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Mikel John Obi


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According to reports that Galatasaray move is dead in the water. Oh well....just have to wait until Nat and Ruben come by in a couple of years and put him out to pasture. :ph34r:

That move was never ON. It was just a bunch of Nigerians trying to talk up Mikel.

and as far as Chelsea's performances with/without Mikel are concerned, here is what happened last year when Mikel started vs when he did not start

With Mikel starting

games: 32

won: 14

drawn: 7

lost: 11

goals scored: 54

goals conceded 49

Without Mikel in the starting XI

games: 37

won: 25

drawn: 7

lost: 5

goals scored: 93

goals conceded: 33

If there is such a drastic change in the team's performances/results by the exclusion of 1 player, No sane person can deny that a major reason for our good end of the season form was Mikel staying out of the team. Look at win %age, loss %age, goals scored per game, goals conceded per game. In every aspect we were much better off when Mikel was kept out of the starting XI.

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Who gave Mikel a 5 year deal and who dropped him?

Answer 1 Someone at the club .

Answer 2 our last manager .

Do you think Benitez dropped him because he is Nigerian? strange question .

No it was because he was rubbish .

Why do people try to blame everything they don't like on Emelano?
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That move was never ON. It was just a bunch of Nigerians trying to talk up Mikel.

and as far as Chelsea's performances with/without Mikel are concerned, here is what happened last year when Mikel started vs when he did not start

With Mikel starting

games: 32

won: 14

drawn: 7

lost: 11

goals scored: 54

goals conceded 49

Without Mikel in the starting XI

games: 37

won: 25

drawn: 7

lost: 5

goals scored: 93

goals conceded: 33

If there is such a drastic change in the team's performances/results by the exclusion of 1 player, No sane person can deny that a major reason for our good end of the season form was Mikel staying out of the team. Look at win %age, loss %age, goals scored per game, goals conceded per game. In every aspect we were much better off when Mikel was kept out of the starting XI.

I know many here don't rate Mikel at all but to use misleading stats like that is just nonsensical. It's just so convenient for people to pick up stats like that to highlight the supposed rubbishness of player and at the same time, dismiss other factors that led to that stats. I'm pretty sure the low win percentage etc with Mikel comes during the mid season when we have our annual winter slump with the entire team just played like rubbish from November till about February. But of course, nobody is gonna look into these factors. And to say Mikel not playing contributes to our good end of season form is just plain nonsense for this reason posted below.

Are you implying that we went on the great winning towards the end of last season, securing 3rd and winning the Europa League all because Mikel didn't play?! if you are, then that is just simply a load of nonsense. We achieved what we did last season because of other factors. Has nothing to do whatsoever with Mikel not playing. The players simply roll up their sleeves and got together to achieve what we need to then. We also relied on some luck, moment of individual brilliance and some heroic defending to get us through.

To almost blame everything that is wrong on Mikel is just pathetic. As if everything we failed to do right in a game is his fault.

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I know many here don't rate Mikel at all but to use misleading stats like that is just nonsensical. It's just so convenient for people to pick up stats like that to highlight the supposed rubbishness of player and at the same time, dismiss other factors that led to that stats. I'm pretty sure the low win percentage etc with Mikel comes during the mid season when we have our annual winter slump with the entire team just played like rubbish from November till about February. But of course, nobody is gonna look into these factors. And to say Mikel not playing contributes to our good end of season form is just plain nonsense for this reason posted above.

To almost blame everything that is wrong on Mikel is just pathetic. As if everything we failed to do right in a game is his fault.

I agree with BlueMaster, using this type of stats to bring down MIkel is nonsense. He may have his defects but not every thing wrong with the team is the fault of only one player.

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7 seasons is enough. Better players have been given less of a chance here. I think he's a decent player, but not good enough for us. Our midfield got exposed too often against better teams this season. If not Mikel, who's responsibility do you think that is ? Don't give me Nigeria statistics please. The standard of African football isn't exactly that high right now.

