Mikel John Obi

[xPetrCechx 13,546]

LOSES TOO MANY BALLS.

[The Skipper 20,593]

I've tried to stay out of this debate today, but Mikel's biggest asset has always been his consistency in passing. His ability to make 50+ passes in every match at a 85+% accuracy is why he's good.

Fixed for you. I'm in the pro-Mikel camp but Mikel's overall performances aren't that consistent IMO - regardless, I still think he's a key player in our squad. If he's surrounded by the right players Mikel is excellent. If not then he struggles.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Fixed for you. I'm in the pro-Mikel camp but Mikel's overall performances aren't consistent that IMO - regardless, I still think he's a key player in our squad. If he's surrounded by the right players Mikel is excellent. If not then he struggles.

Completely agree with everything in there, just saying that he's consistent at what he does best which is rare among players. And tbf, every single one of players (bar Azpi maybe) has been inconsistent.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I've tried to stay out of this debate today, but Mikel's biggest asset has always been his consistency. His ability to make 50+ passes in every match at a 85+% accuracy is why he's good.

He made 84% of his passes against Southampton yet had a terrible game. This over-reliance on an empty statistic to support the notion he's a great player shows a complete lack of understanding of the game of football.

Not all passes are equal.

Fixed for you. I'm in the pro-Mikel camp but Mikel's overall performances aren't that consistent IMO - regardless, I still think he's a key player in our squad. If he's surrounded by the right players Mikel is excellent. If not then he struggles.

I've made that same point. He looks good if he's surrounded by good players but he doesn't elevate the performances of players around him.

The reason I like Chalobah so much is because he's the complete opposite. He's a leader. He makes the player next to him better.

But I understand people think he isn't ready for the first-team. They can't type exactly why he isn't ready, he just isn't.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

At Chelsea Mikel has different role then Vidal at juve, Toure at City or Xabi at Real. They are center of their game, everything goes through them. That is why they have more ball, more space and more open play. Mikel is very restricted here. Its Mata who is leader of our team, not Mikel. For nigeria, he has role of leader in midfield and he is BRILLIANT there. He put better performances than Yaya in Afcon tbh.

But here, he is restricted to defensive duties. Tackling and intercepting vise he is on par with Yaya or De Rossi. He isnt doing fancy tricks and people think he is boring and isnt playing well. But truth is Vidal is world class at Juve that has complete team now. Back when he was at Bayer he was inconsistent too.

What Mikel needs is 10 players he plays with week in week out for few months. Then his consistency will improve. He is 25 years old for DM reltively young.

The main problem with Mikel is his restricted game and some motivation. Give him freedom and he will be effective in attack and defence.

[Peace. 4,352]

Finally, a good intelligent argument!

First of, I was not criticizing you for bringing up Kalou, just saying that I can't go into detail in the debate so we don't go off topic.

About the first part, although Brown and O'Shea were hardly 'starters' for utd, especially in their latter years, but I can't really argue (intelligently) against some of the other points you made. I'll concede that you proved that Mikel could have been average or below and he would still have been a starter and that we could still have won everything we did. Fair enough, but the key word there is "could". I think you'll agree that your post did not by any means prove that he was average.

I admit I go over board defending Mikel because almost everyone goes over board bashing him, but I honestly don't think it's fair to call Mikel average. I'll be the first to admit that he lacks a bit of mobility and his reaction to the game is always a bit slow. But having said that, Mikel, on the other hand, is the best passer in the league for the past 4-5 seasons. No midfielder has played more passes than him or had a higher accuracy (Scholes beat him in a couple of seasons but he's semi-retired now). He also has one of the best ball retention skills in the league; he can keep the ball under immense pressure. He is also excellent at closing passing angles and forcing opponents to play the difficult ball. This may not be glamorous, but I think it helps the team immensely.

I know it's not saying much because of the lack of quality in this position atm, but I think it is fair to say the Mikel is in the top 3 DMs in the league.

As for him "helping the big boys", that's unfair as well. Mikel was a key player in both of our 09-10 and 11-12 seasons. We could not have won those trophies without him. Go back to Carlo's first season and watch especially the matches against the "big four" when we won all 6 games scoring 13 and only conceding once. Mikel was immense in all of them. He was also our best man in Munich last season.

Mikel is not a world beater, I never claimed otherwise, but he's a good player, currently one of our better ones. We have much more pressing issues in our squad. The bashing he constantly gets by some is ridiculous, imo. That's why I go over the top defending him.

