closed Wolves 2-1 Chelsea

[0007 511]

First of all, I have always said that his biggest test will be December and not the easier fixtures before that. I have been heavily critical of him before and never ever have I said that he changed my mind. We made a good run, I tried to be supportive but it was mostly games against bottom-half teams. We are yet to win a key match this season. Not only that, but we have regressed in terms of our performances against the better teams. This is not like the first months of last season when we were playing good and  couldn't finish games off.We are relying mostly on crosses and set pieces. He has been here for an year and a half and there is no progress. One defeat can be excused but two in a row with only Ziyech missing for the secons one is absolutely not. 

The biggest problem with Lampard is that he has never proved that he can do it.Hoping  that he is the next big thing is purely based on him being Lampard, one of our greats. City and Liverpool have hired proven winners and despite not getting it right at first, they gave them time because they actually has done something in the past.Ours is just wishful thinking.We injected 250m in that squad in the summer and backed a manager who has been here for more than an year. It's his job to incorporate the new signings and get the best out of them. So far he has not done this. 

[Muzchap 8,964]

Guys just stop.

Shit result. Focus on the next game.

I like @Hutcho and @Mana - there's no need for this bickering.

Agree to disagree. 

Yes a defeat hurts. We all handle it differently, some want to lash out, others want to look forward with optimism.

There's no right or wrong way - but we are supporters first. Let's not forget that eh... 👍👍👍

[Tomo 21,680]

6 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

Question though..

At the start of the season, gauging all the top teams, I would have hands down agreed with you even with our investment in the transfer window.

But with Liverpool and City the way they are, and Tottenham of all teams on top of the league, would you consider it acceptable not to at least challenge?

Even if we were to disregard comparisons to other teams, you only have to compare us to Chelsea of the previous season and see how different the points total is. You would expect us to be ahead and not below.

This team should be capable of a lot better., and that's why even after the past 2 shitty results, I'm not ruling us out entirely.

 

On a side note....fucking Klopp seems to have jinxed us with his comments about being the PL title favorites. I think he knew what he was doing and it might have swayed the mood in our camp. Till that point we were just happily taking it game by game.

The positive note is that I suspect we will remain within touching distance of at least one of Spurs or Liverpool even after midweek and next weekends fixtures.

A win for Spurs tomorrow might be problematic, however. All Jose needs is a win over the closest challenger to seal his title charge.

I think there is a couple of issues that goes against us and will/would have seen to a title challenge no matter who is incharge (unless this was a ridiculous season where 75 points would do it). I even said a few weeks back when things were looking rosy that a title would blindside me, I actually expected us to challenge under Conte (when 90% of this place thought we were finished as a top club after 15/16) but I just can't imagine it this time.

Firstly the lack of pre season and tight fixture list (allowing for next to no training time) suits settled squad's, which we are far from. That's why Liverpool and Spurs are front runners, there's been minimul change in both teams.

And secondly we have signed too many players, Wenger said once that any more than 3 (straight in the first team) is massively counter productive in the short term, we had the same issue in 03/04 and Spurs had troubles integrating the players they signed on the back of Bale's Real Madrid move.

I've said from day one this season that next year is the year where a sustained challenge is needed with no excuses afforded and I stand by that. Lampard has to show progression over the season to get the third season but the title is a season too soon in my opinion.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Again with the "two shitty performances" ignoring OTHER losses/performances we had this season. A better coach will do better.

Well you seem to be expecting us to win the league this season which I don't and have never thought was realistic expextion.

Also big difference to exceeding expectations over a long season compared to one FA Cup.

No one is blaming anything purely on havertz it was just an example as he was one of the players who was very poor today.

And you both seem to love AFTV and whoever Ty Is but makes sense given the nonsense you talk about.

But we'll see. You enjoy whining about lampard out and I'll support the team. He's never getting sacked this year. If we underperform in the eyes of roman he'll be gone end of the year as we all know. But who cares where we are now it's where we are compared to everyone else. 6 points from top is 6 points from top regardless of table position. Long way to go.

[Hutcho 8,443]

@Hutcho would a more experienced manager do better than Frank Lampard. Yes or no?

I don't think you can answer that question with a yes or no. Who is it?

Mourinho with this team would be better short term I think. Although we know that ends sour and it's not the football we are trying to play.

Pep, klopp etc would probably make us better again.