Even if we sign Cavani and still keep Mikel around, we will suffer. I honestly hope we bring in a great central midfielder. That is perhaps the glaring weakness in the team right now after the striker position. I thank Mikel for his service all these years. But hopefully both he and the club can now move on to other things.

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That's not true. Mourinho will get swathes of information on the current squad. He will also receive insider's info from the staff , which includes a lot more data/stats than what we have access to (for example fitness levels).

It is likely Mikel will get a chance, esp if we don't sign a new holding mid, but I'd not believe for a second that Mikel's performance last season won't be taken into account by the new management.

BTW, that's assuming Essien does not regain some form.

Again, I can't see the connection. We are under new management. Mikel, as you said, will get a chance, and if he proves himself in training and on the pitch, he will get a starting place. I'm sorry, but I still can't understand how a few performances from last season come into the equation.

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Even if you raise fair points otherwise (that I don't agree with), that one is ridiculous... I mean there's competent staff who monitored the team and if someone plays so much games, it's either that his presence is justified or if the players down them in the pecking order aren't trusted yet (the Chalobahs, RLC etc)

That's a great point, managers used to ask to Mikel to play the Mikel role every week, without variation ; especially Ancelotti. That was one of the key of the instant success in 09/10 but in some way, it paused Mikel's own evolution.

Villas Boas brang new ideas about that interchanging triangle midfield with more fluidity, players holding others role depending of the situation etc... but overally that wasn't functional because the team wasn't on the same wavelength, the pressing and the ball retention weren't efficient enough to allow freedom.

Mourinho knew what he wanted from Mikel because he had an overral view of his team, a clear idea of how he wanted his team to play on medium term

Scolari did put Mikel in front of the back four after Essien's injury, as it was a working formula, that was kept by him or Hiddink.

Ancelotti used players as tools to play his system, it worked but players really were to the service of the team.

Villas Boas wanted to do the same, but it didn't work.

Di Matteo and Benitez did chose the same approach which was the rigid application of basic principles, the two lines of four, proper way to get the ball out from the back using triangles on the channels... so the system over individuals

(as highlighted by the instructions given to Hazard, Mata defensively... whereas a manager with more room tactically would find a formula to pack the midfield in order to release his attackers from the tasks to defend)

I think those managers were led by two different kinds of dynamics (mainly): the one based on the application of a given gameplan (Ancelotti, AVB, Scolari) with different levels of success ; the one based on short term, so a basic but efficient gameplan with either the same XI or a mathematical turnover (Benitez, Hiddink, Robbie)

Mourinho was the only one who considered his squad as his working material to improve, he had a clear view of what he wanted and expected from each and every player and not just for the next game, month etc... ; he wasn't driven by any kind of urgency nor "restraint" to use a squad he didn't put together, no filing

I think it had an influence on Mikel's developpement. If you look at Lampard, Terry, Deco, Ballack, A.Cole... none of them did improve one of the facets of their game ; they did find a context, gameplan etc... to express themselves more or less. Because they were 26, 27, 28 years old at the peak of their career (athletically, in terms of experience, tactically, establishement/reputation...)

Mikel had or didn't had the right context to perform but wasn't taken into consideration as a player with room for improvement: back from September 2008 he was taken into the virtually insane dynamic of games, pressure of immediate result which several managers were under. He was the player allowing balance in a key area of the pitch, so there was no reason to change his role, especially because that would mean a dip in results (attacking, defensively...)

Since 2008 he has been considered as a key player, an experienced one... Impressive when we look at how many 21 years old midfielders were regular starters in such an exposed zone of the pitch like him.

So much things happened since Mourinho left, though I can't help to think that was just kind of an interlude... sometimes it feels like it was yesterday and things really went fast.

It seems that time fled for Mikel as well but there wasn't any godfather anymore to monitor his developpement ; actually he suffered from having been made of a starter at 21 because the managers in charge did consider him as an already established player and they didn't have either room, envy or time to think about his case.