Regarding Brown and O'Shea, to be perfectly honest, I do not remember enough to know whether they were starters week in week out. That's sure they were not playing the first role, though. Actually, I was going by the number of games that they played in. John Obi Mikel, in his last six years at the club, has played respectively : 42 ; 39 ; 49 ; 35 ; 37 ; 37 games (he is currenlty at something about 33), which does approximately 40 games per season. In ten seasons at Manchester United, O'Shea has played approximately 39 games per season (and that's with two seasons at 13 and 18 games). As for Brown, during the period of six years where he played the most, he averagely had 36 games per season. I compared them because they had more or less the same amount of games...

Of course that my comment doesn't prove that Mikel is average ! I even said, in the post that I made not so long before the one you quoted, that I thought he was a good player !

And of course, he has his share of abilities ! As you said, he has a good passing game, especially with his accuracy. Even though he has the ability, he doesn't try enough to make sharp/long passes. And that's a shame, really. Though I believe that the manager should insist more on this part of his game... He should smack him in the head and tell him to do that more often.

Yep, he has also a very good retention skill when a player try to get the ball from him. On the other hand, when the opposition's midfield put pressure, he has the tendency to be sloppy, mistake-prone.

And finally, he has also a good positional awareness, and he knows how to close down spaces. Though, he also has a lack of mobility and hunger, and sometimes he has the tendency to stand still.

So all in all, he has his qualities and his flaws, just as each and every players ; it seems that we both share the same view on this matter !

On the "helping the big boys" matter, I think that you have misunderstood me — or that I have misspoken myself. I am not saying this in a pejorative way. I am not saying that all he did was to bring water when Lampard and cie were thirsty. I meant that in the follwong sense : when you have great-Lampard on the left, great-Ballack on the left and great-pairing-Terry-Carvalho in the back, it's easier to do your things in peace. In other words, he didn't have pressure on his shoulders - it was players around him. Don't get me wrong ! That doesn't change the fact that he was important.

And now, as I've already said, things have changed and, considering the situation, it's now up to him to take the midfield wheel. And if he was shaky under Villas-Boas, and inconsistent this year, that's because he is not the kind of player who's a leader, not the kind of player to perform under the spot ligths. He is litterally a squad player (not in the pejorative sense huh... Don't know if you see what I mean) !

Finally, I deeply believe that — considering the state of our midfield (and squad, in general) — we should aspire to someone else as our starting player at his position. On the other hand, just as you, I don't think that this is our most pressing issue. We won't be doomed if we don't buy Busquets ! Therefore, in my mind, it's the perfect situation to keep him around while blooding slowly a player of the like of Nathaniel Chalobah in the starting team !

[Peace. 4,352]

Nobody here hates him. It's a ridiculously stupid thing to say because Chelsea supporters don't hate their players.

Unfortunately, that something too "mainstream" on this forum, at times. Whenever you are saying that this or that player is not that good, people jump at you and label you as a hater. During the first month that I was on this forum, I had been labeled as a "hater" (me and some other people), because I dared to say that Kalou was not good enough, or something along the lines. To be honest with you, I was left stunned by this... I really did wonder what was going on, since it was a mere observation from me — an observation naked of all hatred. And that was nearly three years ago, now.

Too many times, when you criticize a player for X or Y reason, someone pop at you and tell you "you are a hater", "ffs support our players and get behid the team !", "that's a knee-jerk reaction", "only after one bad game ", "how dare you criticize this legend", or just make fun of you, and I could go on.

Yes, from time to time, someone really criticize a player because he doesn't like him very much, or because he is hot blooded after a defeat. That's a fact and that's normal — that's just human nature. I am pretty sure I have already did this once, just as everybody here ! But this kind of excuse (to defend players) has become way too much used... It has become to be thrown around so lightly. I find it kinda disrespectful and it leads the debate to a dead-end.

I am not saying this to single out X or Y. No. I am only saying this, because into my eyes that has gone to far. This really piss me off when I read such things.

I felt it had to be said...

[Guest FullEnglishBreakfast]

Being called a 'hater' is possibly the most stupid of all insults.

[Heisenberg 1,824]

Unfortunately, that something too "mainstream" on this forum, at times. Whenever you are saying that this or that player is not that good, people jump at you and label you as a hater. During the first month that I was on this forum, I had been labeled as a "hater" (me and some other people), because I dared to say that Kalou was not good enough, or something along the lines. To be honest with you, I was left stunned by this... I really did wonder what was going on, since it was a mere observation from me — an observation naked of all hatred. And that was nearly three years ago, now.

Too many times, when you criticize a player for X or Y reason, someone pop at you and tell you "you are a hater", "ffs support our players and get behid the team !", "that's a knee-jerk reaction", "only after one bad game ", "how dare you criticize this legend", or just make fun of you, and I could go on.

