.

We won 3 of Lampards 4 last games and in the win vs Luton he finally swichted to 4-4-2 and immediately looked more fluent. Sure the opposition was poor but it might very well have turned things around. The reasons for Lampard's sacking are just as much down to the board as to Lampard's tactical deficiences. There is a very real possiblity that indeed tuchel is streets ahead of Lampard technically but that does not guarantee success. Lampard was clearly not in his element training the squad as he is not a very vocal guy and did not really have assistants that were able to compensate for that. But I still believe in Lampards vision and the way he imagined the squad to become. All of Lampards signings were quality and fitted right in. I still think 4-3-3 with a structured hexagonal build up play formation, inverted wingers, a technical+physical anchor in midfield, 2 b2b midfielders and an allround striker is probably the best set up you can have in modern football.  Werner and Havertz do not really fit that system and it increasingly feels like they were dumped on him to no avail. Anyway, they badly let him down. Still, Lampard has an unerring eye for talent unlike many far superior coaches who win titles and leave the squad in shambles like Conte, Pep or   Mourinho. Lampard has left us in a great position squad-wise and I fear this being undone now he is gone. Lampard eventually realized how shit jorginho, kepa, alonso and christensen are. Tuchel playing those duds makes me immediately distrust him a bit. Time will tell if they will be his undoing or if he sees the light at some point.

In the end I really enjoy the recent results, esp as everyone around is is cr,umbling and I appreciate Tuchels open, outspoken manner. Most of all I enjoy not having to force myself to actively differentiate between my respect for the Lampard the man, my admiration fo rhim as a player and my opinion of him as a coach. For me FL remains our best ever player and one of the greatest midfielder to ever play. This memory remains untarnished.

[Tomo 20,221]

1 minute ago, Magic Lamps said:

We should not get ahead of ourselves. What is refrehsing about Tuchel is that we appear to be in control of matches almost all the time, enjoy lotsof posession which in the end is good for all midfielders and attacking players, esp their confidence.

But the fixtures we had were piss-easy and i strongly doubt we would have got significantly fewer points under Lampard in these fixtures. So I concur with @killer1257 on staying a bit on the fence whether Tuchel is now the big deal.

We won 3 of Lampards 4 last games and in the win vs Luton he finally swichted to 4-4-2 and immediately looked more fluent. Sure the opposition was poor but it might very well have turned things around. The reasons for Lampard's sacking are just as much down to the board as to Lampard's tactical deficiences. There is a very real possiblity that indeed tuchel is streets ahead of Lampard technically but that does not guarantee success. Lampard was clearly not in his element training the squad as he is not a very vocal guy and did not really have assistants that were able to compensate for that. But I still believe in Lampards vision and the way he imagined the squad to become. All of Lampards signings were quality and fitted right in. I still think 4-3-3 with a structured hexagonal build up play formation, inverted wingers, a technical+physical anchor in midfield, 2 b2b midfielders and an allround striker is probably the best set up you can have in modern football.  Werner and Havertz do not really fit that system and it increasingly feels like they were dumped on him to no avail. Anyway, they badly let him down. Still, Lampard has an unerring eye for talent unlike many far superior coaches who win titles and leave the squad in shambles like Conte, Pep or   Mourinho. Lampard has left us in a great position squad-wise and I fear this being undone now he is gone. Lampard eventually realized how shit jorginho, kepa, alonso and christensen are. Tuchel playing those duds makes me immediately distrust him a bit. Time will tell if they will be his undoing or if he sees the light at some point.

In the end I really enjoy the recent results, esp as everyone around is is cr,umbling and I appreciate Tuchels open, outspoken manner. Most of all I enjoy not having to force myself to actively differentiate between my respect for the Lampard the man, my admiration fo rhim as a player and my opinion of him as a coach. For me FL remains our best ever player and one of the greatest midfielder to ever play. This memory remains untarnished.

Apart from Luton we were barely managing the basics in Lampard's last two months. The idea we'd have had similar results had he stayed is wishful thinking at best. 

Furthermore, even if we somehow did, it would have likely been unsustainable papering over the cracks ala Arsenal's mini run in late December/January. While there's still room for improvement under Tuchel what we're seeing now is on another galaxy to the December/January garbage.  

[Vesper 21,825]

25 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

For sure Vesper, I find it baffling, they are essentially wishing Chels to fail, bloody pathetic. Yup even the first match vs Wolves I could see he is much better than FL, way obvious now after 6-7 games. I know people talk about managerial bounce etc but this is more than that. We have a structure and we die by that setup. Look how we play off the ball.

At the end of Laps, I saw zero clue how to sort the team.

The ONLY bad thing atm about his leaving is that we are not going to (apparently) for Rice, who I so so rate. He is a fucking beast, easily a top 6 to 8 DMF on the planet.

    
Joshua Kimmich    
Casemiro  
Rodri   
N'Golo Kanté   
Declan Rice
Fabinho
Sandro Tonali 
Eduardo Camavinga 
Denis Zakaria  
Ismaël Bennacer  
Tomas Soucek  
Boubacar Kamara
Bruno Guimarães
Thomas Partey  (too injury-prone)  
Rúben Neves
Manuel Locatelli  
Wilfred Ndidi  
Jorginho   
Marcelo Brozovic 
Weston McKennie    (more of CMF, but can play DMF)  
Aurélien Tchouaméni  
Boubakary Soumaré       
Kalvin Phillips   
Leander Dendoncker  
Florentino