closed Arsenal 3-1 Chelsea

[MoroccanBlue 5,197]

2 minutes ago, ZAPHOD2319 said:

These reporters need to ask Frank, what game plan were they trying to execute out there?

I couldn't see anything the players were doing that looked practiced?  

Simple.

Lampard - " The players are out there and they know what to do. They should be doing better from what's expected of them and we didn't see it". 

He bypasses his own failures by blaming the players. 

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

2 minutes ago, iceboy said:

Still fuming with the performance and attitude of this team. Horrific.

like against Everton, Wolves Etc... even the performance against westham was bad...

[DanP2311 65]

When players don’t have complementary roles and look out of sync, manager blame effort.  

[Jase 43,479]

13 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Tbf, throwing players under the bus isn't anything unique. Even Klopp did it after the Fulham game.

BUT,..the manager's standing in the team and the mental makeup of the squad will the affect the reaction. Klopp has a lot of clout within the team, and has churned out champions, so he will get more leeway. 

Also it depends on how often he pulls this card (of throwing the players under the bus). Perfectly fine for one-off games. But if the team enters a rut in form, and he uses this as his standard response, that's going to be trouble.

If the team strongly disagrees with Lampard's selections and tactics, it will eventually rub them the wrong way. Players that are frequently alienated could sow discontent.

To be honest, I prefer to see some kind of reaction from the manager, whether its directed at himself or the players, instead of someone being diplomatic like Arteta and letting one bad result lead to another. Just wouldn't want to see it after a long run of poor games (although with this result, we have officially entered into that kind of form).

It isn't anything unique and while I don't keep track of what Klopp says after Liverpool games, it's predictable by now that Lampard always blame the players after bad results. Players aren't always at fault for bad results, some times it's also down to the manager. Am sure half of the time at least, our bad results have been down to Lampard's selection, game management etc. You can only blame the players for so long before players start to ask questions. What also makes things worse right now is we aren't barely seeing anything different from Lampard. Not saying we should go back to the overzealous chopping and changing of last season but now, Lampard is just sticking with 4-3-3, putting square pegs in round hole and hope that it works when it hasn't for the last few games. Lampard has suddenly gone all stubborn like Conte and Sarri!

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

5 minutes ago, Vesper said:

 

Not the first time...

Remember 2020 cup final? 2017 cup final? When they played with mertesacker and everyone thought that chelsea will smash them...

We can't beat them when we are the favorites...

when chelsea are the underdogs (like in the last Europe League final), then we can win them.

[robsblubot 3,218]

Insipid performance made the game very very easy for arsenal.

big fan of Reece but what a fucking stupid penalty to give.

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

 

[Blue Armour 4,164]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

It isn't anything unique and while I don't keep track of what Klopp says after Liverpool games, it's predictable by now that Lampard always blame the players after bad results. Players aren't always at fault for bad results, some times it's also down to the manager. Am sure half of the time at least, our bad results have been down to Lampard's selection, game management etc. You can only blame the players for so long before players start to ask questions. What also makes things worse right now is we aren't barely seeing anything different from Lampard. Not saying we should go back to the overzealous chopping and changing of last season but now, Lampard is just sticking with 4-3-3, putting square pegs in round hole and hope that it works when it hasn't for the last few games. Lampard has suddenly gone all stubborn like Conte and Sarri!

Not sure if stubborn is the word I would choose, but I see your point, and its something I mentioned in the Giroud thread.

He becomes too comfortable with a tactic and beats it to death through overuse. 

In this match, I don't think it was as simple as formation change though.

The team was very poor with the press, and allowed Arsenal into our final third too many times within a short span of time in that first half.

In our best run of form this season, what was the most noteworthy aspect of our team? It was not really the 4-3-3, but more to do with the way our forwards and midfield did a coordinated press on the opposition. That's also the main reason why we shipped very few goals in that period.

That kind of intensity, which Lampard talked about, SHOULD come from the manager. You can blame 1 or 2 players for being guilty, but when the bulk of the team fails, he should be pushing them a lot harder.

Its happened many times, not just this season, under Lampard. This is one area, among others, that I would like to see more improvement (in terms of consistency)

[Blue Armour 4,164]

6 minutes ago, xPetrCechx said:

 

Unrelated, but I miss the times from seasons gone-by when he used to visit the dressing room whenever the team was on a bad run of results.

Used to really put a rocket up the team's arse. 

Recent Chelsea teams have been missing that bit of motivation or fear.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Blue Armour said:

Not sure if stubborn is the word I would choose, but I see your point, and its something I mentioned in the Giroud thread.

He becomes too comfortable with a tactic and beats it to death through overuse. 

In this match, I don't think it was as simple as formation change though.

The team was very poor with the press, and allowed Arsenal into our final third too many times within a short span of time in that first half.