Other managers more experienced may be better short term but long term is unknown and that was what Chelsea were trying to do with the appointment. If we wanted a short term appointment we would have gone hiddink or whatever else but we are trying something else which I'm willing to give time and have been very happy with us this season up until the last 2 games when we have been poor.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Guys just stop.
Shit result. Focus on the next game.
I like [mention=5947]Hutcho[/mention] and [mention=10834]Mana[/mention] - there's no need for this bickering.
Agree to disagree. 
Yes a defeat hurts. We all handle it differently, some want to lash out, others want to look forward with optimism.
There's no right or wrong way - but we are supporters first. Let's not forget that eh... [emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

You're right mate

[Azul 1,615]

Mate read the words. WE DIDN'T PASS THE BALL SIDEWAYS ALL GAME as you argued. We tried exploiting the wings which was a good strategy.

We have giroud up front getting it wide is important and some of our biggest threat. When timo played we played more through the middle. But if you watched it we didn't just pass sideways as you claimed.

You're shouting for lampard out and saying I'm the one from AFTV. Yeah ok mate. Well you enjoy sitting there rooting for us to fail.

The proper fans will support the team and constructively talk about it rather than spout the same shit.

We did pass the ball sideways all game though. Give me one instance where we tried to create an opportunity through the middle?

Basically what you said is because Giroud is up front all we have to do is cross the ball neglecting his link up play which led France to the World Cup win? Unbelievable stuff.

We did pass the ball sideways whether you like it or not, look at the Chelsea highlights comment section. Even other fans are noticing it but here you are praising Frank for his management today. It shows that you're being deluded to be honest, and that's why I compared you to TY from Arsenal Fan TV. I haven't seen you criticise Frank at all, even though he has made so many mistakes as a manager for us. It shows favouritism towards him, remember that. You support the players as well as the manager so don't think it is impossible to criticise him.

Quick question, if there was a world class manager available, do you believe he would do a better job than Frank?

[Azul 1,615]

I don't think you can answer that question with a yes or no. Who is it?

Mourinho with this team would be better short term I think. Although we know that ends sour and it's not the football we are trying to play.

Pep, klopp etc would probably make us better again.

Other managers more experienced may be better short term but long term is unknown and that was what Chelsea were trying to do with the appointment. If we wanted a short term appointment we would have gone hiddink or whatever else but we are trying something else which I'm willing to give time and have been very happy with us this season up until the last 2 games when we have been poor.

Let's just say Nagelsmann or Pochettino.

[Hutcho 8,443]

We did pass the ball sideways all game though. Give me one instance where we tried to create an opportunity through the middle?

Basically what you said is because Giroud is up front all we have to do is cross the ball neglecting his link up play which led France to the World Cup win? Unbelievable stuff.

We did pass the ball sideways whether you like it or not, look at the Chelsea highlights comment section. Even other fans are noticing it but here you are praising Frank for his management today. It shows that you're being deluded to be honest, and that's why I compared you to TY from Arsenal Fan TV. I haven't seen you criticise Frank at all, even though he has made so many mistakes as a manager for us. It shows favouritism towards him, remember that. You support the players as well as the manager so don't think it is impossible to criticise him.

Quick question, if there was a world class manager available, do you believe he would do a better job than Frank?

Last thing and then I'm done with this because we are going round in circles.

You can check if you want.

But I'm probably one of the most supportive of all the players and have never thrown a player under the bus. I get behind all of them. I also never praised lampard for his management in todays game so not sure where you're getting that from. As I have already said I would have benched kai and made subs earlier.

Backing the players and backing the manager is favouritsm yes but surely that's the point and part of being a fan, same way we all backed most of the other managers when they were in tenure. People can criticise all they want and constructively is fine and often warranted. But the simple. "that's it he needs to go take" is all I'm disagreeing with

[Hutcho 8,443]

Let's just say Nagelsmann or Pochettino.

Poch would be a decent manager for us. But I don't believe any manager picks up this team and we are a completely different team. We are still a young inexperienced team (like the coach) and they need time to get used to each other and gel. When everyone's fully fit I think we play different personnel and play differently. I think he wanted to play puli Werner ziyech but couldn't because of injuries.

So would I sack Frank for poch. No is the short answer.

If Frank was sacked would poch be a good manager for us... Probably yes.

[Azul 1,615]

Last thing and then I'm done with this because we are going round in circles.

You can check if you want.

But I'm probably one of the most supportive of all the players and have never thrown a player under the bus. I get behind all of them. I also never praised lampard for his management in todays game so not sure where you're getting that from. As I have already said I would have benched kai and made subs earlier.