That's an observation, I would say I'm not concerned by Mikel's case as long as what matters is Chelsea FC and managers were right to play a working system rather than challenge what was obviously working (Mikel restricted in a precise role)

The last one who wanted to change things regarding Mikel has been Villas Boas who lost his job, also because his management of the Mikel case fucked up even more things that were already not well managed elsewhere on the pitch/at the club.

:clap:

Brilliant analysis mate about our managers. Too bad very few people will actually attempt to read that because it's truly a top post. Thanks for that.

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I don't see the brilliance of the post.

Too vague and basicly Mourinho is the best, all the other coachs suck more or less.

He can have good analysis but on player analysis, I'm not sure I'd trust Seb.

For example his first post on Loïc Remy one or two years ago, there are many things that were wrong and was overselling him badly. Loïc Remy technical ability are average at best and is mostly a counter-attack forward that needs lots of space.

I don't know but for me with his opinion on Mikel, Moses, Remy, it's like he sees football only one way and forgets some subtleties of the game.

And to compare Di Matteo, Benitez and Hiddink because of some basic stuff but forgetting all the differences, It's despicable.

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:clap:

Brilliant analysis mate about our managers. Too bad very few people will actually attempt to read that because it's truly a top post. Thanks for that.

What a fucking load of patronising wank.

And trippingstep is pretty much spot on. It's essentially the equivalent of a middle-management memo where trendy tossers try and cram as many buzzwords into a sentence as possible. There's a decent point about the turmoil at this club leading to problems with Mikel knowing his role.....but I don't see too many other players affected by that. It's just people once again making excuses for him because they think they have to baby him. He's a grown-ass man...He's 26 FFS....cut the reins, get him off the teet and start judging him as if he's a professional footballer who is paid a good wage to play football.

Next season he has to step up and give consistent performances. That's what most of us judge players on. We don't go by what they might have been or what they once were.

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What a fucking load of patronising wank.

And trippingstep is pretty much spot on. It's essentially the equivalent of a middle-management memo where trendy tossers try and cram as many buzzwords into a sentence as possible. There's a decent point about the turmoil at this club leading to problems with Mikel knowing his role.....but I don't see too many other players affected by that. It's just people once again making excuses for him because they think they have to baby him. He's a grown-ass man...He's 26 FFS....cut the reins, get him off the teet and start judging him as if he's a professional footballer who is paid a good wage to play football.

Next season he has to step up and give consistent performances. That's what most of us judge players on. We don't go by what they might have been or what they once were.

Very few people will read that because it is more than 5 lines. I know from experience that people around here very rarely read long posts. Sorry to disappoint you, but I was praising the analysis of the managers approaches not the part about Mikel. The brilliance about it is that I've never read anyone make a similar analysis about the styles. he offered a completely different view point and backed it with his logic. You don't have to agree with it, but at least he did something other than repeating the same things that everyone else says. Few people do that.

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...because he was the only damn player having been made of a regular starter at 21 since 2008 ? That's all I want to say

The Terrys, Lampards, Ballacks, Bellettis, Carvalhos, Drogbas... were all at the peak of their career, between 26 and 32. We don't speak about improvement anymore, that's about finding the right context to express themselves

Fair enough. That point has validity. But most of that post is complete bollocks and I'm sorry to say that because I don't tend to criticise posts that people have put time and effort into.

The fact that you've got Choulo trying his best to crawl up your arse doesn't help.

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Very few people will read that because it is more than 5 lines.

Give it a fucking rest you tiresome old bore. I'm fed up with the narrative that you constantly try and paint of Mikel, as if he's some type of delicacy that only football connoisseurs can properly assess and enjoy. It really is nothing more than patronising old shit and is insulting to the vast majority of Chelsea supporters both on this board and in real life who know how to evaluate footballers.

Mikel is a divisive player not because people aren't capable of understanding what his job is in the team (we loved Maka) but because he's inconsistent and there is the weird cabal of sycophants who defend him in such absurd fashion that it actually makes people dislike him more than he warrants. This whole thread is ridiculous and I'm as guilty of that as the next person but for fucks sake give it a rest.