Yes, someone really criticize a player because he doesn't like him very much, or because he is hot blooded after a defeat. That's a fact and that's normal — that's just human nature. I am pretty sure I have already did this once, just as everybody here ! But this kind of excuse (to defend players) has become way too much used... It has become to be thrown around so lightly. I find it kinda disrespectful and it leads the debate to a dead-end.

I am not saying this to single out X or Y. No. I am only saying this, because into my eyes that has gone to far. This really piss me off when I read such things.

I felt it had to be said...

100 % right.

Not only in this forum.

[JDY 1,290]

Sometimes when you have a different opinion people have to label you a 'hater' because they've convinced themselves that that is the only possible explanation.

[robdog 2,084]

I don't mind being labeled as a hata. I am one & proud of it. In fact I have a PHD in Dominology. It's 15 when I slap a bone on the table

[Blue Gino 377]

At Chelsea Mikel has different role then Vidal at juve, Toure at City or Xabi at Real. They are center of their game, everything goes through them. That is why they have more ball, more space and more open play. Mikel is very restricted here. Its Mata who is leader of our team, not Mikel. For nigeria, he has role of leader in midfield and he is BRILLIANT there. He put better performances than Yaya in Afcon tbh.

But here, he is restricted to defensive duties. Tackling and intercepting vise he is on par with Yaya or De Rossi. He isnt doing fancy tricks and people think he is boring and isnt playing well. But truth is Vidal is world class at Juve that has complete team now. Back when he was at Bayer he was inconsistent too.

What Mikel needs is 10 players he plays with week in week out for few months. Then his consistency will improve. He is 25 years old for DM reltively young.

The main problem with Mikel is his restricted game and some motivation. Give him freedom and he will be effective in attack and defence.

First you say we the Mikel bashers who piss and moan about him will come to regret it but all I see is how Chelsea needs to accomodate him with tweaks in formations and surrounding him with certain players. Excuses excuses. You say Mikel is RESTRICTED but in a prior post you say he's a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER who's job is not to do fancy tricks and shit just do the basics, now you say give him freedom to attack. WTF?

[Blue Gino 377]

I have yet to see Mikel on any critics' top ten list for defensive midfielders in the EPL let alone the world and all he's asked to do is the same dirty job that Makelele did with little fanfare in that position and I can only assume Roman doesn't put a lot of value in that position. AVB did and he sought out Romeu. That's a young player whom if he gets over his injury can make that position his and his alone. He can start attacks, get involved and score a goal. Reads it well too. Not take casual strolls or make a dumb fart brained pass to the opposition. Rafa saw that potential, christ I can't believe I'm agreeing with him, but had it not been for the injury Mikel would still be on that bench. Has anyone else notice a club try to offer a deal for Mikel? Says a lot to me.

[Kojo 4,676]

Yes this thread has been lacking a lot of intelligence in the past dozen pages, including posts defending Mikel by myself because the discussion had turned into a cat fight.

And we're back to the lack of intelligence....but thank you for taking a couple of sentences in my post completely out of context

Hahaha i love your little plan b move you made there, after Peace pretty much just torched your whole arguement you're now agreeing with him and saying that i only did that because they did this?

Bull shit, you think because Mikel passes the ball backwards he's one of the best passers in the world, any stats what come your way you will use them as your only arguement, however when he makes mistakes it's pinpointed on someone or even something else.

Oh and just for the record, I've been waiting on an intelligent arguement on why Mikel is so good, because all i see is the same old bull shit on that Mikel has a 90 percent pass completion.

[Kojo 4,676]

Fixed for you. I'm in the pro-Mikel camp but Mikel's overall performances aren't that consistent IMO - regardless, I still think he's a key player in our squad. If he's surrounded by the right players Mikel is excellent. If not then he struggles.

If Mikel is a key player, then god fucking help us, we may aswell kiss every future potential trophy good bye.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

First you say we the Mikel bashers who piss and moan about him will come to regret it but all I see is how Chelsea needs to accomodate him with tweaks in formations and surrounding him with certain players. Excuses excuses. You say Mikel is RESTRICTED but in a prior post you say he's a DEFENSIVE MIDFIELDER who's job is not to do fancy tricks and shit just do the basics, now you say give him freedom to attack. WTF?

He has restricted role, not his skills. Given him some freedom will make him better player.

[GodZola 630]

u actually have a problem understanding that statament... UNBELIEVABLE. btw y did u stop the quoting at "are"... i ll tell u what i said next. it was "give him a respite for a game". u think thats a call to give a god like status??? (by the way try again to decode the hidden meaning in the statement, its not that difficult). few posts??? tell me a player who got half as much stick as mikel. i was stating the obvious. do u think busquets is some1 who can win barca champions league single handedly. NO. yet he is a very efficient cog in the barca wheel. does he have 10 assits or 5 goals in the season, i dont think so, yet every1 knows how important his defensive positioning and even his 6 yard passes to xavi and iniesta are. saying mikel thrives on the players around him is not an insult to him and u need to understand football better for it. not every1 in the team can be a matchwinner, some1 has to do the dirty work and for us the best option is mikel. he might not be the best in the world by some fair distance but he is not as bad and he definitely does not deserve the ridicule he is getting from his own fans.