In our best run of form this season, what was the most noteworthy aspect of our team? It was not really the 4-3-3, but more to do with the way our forwards and midfield did a coordinated press on the opposition. That's also the main reason why we shipped very few goals in that period.

Whatever it is, it's clear that some things within the 4-3-3 aren't working as well as before. Maybe the players' form just went, teams have sussed us out etc. So I don't know, maybe a change of formation? 

[Milan 17,835]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Whatever it is, it's clear that some things within the 4-3-3 aren't working as well as before. Maybe the players' form just went, teams have sussed us out etc. So I don't know, maybe a change of formation? 

So yet again we are the starting point - what does he want the team to play actually? 

[DANILA 290]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Whatever it is, it's clear that some things within the 4-3-3 aren't working as well as before. Maybe the players' form just went, teams have sussed us out etc. So I don't know, maybe a change of formation? 

I don't think it has ever worked, we just got lucky and also played some pretty poor teams. I was going on how all Lampard can do is cross the ball a while ago and everyone including yourself thought I was an idiot. I knew this implosion of the team would happen; you can't sustain a full season with your only attack being crosses. Lampard is way out of his depth and the players are now against him because this isn't what they signed up for. 

[cosmicway 1,252]

Old peoples home.

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

24 minutes ago, Jason said:

It isn't anything unique and while I don't keep track of what Klopp says after Liverpool games, it's predictable by now that Lampard always blame the players after bad results. Players aren't always at fault for bad results, some times it's also down to the manager. Am sure half of the time at least, our bad results have been down to Lampard's selection, game management etc. You can only blame the players for so long before players start to ask questions. What also makes things worse right now is we aren't barely seeing anything different from Lampard. Not saying we should go back to the overzealous chopping and changing of last season but now, Lampard is just sticking with 4-3-3, putting square pegs in round hole and hope that it works when it hasn't for the last few games. Lampard has suddenly gone all stubborn like Conte and Sarri!

To be honest - a manager holding up his hands and saying its all my fault is asking to be sacked and is rarer than hens teeth in the professional game. To his credit he blamed the performance on the players but said he takes the blame from the outside. People seem to be missing this as it doesnt fit their narrative.

You and I have watched Chelsea long enough to know that performance by the players this evening lacked intensity, speed, pressing -something that was never lacking with Lampard, Terry, Ballack etc as players.

The only thing I would criticize the manager now for is not making the players play with more animal cunning, guile and grit -we're probably the softest touch around at the moment,  but then again you cant fundamentally change a players character from nice guy Pulisic into a cheating Suarez Cavani type. On to the next game....

[Blue Armour 4,164]

6 minutes ago, Jason said:

Whatever it is, it's clear that some things within the 4-3-3 aren't working as well as before. Maybe the players' form just went, teams have sussed us out etc. So I don't know, maybe a change of formation? 

Not sure, but some things I would like to see:

Better press from our forwards and midfield. If some players are tired, drop them for others who can put in the effort.

CHO replacing Werner on the wing. Werner needs to be dropped period, and return as sub. Or, if he must start, start in a more central role (either in a 3-4-3 or ST role)

Short term turnaround could be achieved simply by having Ziyech return. His range of passing covers up for several deficiencies in Lampard's team.

 

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Fulham Broadway said:

To be honest - a manager holding up his hands and saying its all my fault is asking to be sacked and is rarer than hens teeth in the professional game. To his credit he blamed the performance on the players but said he takes the blame from the outside. People seem to be missing this as it doesnt fit their narrative.

Lampard said he takes the blame from the outside but that feels like a throwaway comment in the wider context of what he said. He still put all the blame on the players. What makes it even worse is that he does nothing different in the following games. 

[Fulham Broadway 16,392]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

Lampard said he takes the blame from the outside but that feels like a throwaway comment in the wider context of what he said. He still put all the blame on the players. What makes it even worse is that he does nothing different in the following games. 

He also gave the players a lot of credit, but you cant give them 100% credit if you lose 3-1 unless its exceptional

[Jase 43,479]

6 minutes ago, DANILA said:

I don't think it has ever worked, we just got lucky and also played some pretty poor teams. I was going on how all Lampard can do is cross the ball a while ago and everyone including yourself thought I was an idiot. I knew this implosion of the team would happen; you can't sustain a full season with your only attack being crosses. Lampard is way out of his depth and the players are now against him because this isn't what they signed up for. 

Firstly, I never thought of you as an idiot when you said what you said. I did make the same point earlier this year but poor opposition or not, we did play good football, beyond than just crosses, during our recent unbeaten run and mind you, some of the poor teams we beat then were the same ones we failed to beat last season. Maybe I allowed myself to get my hopes or expectations up from that run but it's clear as hell as now we are back to playing Big Sam football, back to making silly mistakes again whenever we play against a half decent side.