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Mikel benefited from what the three first managers (More Scolari and Ancelotti, actually) instructed him.

And two of them (AVB and Scolari) were failures.

I understand what you're saying but I simply think Mikel hasn't shown enough, especially in terms of heart and character and until he does that on a consistent basis then the vast majority of Chelsea fans will have question marks over him. Everyone seems to think he needs replacing bar a few fans of his and most would've loved to have been shot of him.

Personally I'm going to limit my discussions about Mikel in future to the West London area because there's far less bullshit involved.

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Remy's prime issues are mental, he struggles because he's bad advised etc...

I won't ever say Mikel, Moses are world class. I just cannot understand the why they're bashed, individually and worse: being scapegoated for collective issues.

So for you that's not possible to compare three managers who did basically the same things at Chelsea? Tactically, to rotate the squad etc... given the (similar) conditions they got the job etc ?

For Remy I'm not sure it's just mental problems. I have this opinion since he played at Nice. He has very good qualities like his pace and heading but has also big weaknesses, bad technic when running with the ball that leads to not release the ball on obvious passing lanes.

I don't know, but comparing the three just because of basic things like quick proper release from the back (ok at Lille with Garcia it never happened lol never mind), it's a bit too much.

Between Di Matteo and Benitez, for me there was a big change. Ok it was not perfect but there was an idea on how to attack, some patterns during the matches with some adjustements to the opponent defense.

And I admit I'm a little biased by the fact that I follow Hazard to see how things evolve and I was glad that he had at least a proper coach as I feel his previous coach skipped too many basics things and was not working on some of his flaws.

I agree that too many coaches can mess the players but it's just that I don't really like the comparison between the coaches.

For me if Mikel didn't feature that much with Benitez, it's because he was not capable of doing a Ramires (btw i agree with you on one player and it's him) job by helping the fullback and winger, on the left there was often a problem there, even with the fact the winger was coming deeper with Benitez due to the fact the defensive midfielder didn't do the job asked in this system. Helping in possession of the ball and pressing, trapping with the full back, winger on top channeling the opponent to the trapzone ready to counter attack when the ball was won.

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Give it a fucking rest you tiresome old bore. I'm fed up with the narrative that you constantly try and paint of Mikel, as if he's some type of delicacy that only football connoisseurs can properly assess and enjoy. It really is nothing more than patronising old shit and is insulting to the vast majority of Chelsea supporters both on this board and in real life who know how to evaluate footballers.

Mikel is a divisive player not because people aren't capable of understanding what his job is in the team (we loved Maka) but because he's inconsistent and there is the weird cabal of sycophants who defend him in such absurd fashion that it actually makes people dislike him more than he warrants. This whole thread is ridiculous and I'm as guilty of that as the next person but for fucks sake give it a rest.

Except absolutely nothing in my post has anything to do with Mikel, you idiot. :lol2:

I'm sorry you have to attack my posts in order to feel secure about your opinion and I'm sorry that you have to try to take my opinion out of context and make it seem something it is not in order for you to attack it, but I won't be posting about Mikel before the new season because I see no point in doing so. So you'll have to find someone else to attack whenever he posts something to help your pathetic ego. :wave:

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I know many here don't rate Mikel at all but to use misleading stats like that is just nonsensical. It's just so convenient for people to pick up stats like that to highlight the supposed rubbishness of player and at the same time, dismiss other factors that led to that stats. I'm pretty sure the low win percentage etc with Mikel comes during the mid season when we have our annual winter slump with the entire team just played like rubbish from November till about February. But of course, nobody is gonna look into these factors. And to say Mikel not playing contributes to our good end of season form is just plain nonsense for this reason posted below.

To almost blame everything that is wrong on Mikel is just pathetic. As if everything we failed to do right in a game is his fault.

The so-called annual winter slump

We played 32 games between november to February.