Go away & learn English & then perhaps we might be able to hold a decent debate, I cannot decide whether you are a 10 year old, plain fucking stupid or on the wind up, but its possibly all 3! Its not just me that's tried to put something across to you civilly & also politely. You attack members by calling them hypocrites without any foundation then you show your arrogance by telling me 'to understand football' - who the fuck do you think you are, Mourinho? It's not only me that has been trying to get through to your thick skull but you just go off into your Mikel loving world & carry on ignoring what other members are saying to you.

There is so much I could reply to but I've already wasted too much time on posting to a brick wall. Do the rest of us a favour & stay on your planet - literally lost for words!!!!

[didierforever 7,349]

GodZola, on 02 Apr 2013 - 17:54, said:

Go away & learn English & then perhaps we might be able to hold a decent debate, I cannot decide whether you are a 10 year old, plain fucking stupid or on the wind up, but its possibly all 3! Its not just me that's tried to put something across to you civilly & also politely. You attack members by calling them hypocrites without any foundation then you show your arrogance by telling me 'to understand football' - who the fuck do you think you are, Mourinho? It's not only me that has been trying to get through to your thick skull but you just go off into your Mikel loving world & carry on ignoring what other members are saying to you.

There is so much I could reply to but I've already wasted too much time on posting to a brick wall. Do the rest of us a favour & stay on your planet - literally lost for words!!!!

this is a post from HUTCHO on the previous page

"Mikel is the only player who is considered one of the greatest dm's by some and terrible by others. I am not too sure he is a bit too inconsistent, but is very dependant on the man next to him. His all round game isn't as good as we would like as that would benefit our pivot much more. And if he was to play next to a proper deep lying playmaker which none of lampy Rambo or luiz are, then we may see a different mikel.

I do think he should stop shooting lol."

this is a post from skipper from the previous page

"Fixed for you. I'm in the pro-Mikel camp but Mikel's overall performances aren't that consistent IMO - regardless, I still think he's a key player in our squad. If he's surrounded by the right players Mikel is excellent. If not then he struggles."

as far as i understand it, these guys are saying the same exact thing that i said "mikel is some1 who plays well when in the right system and with the right players".different from what i said a couple of posts ago "

"someone who thrives more on the team's performance than any1 else in this squad".

so as i see it its not my arrogance thats making me say "understand football" but your absolute stupidity, your mind fucking and asenine naivety about the role of one of our most important and integral member of the squad that made me say it (see u r not the only bloody fucking asshole who can abuse instead of having a civilized debate).

also i dont see any1 else having as big a problem with me as u do, who instead of debating on what actually is relevant wants to take me down on the usage of "god like status" and the word "hypocrite" in one of my post while neglecting every thing else.

for eg - this is an exchange between me and english freak which ended in 4 posts because luckily he was not too obsessive with my exact usage of any 1 particular word or my english or my grammar.

didierforever

i was stating the obvious. do u think busquets is some1 who can win barca champions league single handedly. NO. yet he is a very efficient cog in the barca wheel. does he have 10 assits or 5 goals in the season, i dont think so, yet every1 knows how important his defensive positioning and even his 6 yard passes to xavi and iniesta are. saying mikel thrives on the players around him is not an insult to him and u need to understand football better for it. not every1 in the team can be a matchwinner, some1 has to do the dirty work and for us the best option is mikel. he might not be the best in the world by some fair distance but he is not as bad and he definitely does not deserve the ridicule he is getting from his own fans.

englishfreak

Yes, someone has to do the dirty work in midfield..but the issue with Mikel has ALWAYS been consistency.He puts in a good performance against United...then goes missing against mid-table clubs...Busquets isn't a matchwinner for Barcelona but he's a consistent player.

didierforever

i know. and thus i said he is "for us the best option is mikel" and " he might not be the best in the world by some fair distance but he is not as bad and he definitely does not deserve the ridicule he is getting from his own fans."i am under no illusion about mikel's consistency. its the extreme hatred and some of the absolute anti-mikel comments that bother me.

englishfreak

I reckon bringing in another DM is the best option for Chelsea and Mikel.That way, we'll have another option for the midfield (it'll keep the players fresh) and the new DM will be able to challenge Mikel for his first team place.

so its not very suprising to see who cant have a decent debate or who might be fucking 10, wait... 6 years old or who might be on a wind up...