Jump to content
Join Talk Chelsea and join in with the discussions! Click Here

29. Kai Havertz


Jas
 Share
Followers 7

Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, bigbluewillie said:


 

So let me get this right, you're saying that because Havertz hasn't hit the ground running, do what?

It might take a season for him to settle in, are you prepared to give him time? and I don't mean just til next week, it\s going to take time for the whole team to gel.

Then we should not be making him the focal point of our attack and changing the mid to a formation which clearly does not suit them. It's a recipe for disaster.

Also, it's not about hitting the ground. Werner has not done that too. But you can see his traits and why he will be a success. Kai can't do the basics right. That has got nothing to do with team gelling and time.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 628
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Who cares? He can make it iconic just like Zola 25 and Terry 26

I wait around all day incase we announce him and then as soon as I take an afternoon nap it happens and I miss it. 😆😆😆 LETS GOOOOO! I distinctly recall saying when we were first linked

https://theathletic.com/2044050/2020/09/05/havertz-transfer-mclachlan-marina-phone-call-lampard-real-madrid/ Some inside info from The Athletic on our pursuit-purchase of Havertz... - Club s

Posted Images

9 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Kai, Puli and Timo are all more inlcined to be finishers than creators. Only Ziyech is a true creater within our attackers. That is the problem. Given our cms create zilch we need a lot of creativity to come from the fullbacks which makes us so vulnerable. On the other hand if the fullbacks stay back we are toothless offensively. I really would prefer Kai to become a complete and pure no. 10 like Ronaldinho or Zidane. He surely has the tools. When he played for Bayer tho he was most prolific as a LW bc he would play off the ball more and pop up in dangerous positions. Chelsea fans have not really warmed to that idea either, he lacks a bit of zappiness to be a winger despite his pace. The thing I want from him frist and foremost is to bea bit more snappy, play with a bit more vigor. More aggressive on and off the ball. take more chances, try shooting more often. IIRC vs Sevilla and Utd he did not try a single shot on target apart from that one poor header. He is clinical usually as soon as he pulls the trigger but he needs to pull it way more often. I dont want him to become a player like Özil who have all the skill in the world but shit it away by trying to look to elegant and not putting up with the grit and vigor that makes you a great footballer.

I agree with this 100%. For what I've seen so far from the three is obviously a lack of chemistry for the young season but not enough effort to get others involved. Werner doesn't seem like he'll ever pass inside or close to the box unless he truly has to. I know we signed him to score goals but better hold up play is needed for the way our team is setup under Frank. The Prem isn't as forgiving on speedy strikers so he'll need to adjust and be more physical at times. Kai needs to make more of an effort to get into dangerous positions by making runs and stretching the field for others instead of just doing so when he thinks he has a scoring opportunity. Puli I think is trying to take that next step in his career and score more goals but he needs to kind of slow it down a bit and let the game come to him, I think he's trying too hard to make that leap into stardom. There's no reason why Puli and Werner shouldn't be destroying teams on the counter. You also mentioned Ziyech which I think makes a lot of sense, hopefully he can bring the attack together by being that playmaker.  I believe they'll figure it out but the faster these players are willing to make sacrifices and make the pass when necessary the better we'll be. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/10/2020 at 10:05 PM, Magic Lamps said:

Kai, Puli and Timo are all more inlcined to be finishers than creators. Only Ziyech is a true creater within our attackers. That is the problem. Given our cms create zilch we need a lot of creativity to come from the fullbacks which makes us so vulnerable. On the other hand if the fullbacks stay back we are toothless offensively. I really would prefer Kai to become a complete and pure no. 10 like Ronaldinho or Zidane. He surely has the tools. When he played for Bayer tho he was most prolific as a LW bc he would play off the ball more and pop up in dangerous positions. Chelsea fans have not really warmed to that idea either, he lacks a bit of zappiness to be a winger despite his pace. The thing I want from him frist and foremost is to bea bit more snappy, play with a bit more vigor. More aggressive on and off the ball. take more chances, try shooting more often. IIRC vs Sevilla and Utd he did not try a single shot on target apart from that one poor header. He is clinical usually as soon as he pulls the trigger but he needs to pull it way more often. I dont want him to become a player like Özil who have all the skill in the world but shit it away by trying to look to elegant and not putting up with the grit and vigor that makes you a great footballer.

Would like to see how well a Kante, Mount & Havertz midfield would operate. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Would like to see how well a Kante, Mount & Havertz midfield would operate. 

In this scenario would you envisage Kante as a pure holding midfielder with Mount and Havertz further forward (like a 4-3-3), or Mount alongside Kante, with Havertz in front of them (like a 4-2-3-1)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

In this scenario would you envisage Kante as a pure holding midfielder with Mount and Havertz further forward (like a 4-3-3), or Mount alongside Kante, with Havertz in front of them (like a 4-2-3-1)?

I'd like to see either scenario tbh and see what works. One of Mason's best attributes is quickly breaking the lines between midfield and attack with some quick passes into the feet of the attackers. We should be utilising this a lot more. I want Mason to be more like a Modric type player rather than whatever Frank is trying him as atm. 

Kanté in a 433 as the holding player - does he have the patience and discipline for this? For this reason maybe a 4231 might work better. Since his legs are going a bit, I'd like to see this 433 where we see him attack and defend horizontal spaces rather than the whole pitch/vertical spaces. Mount can lead the press from CM and join in on some attacks, but he'd have to be very disciplined. 