Mikel played in just 11 of these. So your theory falls flat on its face.

And how are those stats misleading.

Football games are won by performances of your 11 players on the field. I am not saying that Mikel is the only thing wrong with our team but he is one major problem.

If the win ration increases from 43% to 67% when Mikel does not play

If the loss ration falls from 34% to 13% when Mikel does not play

If the goals scored per game increase from 1.6 to 2.5 when Mikel does not play

If the goals conceded pre game drop from 1.53 to 0.89 when Mikel does not play

I am not sure how shameless a person has to be to argue for Mikel's effectiveness.

Honestly, the people who have liked your post should tell you how wrong you are. Choulo and Amels

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The so-called annual winter slump

We played 32 games between november to February.

Mikel played in just 11 of these. So your theory falls flat on its face.

And how are those stats misleading.

Football games are won by performances of your 11 players on the field. I am not saying that Mikel is the only thing wrong with our team but he is one major problem.

If the win ration increases from 43% to 67% when Mikel does not play

If the loss ration falls from 34% to 13% when Mikel does not play

If the goals scored per game increase from 1.6 to 2.5 when Mikel does not play

If the goals conceded pre game drop from 1.53 to 0.89 when Mikel does not play

You just don't get it, do you? At least when others voice their views on why they rate or don't rate Mikel, they look into factors. They analyze his performances, character, style of play, team play, strengths, weaknesses and all that. But here, you are being incredibly myopic in your view on Mikel that you are just comparing our winning percentages with and without Mikel. You are being selective by just choosing and looking at stats on its surface to pass a definite judgment on a play without even bother exploring further into those why stats are like that.

The numbers will tell us we have lost more games this past season with Mikel starting compared to when he isn't. However, look at some of those losses we suffered when he played:

vs Man City (in Community Shield) - Leading 1-0 at HT but Ivanovic got sent off and we just got pummelled in the 2nd half.

vs Atletico Madrid - Abysmal performance all around. No spark in attack and absolutely atrocious defensively

vs Man United (in PL at SB) - Conceded 2 goals that got nothing to do with Mikel. Fought back to make it 2-2 but then lost the game because of 2 RCs & to an offside goal

vs West Ham (A) - Completely bossed the first half but only led 1-0 at HT when it should have been more. Whole team just switched in the 2nd half and no one, NO ONE stood up to Diame who just ran the game

vs Southampton(A) - Lost the game because we didn't play well at all AND Benitez fielded a 2nd string side

vs Man City (in FA Cup) - Whole team played like rubbish before deciding to turn up only when we are 2-0 down

Are any of those defeats Mikel's fault? No. Those losses there came as a result because the team just didn't turn up or decided to capitulate for whatever reason. Has nothing to do whatsoever with Mikel playing or not.

And then, when you look at the stats that said we won more and lost fewer games without Mikel, you didn't even bother consider the fact that he missed out about 20 of those 37 games due to his involvement in the AFCON and his hip injury at the end of last season. You just conveniently decide to use it as it is to suit your agenda. Moreover, a fair bit of those wins without Mikel came in last 10 games or so when a major factor of it happened because the players pulled together and was focussed on achieving our target then and also because Benitez's rant after the Boro game eventually led to less negative chants/pressure from the fans, thus allowing the players to express themselves and supporting them.

I am not sure how shameless a person has to be to argue for Mikel's effectiveness.

Honestly, the people who have liked your post should tell you how wrong you are. Choulo and Amels

I am not sure how pathetic can a person be to use such poor reasons like this to argue the ineffectiveness of Mikel.

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Are any of those defeats Mikel's fault? No. Those losses there came as a result because the team just didn't turn up or decided to capitulate for whatever reason. Has nothing to do whatsoever with Mikel playing or not.

Southampton away and West Ham away were utterly atrocious performances by Mikel. Diame dominated him in at Upton Park and Lambert had him in his pocket at St Marys.

I agree that bleeds blue was a little unfair in using those stats, but if you're going to just re-write history then you're not much better.

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