Backing the players and backing the manager is favouritsm yes but surely that's the point and part of being a fan, same way we all backed most of the other managers when they were in tenure. People can criticise all they want and constructively is fine and often warranted. But the simple. "that's it he needs to go take" is all I'm disagreeing with

You're not providing enough arguments for why he should stay, you're also making it seem like it's ridiculous and un-fanlike to have an opinion on whether he is a good enough manager for us. I support the club, I will never ever see someone as bigger than the club. If I see Lampard leading us nowhere then I'll obviously comment on it.

What I also said was that you've never criticised Lampard, when it's very normal to. Managers make mistakes and it's part of football. You criticising him doesn't mean that you're not a good fan but a realist.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Yeah I came to the conclusion that he's not going to get sacked this year myself. But does that mean I should forcefully back him? Nope. Lampard has to convince me and the fans why he is the man to take us forward. Not because he's "the club legend".

So you can't use the prior years achievements/performances to judge a manager/player/team but we can cherry pick games or whatever.

All I've seen is the hilarious gifs from when arsenal lose and they start raging. So no I don't know who they are by name. But it is a great watch (reccomend the gifs from the other day by the way with the bald white guy who looks like voldemort)

But yeah I'm gonna agree to disagree because otherwise we will be here all night.

[Azul 1,615]

Poch would be a decent manager for us. But I don't believe any manager picks up this team and we are a completely different team. We are still a young inexperienced team (like the coach) and they need time to get used to each other and gel. When everyone's fully fit I think we play different personnel and play differently. I think he wanted to play puli Werner ziyech but couldn't because of injuries.

So would I sack Frank for poch. No is the short answer.

If Frank was sacked would poch be a good manager for us... Probably yes.

I think people underrate the impact of a new manager. Look at what Conte did, he basically made a shit Chelsea team into champions. World Class managers that are much better than Frank would 100% transform this team.

This Chelsea team is miles ahead of Leipzig's first team. Imagine the things Nagelsmann would do? He'd make us into contenders for every trophy out there for sure. The impact he had on the Leipzig team in his first year was massive, and that's with a inferior team.

[Hutcho 8,443]

You're not providing enough arguments for why he should stay, you're also making it seem like it's ridiculous and un-fanlike to have an opinion on whether he is a good enough manager for us. I support the club, I will never ever see someone as bigger than the club. If I see Lampard leading us nowhere then I'll obviously comment on it.

What I also said was that you've never criticised Lampard, when it's very normal to. Managers make mistakes and it's part of football. You criticising him doesn't mean that you're not a good fan but a realist.

Managers do and lampard has made many as has all football managers.

With football fandom, I'm an optimist

But as I said to Mana I'm gonna agree to disagree and move on because life is too short.

Peace out.

[DanP2311 65]

6 hours ago, communicate said:

You don't want to involve Werner in the build up

This was prescient for an early match comment

[Strike 6,952]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

Putting crosses into the box is one thing - sides like Liverpool and Man City do that a lot - but what I don't get is why we kept putting high crosses into the box for the likes of Werner and Pulisic to win. If it's delivered for Giroud, fine, go high with the cross but otherwise, why the fuck were we putting high crosses in? Where were the low crosses or even the cutbacks!? And another frustrating thing was nobody was intelligent enough to stay deeper and pick up the second balls - there were a good number of them - but yet, everyone kept trying to go for the high crosses!

This. Even on the last cross by Chilwell where someone sweeping up the second ball would also prevent the counter that led to Neto scoring

[Johnnyeye 7,402]

typical, just fuck off

[Strike 6,952]

7 hours ago, DDA said:

"Not as bad as TC will make you believe" 

Oh please.

This was nothing short of a disgrace.

Frank is getting it massively wrong.

Have you ever seen such predictable football in your life? cross, cross, cross, pass back go the center backs..cross, cross, cross..Comon... we are playing like a team from the Championship. We have no midfield. They all goal hang with the forwards. Dreadful... just dreadful.

The performance was bad but before the last two games, there were signs of progress with the 4-3-3 and with the form of attackers, Kante, Reece that we had a settled XI.

Not like it was raining chances for Wolves or Everton but yes, the attack was horrific.  Going with Havertz and Giroud last night was the wrong call imo and teams have wisened up to play a low block, counter game against Chelsea and crowd the middle of the pitch.