I'm surprised Frank hasn't tried it yet since he likes to play Mason in a lot of unorthodox positions. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

I'd like to see either scenario tbh and see what works. One of Mason's best attributes is quickly breaking the lines between midfield and attack with some quick passes into the feet of the attackers. We should be utilising this a lot more. I want Mason to be more like a Modric type player rather than whatever Frank is trying him as atm. 

Kanté in a 433 as the holding player - does he have the patience and discipline for this? For this reason maybe a 4231 might work better. Since his legs are going a bit, I'd like to see this 433 where we see him attack and defend horizontal spaces rather than the whole pitch/vertical spaces. Mount can lead the press from CM and join in on some attacks, but he'd have to be very disciplined. 

I'm surprised Frank hasn't tried it yet since he likes to play Mason in a lot of unorthodox positions. 

I would agree that is the position that I think would be best suited long term to Mount. He's still young and has plenty of time to develop but from what I've seen of his characteristics and qualities, he would be better suited to playing a little deeper than higher up the pitch. I agree with the assessment of Mount's passing and tempo in there probably working to our benefit. I think then on the flipside we have Kovacic who I guess is the alternative to Mount in such formations who also has the ability to break lines but by dribbling with the ball more than through passing so there are a couple of options then to suit the opposition.

I think for it to work however at its most effective, we need a natural holding midfielder in that position (whether it's a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1), of which Kante is not. If Silva is managed properly and doesn't show any deterioration as the season progresses, I actually think a holding midfielder is a bigger need than a centre back. Either way though, those two positions are what we have to get right over the next year. It is the only thing holding us back from having a well balanced squad capable of competing for the top trophies.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Superblue_1986 said:

I would agree that is the position that I think would be best suited long term to Mount. He's still young and has plenty of time to develop but from what I've seen of his characteristics and qualities, he would be better suited to playing a little deeper than higher up the pitch. I agree with the assessment of Mount's passing and tempo in there probably working to our benefit. I think then on the flipside we have Kovacic who I guess is the alternative to Mount in such formations who also has the ability to break lines but by dribbling with the ball more than through passing so there are a couple of options then to suit the opposition.

I think for it to work however at its most effective, we need a natural holding midfielder in that position (whether it's a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1), of which Kante is not. If Silva is managed properly and doesn't show any deterioration as the season progresses, I actually think a holding midfielder is a bigger need than a centre back. Either way though, those two positions are what we have to get right over the next year. It is the only thing holding us back from having a well balanced squad capable of competing for the top trophies.

Funnily enough, of course Kanté is still a huge member of the squad, but for the type of football we seem to be wanting to play, Kanté doesn't really make too much sense. The base seems to be a natural holding DM, a connector, and then a 10. Kanté doesn't really fit any of these. 

In hindsight we should've kept Ampadu, think he's the perfect profile for the type of player we need. Shame really. Also, should be interesting to see how Gilmour fits in.

Ideally, I'd love to have something like this as midfield options next season: 

Ampadu, Kanté, natural DM, Mount, Gilmour, Havertz. Maybe Rice or Camavinga (v. unlikely but Cech has links at Rennes) as the natural DM. This gives us options and all sorts of types of midfielders that would work with a lot of different types of game plans. Like you said, midfield balance will probably be the Achilles heel for us this season. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Apart from the interesting 10 minutes in the second half and losing 2 or 3 balls, he was really really good today. Getting better and better with every game and getting used to the English game,

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

He is so so underrated defensively...

Works harder than Ozil for sure. :lol: 

He just needs to stop losing possession stupidly in our own half...

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jason said:

Works harder than Ozil for sure. :lol: 

He just needs to stop losing possession stupidly in our own half...

Eh, I don't mind him trying risky things as long as we have cover behind him that can pick up when it doesn't come off. He will get smarter and better with it as he gains more experience in the league though. 

We haven't seen the best of him at all just yet. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, The Skipper said:

Eh, I don't mind him trying risky things as long as we have cover behind him that can pick up when it doesn't come off. He will get smarter and better with it as he gains more experience in the league though. 

It's fine in the offensive half (obviously) but not in the defensive half.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me or did he actually look better as a no. 8 than as a no.10 so far. When he dropsback and controls the tempo of the play he is just as comfortable on the ball as jorginho. I would still like him to shoot more often and go into the dribbling but i guess it will come.quiet but decent game from him

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

Is it just me or did he actually look better as a no. 8 than as a no.10 so far. When he dropsback and controls the tempo of the play he is just as comfortable on the ball as jorginho. I would still like him to shoot more often and go into the dribbling but i guess it will come.quiet but decent game from him

I think playing as an 8 should evolve his game much better. I don't want him to just be a final third player. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

Is it just me or did he actually look better as a no. 8 than as a no.10 so far. When he dropsback and controls the tempo of the play he is just as comfortable on the ball as jorginho. I would still like him to shoot more often and go into the dribbling but i guess it will come.quiet but decent game from him

The opinion of a Bayer Leverkusen fan from RedCafe

Quote

Yes. Already said it when the rumors to England began. Many people thought he was a classic 10 but his best performances for us - the ones that made him one of the greatest prospects in Europe - occurred when he was playing as an 8 in a 4-3-3 or a 8/10 hybrid alongside Brandt in a 3-6-1 with four two CDMs behind them. He's not a classic 10 or even a second striker. His great finishing and timing with runs into the box might have lead to this misconception but naturally, he's a CM. And not a box to box type like Lampard or Gerrard were but more like an Iniesta or David Silva type of player, position-wise.

That's not set in stone, obviously, since he's also shown great performances as a false 9 for example, has a very broad tool set and could grow into many different roles. But you can't really expect him to play a position he isn't used to and excel in it immediately.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/kai-havertz-chelsea-player.457299/page-15

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...